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Cathay Looking At Expansion To Meet Demand  
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12519 posts, RR: 35
Posted (3 years 12 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 17697 times:

Interesting article, attached, from the HK Standard:

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_d...56&con_type=1&d_str=20101025&fc=10

- Looking to add two new destinations; not said where they will be. ORD seems a strong possibility, to tap into the AA network there?
- Looking to add a few more A350s on lease
- And ... looking at A380 freighters!

90 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1508 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 12 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 17700 times:

Interesting. I wonder if CX will take the opportunity with these new planes to install improved seating including premium economy which has been rumoured for some time..

Pax have been complaints about the existing products in both J and Y class:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/cathay-pacific-to-revamp-seating


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31117 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (3 years 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 17451 times:
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Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):
And ... looking at A380 freighters!

Is CX a big package carrier?


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1052 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 17415 times:

Is there a chance CX will serve Miami? I know officials at MIA airport have been pushing for CX service for quite some time.

User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12634 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (3 years 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 17312 times:
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Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):
- Looking to add a few more A350s on lease

Despite having 30 options for A350s, one assumes this is simply a matter of earlier delivery dates being available from leasing companies?

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):
- And ... looking at A380 freighters!

Interesting. Although I'm not sure how they can look at something that's not for sale. The fact they have 10 747-8Fs on order makes it all the more 'interesting'.   



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineminer From Brazil, joined Aug 2007, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 17270 times:

I'd love to see a MIA-HKG, but at 14,468 km over the polar route, that'd be a loooong flight. But before MIA, we'll see ORD-HKG first in my opinion. And CX should start dipping its foot in S. America as it seems to be attracting some key players from Asia and the Middle East like SQ, QR and EK. Does it have any 5th freedom rights to stretch a flight out of Europe Canada or US to GRU or EZE ?

User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4069 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 17193 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
Is CX a big package carrier?

When I read that, three things came to mind...
-CX does carry a lot of small electronics shipped from China to Europe and the US already in their retail packaging. Not quite a package carrier per say, but it's kinda close, so maybe they could fill out an A380 and not be weight limited like most other cargo carriers would be...
-CX does own 60% of Air Hong Kong, one of DHL's carriers. Perhaps the A380s would be painted canary yellow...

But the third one is... why?!?
CX isn't a package carrier, they do carry quite a few things beyond small electronics, it would be a rather small subfleet and I don't know that Airbus would be willing to resuscitate the A380F for a few units. As for DHL, usually DHL makes fleet decisions then finds an operator, they don't go an ask an operator to look into a new type for them.

So I find that comment very puzzling. If anything, I'd be more willing to believe someone forgot their glasses and read an 8 where a 3 was, and that CX is looking into the A330F. Cathay has used its pax A330s in freight-only mode in the past (no passenger, hold full of freight), so adding "real" A330 freighters seems more likely than the A380F, I think.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1052 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 17078 times:

Quoting miner (Reply 5):

How about NRT/ICN-MIA? Is any East Asian destination a possibility out of MIA?


User currently offlineFoxThree From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (3 years 12 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 17053 times:

They could have also meant the A350-900F, which per Wikipedia is scheduled to enter service in 2017.

User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (3 years 12 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 17055 times:
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Quoting miner (Reply 5):
And CX should start dipping its foot in S. America as it seems to be attracting some key players from Asia and the Middle East like SQ, QR and EK. Does it have any 5th freedom rights to stretch a flight out of Europe Canada or US to GRU or EZE ?

CX already has a presence in South America since Cathay Pacific Airways and LAN Airlines entered into a code-share agreement last May. CX code-shares with its fellow OneWorld Alliance partner LAN Airlines on certain routes. LAN places its code on CX operated flights at AKL, JFK and LAX. CX places its code on LAN's SCL-AKL, SCL-JFK, SCL-LIM-JFK, and SCL-LIM-LAX flights.

Flights operated by LAN Airlines that CX code-shares on:
CX7800 AKL-SCL
CX7801 SCL-AKL
CX7810 SCL-LIM-LAX
CX7811 LAX-LIM-SCL
CX7820 SCL-LIM-JFK
CX7821 JFK-LIM-SCL
CX7822 SCL-JFK
CX7823 JFK-SCL


User currently offlinemfe777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 12 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16954 times:

I've got my fingers crossed for DFW!!!!

User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5926 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (3 years 12 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16920 times:
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Not a whole lot of change of it happening, but I was hoping CX would consider SEA.

User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (3 years 12 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16839 times:
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Quoting mfe777 (Reply 10):
I've got my fingers crossed for DFW!!!!

IMO, HKG-ORD will commence before a possible flight to DFW. This will enable AA to increase its offer to Asia via ORD. AA operates ORD-DEL, ORD-NRT, ORD-PEK, and ORD-PVG. AA should also add new destinations to Canada from ORD, (perhaps with WS). Hopefully LAN will fly into ORD sooner rather than later since South American pax are increasingly traveling to Asia and AA already offers non-stop flights between ORD and DEL, NRT, PEK, and PVG.


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31117 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (3 years 12 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16838 times:
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Quoting blueflyer (Reply 6):
CX does carry a lot of small electronics shipped from China to Europe and the US already in their retail packaging. Not quite a package carrier per say, but it's kinda close, so maybe they could fill out an A380 and not be weight limited like most other cargo carriers would be...

Well they should be adding 777 freighters, then. It would leverage their large 77W fleet and the 77F's performance ended up being better than planned, being able to lift about 3t more payload at MZFW.


User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4787 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (3 years 12 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 16830 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
Is CX a big package carrier?
Quoting blueflyer (Reply 6):
But the third one is... why?!?
CX isn't a package carrier, they do carry quite a few things beyond small electronics, it would be a rather small subfleet and I don't know that Airbus would be willing to resuscitate the A380F for a few units.

Just as you have pointed out that CX carries a lot of "electronics" so does CI, KE, BR, CA, CZ, 2 of whom already have pax A380s on order and all of whom are major cargo carriers.

[Edited 2010-10-24 15:32:14]

User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7688 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (3 years 12 months 4 days ago) and read 16574 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 3):
Is there a chance CX will serve Miami? I know officials at MIA airport have been pushing for CX service for quite some time.

The chance of a nonstop MIA-HKG flight on any carrier is virtually zero. If CX comes to MIA, it would be as a tag on.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 7):
How about NRT/ICN-MIA? Is any East Asian destination a possibility out of MIA?

KE expressed interest in MIA a few years ago, but never showed up.

I think if MIA does get an Asia nonstop flight, it will be when the 787 comes on board.

The only new route I can see CX flying in the US is ORD.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1052 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 12 months 4 days ago) and read 16437 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 15):

Dont forget about EK. That might happen even before the 787.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7688 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (3 years 12 months 4 days ago) and read 16397 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 16):
Dont forget about EK. That might happen even before the 787.

Yeah, but I was thinking of the far east.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3768 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (3 years 12 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 16322 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 12):
IMO, HKG-ORD will commence before a possible flight to DFW. This will enable AA to increase its offer to Asia via ORD. AA operates ORD-DEL, ORD-NRT, ORD-PEK, and ORD-PVG. (perhaps with WS)

... except it might (at least initially) be on AA metal and not CX metal.
AA Considering More China Expansion (by AA787 Oct 20 2010 in Civil Aviation)

Don't get me wrong: I think CX would do great at ORD. But I think AA is best suited to start the route first. AA could do what UA and NH did on ORD-NRT: launch the route with AA, and if demand continues to exceed supply, add a CX flight.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (3 years 12 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 16157 times:
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Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 18):
But I think AA is best suited to start the route first. AA could do what UA and NH did on ORD-NRT: launch the route with AA, and if demand continues to exceed supply, add a CX flight.

AA starting ORD-HKG would be awesome as well. We will just have to wait and see who flies that route. Regardless, the more connections that OW offer to Asia via JFK, ORD and/or LAX, it would serve to increases the chances of new routes being added by other OW carriers, including AA.


User currently offlinemysterzip From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 12 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 16019 times:

There may also be a fourth JFK-HKG flight.

User currently offlineLutfi From China, joined Sep 2000, 778 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 12 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 16013 times:

Cathay already flies to MIA & DFW (and also ATL & IAH). CX074/071 operates via Anchorage to MIA, and CX090/091 to DFW. Freighters, but why is always the assumption that only passenger services "count"?

CX cargo destinations in US, that don't have pax flights:
ANC
IAH
MIA
ATL
DFW
ORD

Plus freighters go to SFO/JFK/LAX, so it is an extensive network - 9 cities


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (3 years 12 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 15965 times:
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Quoting Lutfi (Reply 21):
Cathay already flies to MIA & DFW (and also ATL & IAH). CX074/071 operates via Anchorage to MIA, and CX090/091 to DFW. Freighters, but why is always the assumption that only passenger services "count"?

Great point! CX and KE already operate into MIA via their cargo units. At MIA, LAN Cargo has the largest cargo facility owned by a foreign carrier in the U.S. operating flights to Mexico, Central America, the Caribbean, South America, Europe, etc.


User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12519 posts, RR: 35
Reply 23, posted (3 years 12 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 15774 times:

More info here on the A380/748i choice and frankly, I think it has to be a "must win" for the 748 - though I think the A380 is the more likely choice. Note the reference to "substantial numbers" ... and the lack of any reference to the A380F.

I can only imagine the HK Standard got it wrong ...

http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engine...+AtwDailyNews+%28ATW+Daily+News%29


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3790 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (3 years 12 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 15748 times:

It's good that this article is sparking a small discussion here, but in all honesty, I wouldn't give much credit to the accuracy or even veracity of that kind of article in The Standard...

That said, ORD is something that could very well happen and leasing a few extra A350s is not very far fetched either.

A380F I find much less credible, but stranger things have happened.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
25 behramjee : I've always wondered why CX is not in Manchester? Yes it was going to be flown in 2006 via DME but cant they operate it without any concerns nonstop?[
26 columba : I would say this is a typo and that they are really looking at A330s.
27 HB-IWC : I would expect Manchester and Madrid to be two destinations the airline is definitely looking at in terms of Europe expansion.
28 cloudyapple : If I owned 60% of a company I'd want a say in how it is run. Remember who is boss here. I agree this is possible. But with all the B748Fs I don't see
29 ChopChop767 : I would be, like many others here on the forum, surprised if Cathay did not commence ORD service. A relative was on UAs flight to HKG from ORD last we
30 Kappel : I agree with others that the Standard got something wrong here. My take is that they are looking at the a380 as well as additional freighters. But th
31 blueflyer : You are probably right. I was trying to understand where the A380F mention came from, not necessarily making the case for it. I don't forget who is b
32 FlyCaledonian : So, what if from this article CX was now considering the A380-800 (despite saying it'd only consider the A380-900)? How does the A380 fair on belly ca
33 Baroque : Well it might be a misprint, or it might be that if the A380 has had a chat with Lazarus, the A380F-RA (Risen Again) may differ in a number of respec
34 as739x : There is not enough traffic HKG-MIA that couldn't be routed via LAX/SFO/JFK or ORD if launched.
35 Burkhard : While I admit that the likeliehood of a misprint is near to 99%, a leak that DHL wants many A380F to swap away competition would be a very nice dream.
36 na : I would very much understand a A380 -pax because CX is in need of a new VLA soon, but a A380F, whats that for? Expansion beyond 2018, or what? I guess
37 aerokiwi : And there it is again - that old Anet myth of more passengers equals more profit. Besides, doesn't CX have something like 36 77Ws planned, far in exc
38 wedgetail737 : If CX were to start pax service to MIA, they should route it through Canada so they can have local traffic.
39 Stitch : Airbus would have to upgrade the structure (especially on the upper deck) to allow the aircraft to be fully loaded at 160kg/m3, which is going to add
40 kaitak : I guess the thing about the A380 is that it may have potential as a freighter, BUT for an airline which already has 748Fs on order, it would need a MA
41 na : Thats not a myth - the opposite is!
42 Rheinbote : Well, who said they are looking for freighters...
43 Stitch : The article referenced by the OP:
44 Post contains images PlaneHunter : Hopefully they read a.net, otherwise they are doomed... It's not a myth - didn't you notice these hundreds of A380s orders in the recent months? PH
45 trex8 : Any of the possible interpretations of the "A380F " may be possible. An A330 freighter is something CX could use on regional routes, look at Air HK us
46 Stitch : At sea-level in "normal" ambients, the 777-300ER lifts more payload than a 747-400 and flies it farther. Where it suffers is from high altitudes, hig
47 aerokiwi : So you're saying that 'less passengers equals less profit' is a myth? Which is just another way of saying 'more passengers equals more profit' is a m
48 francoflier : Tony Tyler said, in the ATW article posted somewhere above: "Cathay will need a bigger aircraft" for capacity-restrained airports such as Heathrow. B
49 Post contains links trex8 : well here's a different take on A380s and CX, from SCMP (subscription required) http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCMP...0a0a0aRCRD&ss=Companies&
50 mogandoCI : Chicago - agree Muscat - nah wet dream here AUH - maybe, given that CX services SO MANY middle eastern destinations like Jeddah and Bahrain ! MAN - t
51 Post contains links keesje : October 25, 2010 Tyler noted CX would not be ordering a token number of super jumbos. "You have to order a sensible number to get the best deals and
52 QFA787380 : And wouldn't economy of scale favour the 748I here, as they already have 10 748Fs on firm order?
53 Post contains images EPA001 : Maybe so, but I would guess not. Now we will only know this for sure once Airbus releases the official envisioned performance data for the A350-1000,
54 MarcoPoloWorld : This statement is puzzling. Wouldn't both the B748i and the A388 be more than comfortably capable of doing this mission, even with the fiercest of he
55 Stitch : SQ had some worries about HKG-LAX/SFO with the A380 when winds were poor, but by the time the A380 had completed her route proving, those worries wer
56 CX Flyboy : Actually, figures from the company show that the 380 cannot fly LAX-HKG non-stop in winter months with a full pax and cargo payload. Having said that
57 AADC10 : Absolutely. The airlines over the last few years have proven that taking passenger capacity off the table has improved yields and therefore profits.
58 cloudyapple : That's why I put them on the same line - they would be tagged if launched. Cathay has never been adventurous. We'll see what happens in a few month's
59 francoflier : You completely forget to mention organic growth. The world is growing, and the amount of people who can afford air travel is fast increasing, especia
60 Glareskin : Growing demand, the bridge between China and the rest of the world..... I cannot see CX not ordering the A380. Too bad we won't be able to see the bea
61 keesje : Apparently Tyler neither. I always found the theories of Airlines with strong Asia focus like CX, UA, DL, BA replacing their full 744's on booming sl
62 Post contains images MarcoPoloWorld : Thank you both for helping clarify the range issue! Same here.
63 QFA787380 : I always found the theories of Airlines with strong Asia focus like CX, UA, DL, BA replacing their full 744's on booming slot restrained Asian destina
64 francoflier : Again, Tyler has mentioned that CX will need bigger aircrafts. Either the 748i or the A380. It's not a theory, it will happen. The only question is w
65 HUYfan : How about Dammam in Saudi? They already do JED and RUH as well as DXB and BAH. Cathay flew to DMM for many years. Regards Mike
66 Post contains links keesje : You surprise me, how can you (or anybody) be so sure? Remember BA not needing the A380, remember CX not needing anything bigger then 777W? Only few a
67 sydaircargo : well you can load a 20" unit through the side door of a 747F / 77F and most likely also A380F (if ever build) no realy need of a nose loader.
68 aerokiwi : I don't think the issue is the nose-door. It's whether CX carries the kind of freight that maxes out the aircraft in weight before volume. Though cor
69 keesje : From what I remember the 747-8F has a small load intensity advantage over the A380 maindeck, so load aA380 pallet has a little lower max. So should b
70 trex8 : Do 744BCFs have the same main floor loading capacity as a 744F?
71 Stitch : They do aft of the forward wing root (BS 1000 to BS 2360). Between the front of the plane (BS21) and Doors 1L/R (BS 525), the loading is 15 pounds pe
72 Glareskin : OK, i'll buy that part. But the rest of the story is your own theory. Because they also openly admit now that they need more capacity due to growth a
73 GlobalCabotage : I've heard from friends at AA HQ that CX will finally announce ORD in the next 2 weeks with a start date in April or May 2011. The only thing holding
74 davs5032 : I disagree. Although the A380 is by no means a long shot, don't you think it matters that CX already has 40+ 747's in their fleet? From their standpo
75 kaitak : I didn't think it was that many, but even if it is, I don't think it counts for much; they once had over 20 Tristars, a good few CV880s and Electras,
76 QFA787380 : I would still actually argue that it's marginal whether CX needs VLAs. I can only see a real need at LHR and would they buy VLAs in small numbers for
77 FWAERJ : Maybe Boeing has a corporate contract with AA and wants ORD-HKG flown on AA metal and not CX metal?
78 commavia : Not that I'm any legal expert, but wouldn't it be illegal for CX to be telling AA - absent ATI - about its schedule plans before they are announced p
79 Stitch : I take it this is that Boeing can't get CX the new 77Ws they will need to launch the service?
80 trex8 : Well back in the L1011/707/CV880 days of CX, they got the 747 for LHR!
81 QFA787380 : That was for range purposes as much as anything else. IIRC, CX weren't an early customer for the 747 and if 350s and 777s were around then, would the
82 CCA : But that was because nothing in the fleet had the range to fly to LHR.
83 trex8 : They could have gone for DC10s or L1011-500s if it was just range they needed .
84 francoflier : You completely misunderestimate the role of the jumbos in CX. The 747 has been an indispensable workhorse for them for decades. They were one of the
85 QFA787380 : Why haven't they ordered 380s yet? Why are they keen to get details of 777 enhancements from Boeing? Why did they not procure 380s when they just ord
86 francoflier : First of all, I am not talking about the A380, but rather any so called 'super jumbo', as in: either the A380 or the 748. They are looking for enhanc
87 QFA787380 : What do you think CX has in mind for it's 77W/350 fleet? Of course, a major push will be to fragment Europe and offer new destinations, previously de
88 col : I think you will find that they got them originally for LGW.
89 tayser : haven't/aren't CX about to go 10x weekly on PER-HKG (previously 7x weekly)?
90 gkirk : And I believe MAN was the first UK destination to see the 744
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