bohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 16880 times:
At one time Russia charged horrendous fees to import an airliner. They may still do this today, I'm not too sure. To get around this, Aeroflot set up a leasing company in Bermuda to purchase the planes and then lease them to Aeroflot.
lostturttle From Bermuda, joined Dec 2006, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 16691 times:
From Bermuda's point of view...............$10 million - with projections up to $20 million dollars per year from it's Aircraft Registry, this registry has been in effect since 1931!
"Bermuda’s lucrative aircraft registry has come under scruntiny, with the UK appearing to be looking closely at the practice.
The UK’s attention seems to have been drawn by Bermuda registered aircraft that are in use by Russian airlines.
The Aircraft Registry operates like the Registration of Shipping or Maritime Registry. The Maritime Registry means that a ship claims that its home port is Bermuda, and is supposed to follow and meet Bermuda maritime or marine regulations.
Following a dispute with the United Kingdom Government over Bermuda Aircraft Registry, Premier Dr Ewart Brown will be flying to Russia next week, and will be discussing matters of aviation with the Russian authorities."
kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 13014 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 16305 times:
That meeting was (between the Bermuda PM and the Russians) supposed to be in May; I wonder what the outcome was?
I thought that another factor behind the use of VP-B registrations is that if the aircraft has a Russian registration and an airline defaults, there's precious little the lessor can do; it's easier if the airline is using a Bermuda registration. Aeroflot isn't the only Russian airline to use Bermudan registrations.
DUSdude From United States of America, joined May 2007, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 15463 times:
Quoting bohica (Reply 3): At one time Russia charged horrendous fees to import an airliner. They may still do this today, I'm not too sure. To get around this, Aeroflot set up a leasing company in Bermuda to purchase the planes and then lease them to Aeroflot.
This is correct. It was a poor and heavy-handed attempt at protectionism for the domestic Russian aircraft industry, which - *Surprise! * - didn't quite work as well as intended. Instead of forcing Russian airlines to buy Russian-made aircraft by imposing punitively high tariffs on purchases of foreign-made aircraft, Russian airlines instead registered all their Boeings and Airbuses abroad and leased them back. Take a look e.g. also at Transaero's aircraft. All their Boeings and Airbuses have Irish or Bermuda regs.
787KQ From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 549 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 11718 times:
It could also be that their aircraft are financed internationally. If so, Bermuda is a convenient place to register the aircraft, where the law is well understood. International lenders, like many of the Export-Import Banks, register aircraft in a predictable offshore location for ease of taking possession of the asset if necessary. Taxes may also play a role.
Severnaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1465 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 11201 times:
Quoting bohica (Reply 3): At one time Russia charged horrendous fees to import an airliner. They may still do this today, I'm not too sure.
Yes that's the reason.
These import fees have been mostly abolished in spring/summer, i'm not too sure but it could be that only in the 180-215 seats category they're still obliged. I can't find at the moment this news report but i'll have a look.
SSTsomeday From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 11105 times:
Quoting AAairplane (Reply 2): Maybe its for the same reason cruise ships are registered in the Bahamas or Panama......lower taxes.
However - do these foreign registered ships, more importantly, not maintain the same operational and safety requirements? I realize that this is perhaps controlled by an international body - but I wonder how much foreign ships based in obscure countries can buck the system?
Is it the same for A/C?
I worked on a cruise ship (that subsequently burned and sunk in a horrendous fire a few years later. During my tenure, the ship basically sailed of out Tampa daily, and anchored just outside of American waters so that people could gamble all day. On the way back there was dinner and a show.
However, worthy of note, the ship had to make one port of call visit outside of the U.S. every month to support/protect/maintain it's foreign registry. Ergo, we took a welcome monthly cruise to Cozumel. The ship was not in great condition. It already experienced a fire and 3 weeks out of commission while I was on it; somber precursor of what was the disaster in store for her. My sense was that the ship's condition could be harkened back to not being in the U.S.
Would that be the same situation for these foreign registered Aeroflot A/C?
Severnaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1465 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 11081 times:
Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 18): Would that be the same situation for these foreign registered Aeroflot A/C?
I think these requirements are different.
None of the VQ and VP planes are ever in Bermuda, they're maintained in Russia and the Netherlands and have MAK as their overseeing body I suppose.
Oh and let's not focus on Aeroflot only, many airlines operating in Russia use the VQ and VP registrations for their Boeings and Airbuses.
Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 17): On a related point quite a number of Alitalia aircraft are EI-xxx registered....
Difference between on one side the VQ -and VP- and on the other side the EI- registrations is I thought that the VQ and VP are tax-avoidance registrations, whereas the EI- are because of the lessor is located in Ireland.
gemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 6117 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 10971 times:
Quoting Severnaya (Reply 19): None of the VQ and VP planes are ever in Bermuda, they're maintained in Russia and the Netherlands and have MAK as their overseeing body I suppose.
The airworthiness oversight body for ALL aircraft is the national airworthiness authority for the country of nationality, ie in the case of VP-B registered aircraft it is the Bermuda authorities.
The situation referred to with Aeroflot and other similar instances must be agreed to by the certifying body of the airlines nationality. So in this case I assume the relevant Russian authority (MAK?) have agreed to VP-B registered aircraft being operated by Russian certified airlines. They presumably have some agreement with the Bermuda authorities that satisfies them. Not all national airworthiness authorities will agree to this.