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US Airways Long-haul Aircraft Orders  
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 18037 times:

I was just reading about US Airways aircraft orders. They have 18 A332s, and 22 A-350s on order. Some of the A332s will replace the old 762 fleet of 10. But what is US Airways going to do with all of these new longhaul aircraft? It seems like we can expect a lot of expansion in the next few years for an airline that A.netters routinely predict the demise of.

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3402 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 17922 times:

They have used their recently delivered A332's to expand to TLV and substantially expand internationally out of CLT. However, they have defferred the rest of the A332's for quite some time (At least a few years) So unless something changes (doubtful) I doubt you'll see much more expansion

User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5654 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 17883 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Thread starter):
It seems like we can expect a lot of expansion in the next few years for an airline that A.netters routinely predict the demise of.

Well, I say nuts to them!

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 1):
However, they have defferred the rest of the A332's for quite some time (At least a few years)

Indeed, we might see some good expansion news perhaps after 2012.



Next trip: SLC-DEN-SLC-PHX-JFK-LAX-SLC with my wife and oldest daughter. F9 to and from DEN, US to JFK, AA 321 and CR7
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3058 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 17751 times:

No more A332s till I think 2012. 25 A320 series next year though, so about 2 a month.


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5654 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 17683 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 3):
No more A332s till I think 2012. 25 A320 series next year though, so about 2 a month

Cactus can do quite a bit with those A320's if you think about it. I'm looking forward to hearing what's in store.



Next trip: SLC-DEN-SLC-PHX-JFK-LAX-SLC with my wife and oldest daughter. F9 to and from DEN, US to JFK, AA 321 and CR7
User currently offlinewn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 17482 times:

Last I heard there are supposed to be 12 A320-series (mostly A321?) deliveries next year unless plans have changed again. The next 5 A332s are scheduled for 2013.


Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3058 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 17374 times:

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 4):
Cactus can do quite a bit with those A320's if you think about it. I'm looking forward to hearing what's in store.

Yeah, but I think they will be used to replace some of the 733s.

Quoting wn676 (Reply 5):
Last I heard there are supposed to be 12 A320-series (mostly A321?) deliveries next year unless plans have changed again.

25 A320-series, Im not sure of the A332 deliveries, I just hope they will use one to fly to CAI!



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 17237 times:

But still, 40 longhaul aircraft on order (and only 10 that need replacing, some of which might be replaced by A-321s as well) means a lot of expansion in the next few years! Continental's entire long-haul fleet is about 40 aircraft (well I guess all of the 752s flying across the pond count too, so more than 40)...This seems like a lot for US Airways.

User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1305 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 17092 times:

They are not taking 25 A320s next year....

They are taking 12 A321s next year on the west side. These 12 aircraft will replace the 12 733s on the west side. So a net of 0 for 2011


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 16945 times:

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 8):

They are taking 12 A321s next year on the west side. These 12 aircraft will replace the 12 733s on the west side. So a net of 0 for 2011

Yes and no. The 321 has 49 more seats than the West 733s. The 737 routes will be replaced by 319s and 320s currently in service elsewhere, and some of the routes those planes serve will be upgraded.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6887 posts, RR: 63
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 16857 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Thread starter):
They have 18 A332s, and 22 A-350s on order.

Ten of those A330s will almost certainly never be delivered. They are part of an old order for A330s with PW. The seven A330-200s delivered (and the other eight still to come) comprised two orders (for 10 and for 5) with RR and placed in 2007.

The A350s are scheduled for delivery in the 2014-2017 period so it'll will still be quite a while before all this additional capacity comes on line.


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2864 posts, RR: 30
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16667 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Thread starter):
They have 18 A332s, and 22 A-350s on order.

Wow! I never knew US had so many heavy jets on order. Just 10 years ago, the airline only had 10 widebody jets in its whole fleet (the first A330s were delivered in 2000). Quite impressive growth thus far and well into the future, if I do say so myself.

Quoting washingtonian (Thread starter):
Some of the A332s will replace the old 762 fleet of 10.

The 762s aren't the newest planes out there, but those 204 seat birds fill an invaluable niche (in terms of capacity AND range) between the 176/190 seat 752s and 258 seat 332s. FYI, the 190 seat 752s are the old HP a/c serving PHX-Hawaii, so in terms of transatlantic, Caribbean, and Latin America out of PHL/CLT, in terms of seat count its either 176 or 258 without the 767 in the picture. That's an awfully big jump.

I think for the time being, the 767 will continue to be used to develop new European markets outside 757 range, facilitate the transition from 757 to A330 on established transatlantic sectors, and successfully enter new South American markets. Then, in its twilight years, the plane will be perfect for stuff like PHX-Hawaii and PHL-Caribbean. As we all know you can easily fill big planes but don't need to be flying state of the art planes on popular routes like those  .

Quoting washingtonian (Thread starter):
But what is US Airways going to do with all of these new longhaul aircraft?

Grow! US Airways has built up a very impressive transatlantic network throughout the past decade, and in recent years they have made successful forays into the Middle East (TLV) and South America (GIG) for the first time in their history. We already know that GRU and NRT are in the cards, and I daresay the airline will also be serving Buenos Aires, Moscow, Istanbul, Cairo, Dubai, Beijing, and Shanghai within 10 years. 10 years ago, nobody would have imagined US serving Tel Aviv or Rio...

Quoting washingtonian (Thread starter):
It seems like we can expect a lot of expansion in the next few years for an airline that A.netters routinely predict the demise of.

It's really sad how so many a.netters are jaded and/or hyper-critical of every carrier other than their favorite. US is not SQ or EK, and they never will be. But they tend to have newer, cleaner planes than UA, AA, or DL, and they've made a remarkable turnaround in the past few years. I hope they are able to keep up the great work!

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 1):
They have used their recently delivered A332's to expand to TLV and substantially expand internationally out of CLT.

The A332s also can just be an "upgrade" for 762 routes, thus freeing up the latter for new routes like CLT-GIG!

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 3):
25 A320 series next year though, so about 2 a month.

Wow! That's a lot of new planes. Though, I'm sure they are eager to dump the rest of their aging 737s. Probably not planes for growth by any means.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 6):
Im not sure of the A332 deliveries, I just hope they will use one to fly to CAI!

I think CAI could happen in the next 3-5 years. DL has spent years building up JFK-CAI to a daily year-round service, and I'm sure US will patiently let UA/CO's new EWR-CAI develop before starting anything of its own. I was amazed to see so few Americans in Egypt when I visited there in 2008, and it seems like most Americans that have gone to Egypt have only done so because they were studying abroad or working in Europe, from which it is an easy short-haul trip. The country is rich in culture and a great place to visit - hopefully more n/s flights will make it an easier and cheaper place to visit!

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 7):
But still, 40 longhaul aircraft on order (and only 10 that need replacing, some of which might be replaced by A-321s as well) means a lot of expansion in the next few years!

It's not as if all 40 planes show up at once; in fact, they probably will arrive over a 10-15 year period, and could be deferred further if a future recession ensues. The A321 is NOT a suitable replacement for the 762 as it does not have the latter's range. The A321 can only replace the 762 on domestic (hub-hub, transcons, etc.) and Caribbean routes but has largely done so already. I think future A321s will really only be used to upgrade popular mid-range domestic routes like ORD-PHX and PHL-MIA.

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 7):
Continental's entire long-haul fleet is about 40 aircraft (well I guess all of the 752s flying across the pond count too, so more than 40)...This seems like a lot for US Airways.

Let's not forget where Continental was in the early 90s - bankruptcy. Before they got those 767s and 777s in the late 90s and early 2000s, their only long-haul planes were those venerable DC-10s. It's not surprising that they have a relatively modest widebody flight only ~10-15 years later. They never had the massive fleets that UA, AA, DL, etc. had.

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 8):

They are taking 12 A321s next year on the west side. These 12 aircraft will replace the 12 733s on the west side. So a net of 0 for 2011

What about the east side?

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 9):
The 737 routes will be replaced by 319s and 320s currently in service elsewhere, and some of the routes those planes serve will be upgraded.

Before HP started serving Hawaii they put their 757s on stuff like PHX-ORD and PHX-JFK. I think these are the types of routes that could see A321s, and the 319s/320s on them now can replace the 737s that still fly out of PHX.

Quoting PM (Reply 10):
Ten of those A330s will almost certainly never be delivered. They are part of an old order for A330s with PW. The seven A330-200s delivered (and the other eight still to come) comprised two orders (for 10 and for 5) with RR and placed in 2007.

Is that really a huge deal? I understand engine commonality is important but in this day and age of mergers and used a/c acquisitions its common to add different types when necessary (i.e. CO taking the old TZ 753s).



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6887 posts, RR: 63
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 16458 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
Is that really a huge deal? I understand engine commonality is important but in this day and age of mergers and used a/c acquisitions its common to add different types when necessary

Quite true. But I think what is relevant is that US ordered RR-powered A330-200s and effectively leap-frogged an earlier order for PW-powered A330-200s. It's at least possible to interpret that to mean that US no longer want A330s with PW. There have certainly been stories that they have been disappointed with their PW4000s.


User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5654 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13630 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 6):
Yeah, but I think they will be used to replace some of the 733s.

Indeed, some of those 733's are also some of the first ones off the line, arent they?



Next trip: SLC-DEN-SLC-PHX-JFK-LAX-SLC with my wife and oldest daughter. F9 to and from DEN, US to JFK, AA 321 and CR7
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6751 posts, RR: 32
Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13499 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
Just 10 years ago, the airline only had 10 widebody jets in its whole fleet (the first A330s were delivered in 2000).

The US Airways fleet of 767's stood at 12, not 10, when the A333's started to arrive.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
Before they got those 767s and 777s in the late 90s and early 2000s, their only long-haul planes were those venerable DC-10s.

Continental also operated 4 747-200's at Continental Micronesia through the late 1990's (the last was retired in 1999). The 777's began to arrive before the 747's left the fleet.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
Then, in its twilight years, the plane will be perfect for stuff like PHX-Hawaii and PHL-Caribbean. As we all know you can easily fill big planes but don't need to be flying state of the art planes on popular routes like those

The 767-200 might work for PHX-Hawaii, but the A321 can do PHL-Caribbean far more cost-effectively. The 762 really doesn't offer a lot more seats than the 752, so the 752 is better-suited for PHX-Hawaii if they're still in the fleet. I can see the 757's sticking around longer than the 767's, actually.


User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1305 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 13450 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
What about the east side?

No deliveries on the east side for 2011.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 9):
Yes and no. The 321 has 49 more seats than the West 733s. The 737 routes will be replaced by 319s and 320s currently in service elsewhere, and some of the routes those planes serve will be upgraded.

Parker/Kirby said that even though they are replacing 12 733s with 12 321s, ASMs will be flat for next year. However that could still equate to very minimal growth.

Personally I think most of the new 321s will be used (obviously with west crews) to upgrade current east flying or transcons out of PHL/CLT instead of shorter haul flights out of PHX


User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 13231 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 7):
But still, 40 longhaul aircraft on order (and only 10 that need replacing, some of which might be replaced by A-321s as well) means a lot of expansion in the next few years! Continental's entire long-haul fleet is about 40 aircraft (well I guess all of the 752s flying across the pond count too, so more than 40)...This seems like a lot for US Airways.

Although it sounds like a lot, there are a lot of international destinations that US can serve - profitably - due to their favorable cost structure. US had the second best profit margin of all major US carriers in Q3. We could conceivably see the order dates of the airplanes moved up once the economy starts to rebound.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
Grow! US Airways has built up a very impressive transatlantic network throughout the past decade, and in recent years they have made successful forays into the Middle East (TLV) and South America (GIG) for the first time in their history. We already know that GRU and NRT are in the cards, and I daresay the airline will also be serving Buenos Aires, Moscow, Istanbul, Cairo, Dubai, Beijing, and Shanghai within 10 years. 10 years ago, nobody would have imagined US serving Tel Aviv or Rio...

There are a lot of potential route opportunities still remaining in Europe (BXM, TXL, ARN, CPH, IST) and South America (LIM, SCL, GRU). I think they may be a little cautious on Asian destinations beyond NRT and PEK/PVG.


User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5654 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 13089 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 16):
Although it sounds like a lot, there are a lot of international destinations that US can serve - profitably - due to their favorable cost structure. US had the second best profit margin of all major US carriers in Q3. We could conceivably see the order dates of the airplanes moved up once the economy starts to rebound.

I certainly agree, and can't wait to see US open up TransAtlantically...



Next trip: SLC-DEN-SLC-PHX-JFK-LAX-SLC with my wife and oldest daughter. F9 to and from DEN, US to JFK, AA 321 and CR7
User currently offlineaviationbuff08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 346 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12432 times:

Can someone list the US Airways current International routes and which aircraft are used on them???

User currently offlinecrjflyer35 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 668 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12053 times:

I'd really like to see the 321's on the PHX-ORD route. All 5 flights except for the 5 am departure from ORD seem to be oversold. Though I don't know how much of the traffic is business vs. leisure to fill more first class seats in a 321 vs. a 320.


Ok, wait for the RJ to pass, cleared to push tail south Mike, and you're cleared to spin #2 in the push.
User currently offlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3402 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 12010 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
Grow! US Airways has built up a very impressive transatlantic network throughout the past decade, and in recent years they have made successful forays into the Middle East (TLV) and South America (GIG) for the first time in their history. We already know that GRU and NRT are in the cards, and I daresay the airline will also be serving Buenos Aires, Moscow, Istanbul, Cairo, Dubai, Beijing, and Shanghai within 10 years. 10 years ago, nobody would have imagined US serving Tel Aviv or Rio...

I wouldn't exactly call one destination in the Middle East area a "forays". Additionally GIG is still new and hasn't really been proven. Some think it will be a tag to GRU.

When has NRT been in the cards? Sure US will have the aircraft in 10 years to fly these routes but I am not sure about them. UA/AA/DL are having a tough time making PEK work. US needs a strong product to break into markets that are under a stronghold of carriers that have served them for a while (ie. flatbeds to TLV, however that was a minimalistic approach)

Yes anything can happen in 10 years.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
I'm sure US will patiently let UA/CO's new EWR-CAI develop before starting anything of its own.

Despite the alliance, US does still compete against them.


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11858 times:

There was talk on here a few years back about US Airways ordering some second hand A340s for flights to Asia, whatever happened to that?

User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1305 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11702 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 21):
There was talk on here a few years back about US Airways ordering some second hand A340s for flights to Asia, whatever happened to that?

They found out that it wasn't worth the cost and that they would just wait until the A350s. Pretty good move if you ask me. They would've had A340s going to PVG when fuel was high and demand to china was at its lowest

Quoting aviationbuff08 (Reply 18):
Can someone list the US Airways current International routes and which aircraft are used on them???

That can be done by going to www.usairways.com


User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1914 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11189 times:

I would personally love seeing US compete on some 'free-for-all' TATL routes from cities like BOS or MIA. They're very strong in the northeast and I'd love to see them capitalize on that more.

User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3058 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10118 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
Buenos Aires, Moscow, Istanbul, Cairo, Dubai, Beijing, and Shanghai

Buenos Aires, yes
Moscow, IDK, its hard to tell. Moscow hasnt turned out to be the goldmine everyone thought it was.
IST and DXB, yes, US seems to do well in the Middle East.

Quoting EricR (Reply 16):
LIM, SCL, GRU

SCL won't work out of CLT. Only EZE, GRU, GIG, LIM, and BOG will.

Quoting EricR (Reply 16):
We could conceivably see the order dates of the airplanes moved up once the economy starts to rebound.

  



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
25 will777 : Or, I could just list them for you! From PHL: A330 - 200: PHL - TLV PHL - CDG PHL - LHR PHL - MUC A330 - 300 PHL - FCO PHL - MAD PHL - FRA (2x daily
26 B6A322 : 'twould be nice if they could take the Dorniers off of the some of the short shuttle hops. I know, I know, its a rare opportunity to fly in a commerc
27 Goblin211 : I didn't know Cactus flew to TLV! Learn something new everyday.
28 WesternA318 : Being sort of stuck out West here, I'd relish tohe chance to fly on a Dornier over the OO EMB-120's that currrently reside here in SLC!
29 briboy : Really?
30 flyorski : What they need to do is open up some western cities from the east side. For example to fly SLC-JFK, it would be nice if one could fly SLC-PHL-JFK inst
31 LVPlanefan : Any chance US Airways will order some Boeings in the future? Why do they not want to be bothered with Boeings?
32 usairways85 : I've seen PHL-EWR, EWR-IAD, EWR-DCA, JFK-IAD flights delayed for several hours due to ATC issues. I think I would rather fly PHX-JFK than PHL-JFK.
33 PHLwok : For US? They don't have Dorniers in the Express fleet. Do you mean the older Dash-8 models?
34 AAairplane : I think it is very unlikely, since all of their mainline orders are for Airbus (except some Embraers.) Also, I think they are trying to move to an al
35 NASCARAirforce : Does anybody fly Dorniers in the United States anymore besides a few private companies? They are pretty much gone in commercial service as far as I k
36 USAirALB : These are only a 762 for the month of October. The A332s were removed from these routes, so they could be fitted with the new Envoy seats. They both
37 usairways85 : Double daily CLT-FRA next summer?
38 USAirALB : No. US does double daily PHL-FRA. Even though, I wouldn't be surprised if US started double daily FRA at one point or another...
39 Post contains images FutureUScapt : In all likelihood, the A350s will be a combination of growth and replacement for the B767s and possibly even the significantly underpowered A333s (wh
40 USAirALB : However, with the economy improving, and if US keeps making a profit, we may see these deferrals canceled or reduced. Hallelujah, someone agrees with
41 PM : Have they already been deferred? I must have missed that but the Airbus press release still reads 2014-2017.
42 Post contains links FutureUScapt : "In addition, commencement of US Airways’ Airbus A350 XWB operations, with aircraft deliveries originally scheduled to start in 2015, will now be p
43 PM : Thanks.
44 EricR : Several years as stated by Kirby and Parker. The intent is to fly PHX-NRT. It has also been speculated that they will launch a PHX-FRA route.[Edited
45 usairways85 : Well yea I remember that, but the way it was phrased by the OP made it sound like US was all ready to apply for PHX-NRT. As we've said you are not go
46 mah584jr : I'm definitely a big US supporter, but I cannot understand how US will be able to fly and fill 22 A350's, based on their current hubs. If you want to
47 WesternA318 : Perhaps by the time the A350's come online, the hubs will have hit their peaks and the US system will be able to hold any long haul route with their
48 flyguy89 : What do you mean? CLT and PHL are already huge hubs.
49 WesternA318 : I was simply stating by the time US gets their A350's, all three hubs will be optimized and of sufficient size in terms of passenger numbers to warra
50 EricR : Interesting. I think the exact opposite for the following reasons: 1.) The second largest overseas origin passengers to PHX are from Japan (Great Bri
51 Post contains images B6A322 : GOSH! Sorry. Yes, I mean the Older Dash 8's. Aka DHC8's. Aka not Dorniers
52 washingtonian : Yup, this seems likely. Although I imagine the 762s will be gone before 2017. Say what you want about US but they have a young and attractive fleet.
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