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Why Are Some Aeroflot Aircraft Reg'd In Bermuda?  
User currently offlineNumero4 From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 260 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14172 times:

I noticed that the Boeing and Airbus aircraft operated by Aeroflot wear tail numbers with the VQ- or VB- prefixes while Tupolev and Ilyushin-built ones are registered in Russia.

What is the explanation behind this?

Many thanks,
--Etienne


CYQB
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinemacsog6 From Singapore, joined Jan 2010, 525 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14161 times:
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Perhaps they are owned by leasing companies that are registered in Bermuda?


Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
User currently offlineAAairplane From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14153 times:

Maybe its for the same reason cruise ships are registered in the Bahamas or Panama......lower taxes.

AA



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User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2674 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14101 times:

At one time Russia charged horrendous fees to import an airliner. They may still do this today, I'm not too sure. To get around this, Aeroflot set up a leasing company in Bermuda to purchase the planes and then lease them to Aeroflot.

User currently offlinelostturttle From Bermuda, joined Dec 2006, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 13912 times:

From Bermuda's point of view...............$10 million - with projections up to $20 million dollars per year from it's Aircraft Registry, this registry has been in effect since 1931!

"Bermuda’s lucrative aircraft registry has come under scruntiny, with the UK appearing to be looking closely at the practice.

The UK’s attention seems to have been drawn by Bermuda registered aircraft that are in use by Russian airlines.

The Aircraft Registry operates like the Registration of Shipping or Maritime Registry. The Maritime Registry means that a ship claims that its home port is Bermuda, and is supposed to follow and meet Bermuda maritime or marine regulations.

Following a dispute with the United Kingdom Government over Bermuda Aircraft Registry, Premier Dr Ewart Brown will be flying to Russia next week, and will be discussing matters of aviation with the Russian authorities."

http://bernews.com/2010/05/russian-tussle-bermuda-vs-united-kingdom/

Also have look at the related posts..............

This might also prove to be an interesting read

http://www.conyersdill.com/uploadedfiles/Article%20014.pdf


User currently offlineNumero4 From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13617 times:

It makes sense.   Thanks all for the info, esp. lostturtle for throwing extras.


CYQB
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12411 posts, RR: 37
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13526 times:

That meeting was (between the Bermuda PM and the Russians) supposed to be in May; I wonder what the outcome was?

I thought that another factor behind the use of VP-B registrations is that if the aircraft has a Russian registration and an airline defaults, there's precious little the lessor can do; it's easier if the airline is using a Bermuda registration. Aeroflot isn't the only Russian airline to use Bermudan registrations.


User currently offlineDUSdude From United States of America, joined May 2007, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 12684 times:

Quoting bohica (Reply 3):
At one time Russia charged horrendous fees to import an airliner. They may still do this today, I'm not too sure. To get around this, Aeroflot set up a leasing company in Bermuda to purchase the planes and then lease them to Aeroflot.

This is correct. It was a poor and heavy-handed attempt at protectionism for the domestic Russian aircraft industry, which - *Surprise! * - didn't quite work as well as intended. Instead of forcing Russian airlines to buy Russian-made aircraft by imposing punitively high tariffs on purchases of foreign-made aircraft, Russian airlines instead registered all their Boeings and Airbuses abroad and leased them back. Take a look e.g. also at Transaero's aircraft. All their Boeings and Airbuses have Irish or Bermuda regs.


User currently offlineSFO2SVO From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 398 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 12438 times:

I think VIM is the only Russian airline registering their non-russian built planes in Russia.

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User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6075 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 12365 times:
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Quoting macsog6 (Reply 1):
Perhaps they are owned by leasing companies that are registered in Bermuda?


Exactly...

TWA had an MD-80 registered in Ireland. It was the MD-80 that was paid for by employees.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineLarshjort From Denmark, joined Dec 2007, 1434 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 12222 times:

Quoting SFO2SVO (Reply 8):
I think VIM is the only Russian airline registering their non-russian built planes in Russia.

While not an airline, 2nd Sverdlovsk Air Enterprise and Dexter has their PC-12s on russian register.

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User currently offlinecodeshare From Poland, joined Sep 2002, 1854 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 12138 times:

Also large duty on foreign aircraft.

KS/codeshare



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User currently offlineAeroflot001 From Argentina, joined Oct 2009, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10325 times:

So does this mean that the small square flag next to the registration isnt a Russian one?

User currently offlinetk1244 From Netherlands, joined May 2007, 330 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9886 times:

Can this be the reason why Air Astana's planes are registered in Aruba (P4-xxx)?


"The future is in the skies. For any nation that cannot defend its skies will never be confident of its future." Atatürk
User currently offline787KQ From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8939 times:

It could also be that their aircraft are financed internationally. If so, Bermuda is a convenient place to register the aircraft, where the law is well understood. International lenders, like many of the Export-Import Banks, register aircraft in a predictable offshore location for ease of taking possession of the asset if necessary. Taxes may also play a role.

User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1397 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8422 times:

Quoting bohica (Reply 3):
At one time Russia charged horrendous fees to import an airliner. They may still do this today, I'm not too sure.

Yes that's the reason.

These import fees have been mostly abolished in spring/summer, i'm not too sure but it could be that only in the 180-215 seats category they're still obliged. I can't find at the moment this news report but i'll have a look.



Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1397 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8410 times:

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 15):
I can't find at the moment this news report but i'll have a look.
http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90777/90853/7083198.html this is the best I could find at the moment.



Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1799 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8378 times:
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Quoting DUSdude (Reply 7):
Take a look e.g. also at Transaero's aircraft. All their Boeings and Airbuses have Irish or Bermuda regs.

On a related point quite a number of Alitalia aircraft are EI-xxx registered....


User currently offlineSSTsomeday From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 1276 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8326 times:

Quoting AAairplane (Reply 2):
Maybe its for the same reason cruise ships are registered in the Bahamas or Panama......lower taxes.

However - do these foreign registered ships, more importantly, not maintain the same operational and safety requirements? I realize that this is perhaps controlled by an international body - but I wonder how much foreign ships based in obscure countries can buck the system?

Is it the same for A/C?

I worked on a cruise ship (that subsequently burned and sunk in a horrendous fire a few years later. During my tenure, the ship basically sailed of out Tampa daily, and anchored just outside of American waters so that people could gamble all day. On the way back there was dinner and a show.

However, worthy of note, the ship had to make one port of call visit outside of the U.S. every month to support/protect/maintain it's foreign registry. Ergo, we took a welcome monthly cruise to Cozumel. The ship was not in great condition. It already experienced a fire and 3 weeks out of commission while I was on it; somber precursor of what was the disaster in store for her. My sense was that the ship's condition could be harkened back to not being in the U.S.

Would that be the same situation for these foreign registered Aeroflot A/C?



I come in peace
User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1397 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8302 times:

Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 18):
Would that be the same situation for these foreign registered Aeroflot A/C?

I think these requirements are different.

None of the VQ and VP planes are ever in Bermuda, they're maintained in Russia and the Netherlands and have MAK as their overseeing body I suppose.

Oh and let's not focus on Aeroflot only, many airlines operating in Russia use the VQ and VP registrations for their Boeings and Airbuses.

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 17):
On a related point quite a number of Alitalia aircraft are EI-xxx registered....

Difference between on one side the VQ -and VP- and on the other side the EI- registrations is I thought that the VQ and VP are tax-avoidance registrations, whereas the EI- are because of the lessor is located in Ireland.



Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5621 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 8192 times:

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 19):
None of the VQ and VP planes are ever in Bermuda, they're maintained in Russia and the Netherlands and have MAK as their overseeing body I suppose.

The airworthiness oversight body for ALL aircraft is the national airworthiness authority for the country of nationality, ie in the case of VP-B registered aircraft it is the Bermuda authorities.

The situation referred to with Aeroflot and other similar instances must be agreed to by the certifying body of the airlines nationality. So in this case I assume the relevant Russian authority (MAK?) have agreed to VP-B registered aircraft being operated by Russian certified airlines. They presumably have some agreement with the Bermuda authorities that satisfies them. Not all national airworthiness authorities will agree to this.

Gemuser



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User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1397 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8114 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 20):
They presumably have some agreement with the Bermuda authorities that satisfies them.

Yes, you are correct.

They have an agreement on the basis of Article 83 bis, Convention on International Civil Aviation between the Government of Bermuda and Russian Federation concluded in 1999.



Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
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