sultanils From Belgium, joined Mar 2010, 1173 posts, RR: 29 Posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 18893 times:
On Sunday 24th Oct, flight TK 1937 (A343) IST-BRU was involved in an incident upon landing at BRU airport. According to the news on 'één', the aircraft has been reported hitting the runway with it's most left engine upon touchdown. The pilots kept control of the aircraft and got to the gate safely. No injuries are reported apparently but engine and runway suffered some damage. As a consequence, TK had to sent another A343 to BRU to pick up it's passengers.
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4102 posts, RR: 13 Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 18818 times:
Nothing on the Turkish websites either, probably because it is Sunday.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11705 posts, RR: 52 Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 18614 times:
incident with A340 THY this morning
by willyt » Today, 14:48
I was on the flight THY IST-BRU this morning.
Coming from DXB we had to change plane in IST. A very nice A340 with very good business class seats.
We could follow the landing on our private seat screen (plane camera) and just after lanby willytding we could follow that it went wrong and a incident (accident) was going to happen.
I am not a specialist so I can only reflect what I think that happened : I suppose the speed continued to be to high and the plane jumped (bumped) over the runway. Suddenly I think the pilot tried to exit the landing strip at a to high speed and we could follow "live" that things were going wrong and we would end at a high speed beside the landing strip (not a comfortable feeling).... Any how the pilots did succeed to get control over the situation ,and we ended really at the end what was the emergency strip.
I am not a specialist , but I suppose we must be happy that the pilots were able to save the situation.I suppose these incidents are not exceptional, but I can testify that after being FT for a long time ist was quit an experience
WT
Also, the weather doesn't seem to be bad at all.
posted by 76-er on the same web page.
Weather appeared quite reasonable for runways 25 in the morning:
tk1244 From Netherlands, joined May 2007, 311 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 12187 times:
Airporthaber published a news article about it, but not much new information.
Flight TK1937 with 180 passengers on board operated with an Airbus A340-300 (TC-JDN), landed on runway 25L at 10:00. The left engine (not told which of the two left engines) touched the runway. Minor damages to the engine. The cause of this incident is under investigation.
"The future is in the skies. For any nation that cannot defend its skies will never be confident of its future." Atatürk
pilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2498 posts, RR: 50 Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11021 times:
Hello to all...I am investigating this incident...so I would appreciate it if you could all wait for the end results, should the results be deemed ok for the public I will supply some information. It takes a while to collect and analyze the data, I doubt that someone is going to have more information than my team and I, so making things up and placing blame is useless in this situation. The eyewitness account on here has helped though so thanks.
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
nicoeddf From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1051 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 11024 times:
Quoting tk1244 (Reply 7): The left engine (not told which of the two left engines) touched the runway. Minor damages to the engine. The cause of this incident is under investigation.
I suppose its quite impossible to touch the runway with the inboard engine and not with the outboard at the same time...
Wilco777 From France, joined Oct 2010, 19 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10564 times:
Seems like turkish airline is having a bit of a hard time these days... Prior to this incident there was the near miss in London where the pilots didn't react to the Tcas alert.... mmmmmmm... not sure what to think about the skills and training of their crews even though they managed to solve the above incident.... looking forward to read the report...
pilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2498 posts, RR: 50 Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10482 times:
Quoting Wilco777 (Reply 11): Seems like turkish airline is having a bit of a hard time these days... Prior to this incident there was the near miss in London where the pilots didn't react to the Tcas alert.... mmmmmmm... not sure what to think about the skills and training of their crews even though they managed to solve the above incident.... looking forward to read the report...
I also worked on that incident...if you take the time to read the 777 report, you will clearly see that the crew received a TCAS reversal in 3 seconds to climb and descend, so your statement about the crew not following the commands is quite uncorrect. They received 3 conflicting commands due to the faulty equipment on the German aircraft. But who am I right, the people who are the farthest from these events, they know the most )
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
pilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2498 posts, RR: 50 Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 8775 times:
Quoting slz396 (Reply 14): Anyway, did you also report on the 737NG which basically stalled during an autoland at AMS because of a premature autothrottle retard due to an RA system fault while none of the 3 (!) pilots managed to do their monitoring duties correctly and simply click the TOGA buttons to initiate the go around and fly away from the crash, rather than sit idle and watch the plane flare at a couple of hundred feet???
Actually yes I was on the team that investigated that crash, and of the 3 pilots, i knew 2 of them quite well, so thanks a lot for making this into a joke I appreciate it a lot...and here are some facts for you
1. It wasn't an autoland approach
2. The RA fault wasn't reported to the pilot by the aircraft, because the aircraft deemed the faulty signal as valid...so you tell me, was there any indication to the crew of the fault? no there wasn't....
3. The pilots did fail to monitor the decreasing speed, which took 7 seconds in total
4. TOGA is not the proper move to make in this case, the Boeing company has no such procedure for a stall recovery, pressing the TOGA would have further stalled the aircraft into a trim/deep stall...but how would i know i just did the analysis right...
I would appreciate if you wouldnt be so belittleing and saying people are sitting idle....
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
bahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1727 posts, RR: 12 Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8218 times:
THY's press release reports that the captain resigned from his job as of yesterday
draigonair From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 705 posts, RR: 6 Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8141 times:
Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 14): TOGA is not the proper move to make in this case, the Boeing company has no such procedure for a stall recovery, pressing the TOGA would have further stalled the aircraft into a trim/deep stall...but how would i know i just did the analysis right...
If the PF during the stickshaker pressed toga it should clear all the active modes (flare mode which was active). It will only go in a deeper stall if you follow your FD to a higher pitch. If he pushed the TOGA and slightly lowerd the nose it should have been possible to recover the stall.
cubastar From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 370 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5170 times:
Quoting nicoeddf (Reply 9): I suppose its quite impossible to touch the runway with the inboard engine and not with the outboard at the same time...
If I recall correctly, on some aircraft the inboard engine nacelle can actually contact the runway first. The DC-8, with a hard landing and a compressed MLG strut, the inboard engine will be the one to scrape.
slz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4998 times:
Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 23): there is no such procedure...to press toga and lower the nose...toga requires Flight director obedience....you cant make hybrid procedures
My friend, you are stalling a plane at low altitude, so the only correct reaction in such a situation is to set TOGA and to make sure you pick up speed asap, even if it means disregarding the FD for a few seconds: it needn't explicitly be mentioned in the manuals, its a basic piloting skill, just as avoiding a stall in the first place in fact.
Besides, that the RA was unknowingly faulty is no excuse either: a plane entering flare mode hundreds of feet above terrain should be sufficient a clue for any pilot to understand something is most certainly wrong and so any crew member not satisfied with the behaviour or flightpath of the plane during the approach should simply call for a go around and all recall actions should then follow automatically, without questioning nor discussion. I should think that a condition where you are at idle thrust, flying below glide, being low on speed and with a too high BA for the configuration youre having on the approach is more than enough to make that call, even from the jumpseat, don't you agree? Besides, having 9 seconds of stick shaker going by without reaction is simply unbelievable! What is it they were waiting for: the position freeze of the sim?
Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 14): I would appreciate if you wouldnt be so belittleing and saying people are sitting idle
How would you call their monitoring, SOP adherance and system knowledge during the approach then? Certainly not up to normal company standards, I should hope?
acidradio From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1855 posts, RR: 11 Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4793 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Folks, this thread has become overly argumentative and has wandered off topic. I deleted several posts because they attacked a poster's professional competence, they involved other incidents with TK aircraft and didn't add anything to the discussion. Please debate the TOPIC and not the PERSON. Thank you!
nicoeddf From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1051 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4340 times:
Quoting cubastar (Reply 18): If I recall correctly, on some aircraft the inboard engine nacelle can actually contact the runway first. The DC-8, with a hard landing and a compressed MLG strut, the inboard engine will be the one to scrape.
Yeah, with bank angle = zero!
With bank angle /= zero, like, incidentally in this case of TKs 343, it seems quite impossible...
And: The MLG strut should by design NOT compress to an extend, where the inboard engine has no healthy remaining distance to the ground.
But maybe there is a grey zone in which both is possible.
In any way: You better keep the engines off the ground!
EBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 885 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4070 times:
Saw a TK A343 on the tarmac when I was on my way to the airport today - just right after you take the ramp in car for the departure area. I thought it was odd why a Turkish airbus would sit there. Must have been the plane in question. Not that odd anyway, I suppose. Hope it will be repaired and put back into service soon. TK must somehow miss it in their operations. Are they cancelling any flights due to lack of equipment?
Next flights: CPH-FRA-CPH: CPH-BKK-MNL-BKK-CPH; CPH-BRU-CPH
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4102 posts, RR: 13 Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3936 times:
I think they are sending the brand new 77W TC-JJE on its first revenue flight to BRU tomorrow.
By the way, Turkish aviation sites report that only engine #1 had scratches on it. The flight crew learned about it when told by the ground people.
I wonder why that 343 still there? Any damage pics?
I am sure with all the extra charter Hadj flights TK must miss it but I doubt that there are cancellations.
Wilco777 From France, joined Oct 2010, 19 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3791 times:
Quoting acidradio (Reply 20): Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 23):
there is no such procedure...to press toga and lower the nose...toga requires Flight director obedience....you cant make hybrid procedures
My friend, you are stalling a plane at low altitude, so the only correct reaction in such a situation is to set TOGA and to make sure you pick up speed asap, even if it means disregarding the FD for a few seconds: it needn't explicitly be mentioned in the manuals, its a basic piloting skill, just as avoiding a stall in the first place in fact.
Besides, that the RA was unknowingly faulty is no excuse either: a plane entering flare mode hundreds of feet above terrain should be sufficient a clue for any pilot to understand something is most certainly wrong and so any crew member not satisfied with the behaviour or flightpath of the plane during the approach should simply call for a go around and all recall actions should then follow automatically, without questioning nor discussion. I should think that a condition where you are at idle thrust, flying below glide, being low on speed and with a too high BA for the configuration youre having on the approach is more than enough to make that call, even from the jumpseat, don't you agree? Besides, having 9 seconds of stick shaker going by without reaction is simply unbelievable! What is it they were waiting for: the position freeze of the sim?
Quoting pilotaydin (Reply 14):
I would appreciate if you wouldnt be so belittleing and saying people are sitting idle
How would you call their monitoring, SOP adherance and system knowledge during the approach then? Certainly not up to normal company standards, I should hope?
Well said... Couldn't agree more
25 robcol99: The captain talked to the press and he pretty much told his side of the story. Took the blame, too. TC-JDN is coming back tomorrow No cancellations. T
26 BA0284: Seems like it's ferrying back today, TC-JDN just flown over MUC at 29,000 as THY6950. Would they be flying lower due to the damage on the engine? Or i
27 TK787: BRU is getting two heavies today, JJE, 777W and later today a 332, probably for Hadj.
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