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Allegiant Moving Back To Sanford For Ops  
User currently offlineglobalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 925 posts, RR: 3
Posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8099 times:

This is interesting. I always thought that a split operation was a risk. I wonder if the pending WN/FL merger has anything to do with this move. I am certain that SFB is much more economical to operate vs MCO.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Allegi...ll-prnews-2197502781.html?x=0&.v=1


Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7983 times:
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Quoting globalflyer (Thread starter):
This is interesting. I always thought that a split operation was a risk. I wonder if the pending WN/FL merger has anything to do with this move. I am certain that SFB is much more economical to operate vs MCO.

Very interesting. A lot of people expected they would consolidate at MCO.

I guess Southwest/Airtran may play some part in their thinking, but very few of the destinations they are moving back to SFB seem to compete directly with anyone.

Hmmmm. Food for thought. Thanks for posting that.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinesunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2038 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7917 times:

I just saw this on Facebook. I am very sure that the pending merger between WN/FL had a lot to do with this decision to move all ops back to SFB. Maybe SFB cut them a sweet deal to return all operations.


Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlinetjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2423 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7905 times:

"Our customers prefer the convenience and simplicity of Sanford, and we're pleased to respond to their overwhelming requests to return all of our Orlando service to the airport," Andrew C. Levy, Allegiant Travel Company President, says. "Additionally, the substantially lower airport operating costs coupled with the more efficient operating environment at Orlando Sanford made this the right decision for Allegiant."

Yeah, I bet SFB made G4 a sweet deal to return - waived or lower landing and terminal rental fees. I was kind of surprised they split their Orlando ops to begin with.

[Edited 2010-10-26 11:11:05]


Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineRamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7854 times:

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 3):
I bet SFB made G4 a sweet deal to return.......

I wouldn't bet against you. Anybody on here know specifics, cost-wise?


User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2357 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7788 times:

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 3):
"Our customers prefer the convenience and simplicity of Sanford, and we're pleased to respond to their overwhelming requests to return all of our Orlando service to the airport," Andrew C. Levy, Allegiant Travel Company President, says. "Additionally, the substantially lower airport operating costs coupled with the more efficient operating environment at Orlando Sanford made this the right decision for Allegiant."

I bet SFB made G4 a sweet deal to return.......

Must be. I have a hard time believing they have had "overwhelming requests" to spend about $7each way in Tolls on the 417 and drive 40 minutes instead of 10 to LBV. Really? I'm always trying to spend more and drive longer. One of my overwhelming requests in planning a vacation.


User currently offlineAvconsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7788 times:

Quoting RamblinMan (Reply 4):
I wouldn't bet against you. Anybody on here know specifics, cost-wise?

Don't forget SFB airport is operated by abertis airports. A joint venture between government/private industry giving a lot of flexibility with less government red tape.


User currently offlineRamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7737 times:

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 5):
Really? I'm always trying to spend more and drive longer. One of my overwhelming requests in planning a vacation.

Just goes to show how far people will go for the cheapest possible ticket. I've had family fly UA in coach when they could have flown OpenSkies for about $200 more.


User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7637 times:

I think Mariner is spot on...the dynamics of the WN/FL combination make SFB look really attractive. Makes me wonder if we will see other minor players in the Orlando market (not that G4 is a minor player) take a look at moving as well.

User currently onlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7368 times:

I knew that this was going to happen for several reasons:

-SFB launched a "Keep it Simple, Allegiant" letter-writing campaign.
-People were flooding G4's Facebook page with requests to return MCO-transfered flights to SFB.
-G4 doesn't have a relationship with Disney's hotel/resort division (though they sell Disney tickets), and strongly encourages customers to package their flight and hotel together ($20 discount). This, plus Allegiant's strong relationship with Enterprise Holdings (National/Alamo/Enterprise) makes the benefit of the MCO-Walt Disney World Magical Express moot.
-G4 also sells Daytona Beach hotels. SFB is closer to Daytona Beach than MCO (though DAB beats them both).
-As mentioned here earlier, SFB is cheaper to operate into than MCO.
-Over the last few days, the "Important Travel Information" saying that FWA and other flights operate from SFB and not MCO was removed from booking. Guess I now know why...



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineJA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 563 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7334 times:

It's obvious that someone thinks the AllegianTran days are over. Southwest may not eliminate that flying, but I don't think they are going after any more of it.

User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2854 posts, RR: 30
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7310 times:

No surprise here. G4 has found its niche with the alternate airports like IWA and PIE. MCO is a lot harder than SFB with all the kids and baggage in tow. Plus, not everyone going to Orlando is visiting the parks. Plenty of folks just visiting friends/relatives in the Orlando area or checking out Daytona, Cape Canaveral, etc.


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4242 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7230 times:

When I was in Orlando earlier this month, I counted five or six Allegiant jets just sitting around one of the concourses at MCO. No a soul to be seen in that whole part of the airport.

Before leaving from MCO two days later, I went to the helipad on top of the parking garage and noticed only one aircraft had moved (same tail numbers parked at the same gates). I know they have very odd aircraft utilization but perhaps one reason MCO didn't work was because they had aircraft sitting around too long!!!



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1093 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7224 times:

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 5):
Must be. I have a hard time believing they have had "overwhelming requests" to spend about $7each way in Tolls on the 417 and drive 40 minutes instead of 10 to LBV. Really? I'm always trying to spend more and drive longer. One of my overwhelming requests in planning a vacation.

1. Not everyone is going to Disney or even to the I-Drive area.
2. Many people prefer the ease and low stress of SFB. My parents live in Dr. Phillips and will drive right past MCO to fly G4 on SFB because they like the low stress, easy to use airport.
3. Not everyone is so concerned with a few dollars in tolls or a slightly longer drive in light of the above.



TLH
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7468 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7177 times:

Good news that planes go to SFB and return in one piece.

User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1610 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7158 times:

Quoting JA (Reply 10):
It's obvious that someone thinks the AllegianTran days are over. Southwest may not eliminate that flying, but I don't think they are going after any more of it.

I think this must be a big part of it as well. WN seems unlikely to launch new routes from Orlando to small cities with a few weekly frequencies, so G4 probably realizes their niche won't be under attack quite as severely as it may have been with an independent FL. Couple that with any incentives SFB may provide and it probably became an obvious move for G4.


User currently offlinePlainplane From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 837 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7085 times:

Nice scrolling banner on the SFB home page:
"--- Welcome Home, Allegiant! --- February 2011 Marks the Return of 10 Cities! --- Click Here for Details --- All Allegiant Orlando-area Flights to Operate In/Out of Orlando Sanford ---"

Links to this official SFB press release:
http://www.orlandosanfordairport.com/documents/press_releases/aaysfbreturn.pdf

I'm glad to see the Mad Dogs sticking around more.


User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2357 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7081 times:

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 13):
1. Not everyone is going to Disney or even to the I-Drive area.
2. Many people prefer the ease and low stress of SFB. My parents live in Dr. Phillips and will drive right past MCO to fly G4 on SFB because they like the low stress, easy to use airport.
3. Not everyone is so concerned with a few dollars in tolls or a slightly longer drive in light of the above.

So, why did the airline move there in the first place? Overwhelming requests? From what I have seen, most are headed to to DW or Universal or to see Shamu. or the Dr. P area.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6712 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7020 times:

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 17):
So, why did the airline move there in the first place? Overwhelming requests?

My guess is that it was a negotiating tactic -- G4 moved flights to MCO to demonstrate to the company running SFB that they could and would walk away from SFB if need be.


User currently offlineFATflyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5790 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6947 times:

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 5):
Must be. I have a hard time believing they have had "overwhelming requests" to spend about $7each way in Tolls on the 417 and drive 40 minutes instead of 10 to LBV. Really? I'm always trying to spend more and drive longer. One of my overwhelming requests in planning a vacation.
Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 17):
So, why did the airline move there in the first place? Overwhelming requests? From what I have seen, most are headed to to DW or Universal or to see Shamu. or the Dr. P area.

I believe Allegiant moved some flights to MCO as both an experiment and as a competitive response.

My guess is the move did not change booking levels from the originating cities so why keep paying higher costs.

Also keep in mind from nearly all Allegiant cities the only other alternative is a connecting flight. So spend extra time driving from SFB or spend a similiar amount of time making a flight connection, it comes out similiar travel times that way.

For many people, a non-stop flight with a longer drive will seem easier than dealing with changing gates for a connection at someplace like ATL (probably especially true for a family dragging kids and carryons thru the connecting airport).



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6889 times:
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Quoting FATflyer (Reply 19):
My guess is the move did not change booking levels from the originating cities so why keep paying higher costs.

I think that has to be part of it. Obviously, Allegiant isn't a'feared of Southwest - it chose to make LAS its first hub when it was a puny wee thing and all its subsequent success is based on that decision.

I agree the combo with Airtran makes that more complex, but it could be it making a bet that Southwest won't keep some of the common Allegiant/Airtran routes to MCO.

Mostly, I'm wondering if Allegiant has simply decided SFB was the right decision first time around and is, very sensibly, sticking to its knitting?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3795 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6805 times:

I'm amused that anyone has even consiered ANY other reason for their move besides AirTran .

User currently offlineFLALEFTY From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 444 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6657 times:

I'll throw this out. The Kissimmee Gateway Airport has ambitions to expand. They have been flirting with G4 and others, offering their close location to WDW (roughly 5 miles). But they lack the runways, the taxiways, ramp space and the road network, not to mention a reasonable terminal with TSA, to support airline operations. The Kissimmee Gateway Authority is trying to get stimulus money to expand their facilities, but then again, so is every other competing local authority.

In the meantime, SFB is a cheap and comfortable home for G4's Central Florida ops. They tried MCO and found the higher-cost ground ops offset any gain in passenger acceptance of MCO over SFB. It is only 45 minutes from SFB to Disney, which most vacationers do once coming in, and once going home. Those who claim Disney is "10 minutes from MCO", obviously don't live in the area. It's a good 20 to 25 minutes due to traffic.


User currently offlineexFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6544 times:

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 5):
Must be. I have a hard time believing they have had "overwhelming requests" to spend about $7each way in Tolls on the 417 and drive 40 minutes instead of 10 to LBV. Really?

In the grand overall scheme of a week's vacation, a total of an hour driving isn't material...and that's using your 10-minute figure, which is only likely if you're arriving at 3 AM and have a nugget of depleted uranium in your foot. Factor in shorter security lines and faster rental car check-out (especially if you're using Hertz or Thrifty, which are off-airport at MCO), and the time difference dwindles to immateriality.

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 17):
So, why did the airline move there in the first place?

They worried (over-worried, IMO) about FL's invading a couple of their markets with less-than-daily service, but to MCO. Like most folks here, I'm predicting that WN will drop most or all of those routes as soon as they can.

Quoting FLALEFTY (Reply 22):
The Kissimmee Gateway Authority is trying to get stimulus money to expand their facilities, but then again, so is every other competing local authority.

I don't see this happening - if any airport in that area of Florida is going to get stimulus money to pursue commercial service, it'll be Lakeland.


User currently offlineDazed767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5489 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5655 times:

Quoting richierich (Reply 12):
When I was in Orlando earlier this month, I counted five or six Allegiant jets just sitting around one of the concourses at MCO. No a soul to be seen in that whole part of the airport.

I know tuesday's are a slow day for them this time of year, I've seen days without departures (SFB anyways).

There is an overwhelming request for them to return. The snowbirds on the coast close to SFB hate driving to MCO and SFB is convenient. Even when the local news here did a story about them moving late last year, they interviewed a few pax at SFB and they weren't happy about having to go to a 'bigger airport'.


25 MASTYC : I completely agree with this. Besides SFB is a nice airport. I find MCO to be exhausting.
26 Alias1024 : If the seven bucks is a big deal then just take Lake Mary Blvd. to I-4. Yeah, it's a few more minutes but except during rush hour I-4 across Orlando
27 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : I think FWAERJ hit this one perfectly. Allegiant doesn't do any packages with Disney and a lot of their flyers book hotels and cars directly thru them
28 Post contains images bjorn14 : But Mr.Levy what about the overwhelming customer requests you had in wanting service moved to MCO what about them? huh? Somebody is not telling the t
29 777KLM : Isn't this just the Allegiant model as we see it in other US cities as well? Instead of MCO, they fly to the secondary airport SFB Instead of ORD or M
30 KarlB737 : As an added note Allegiant will make this move as follows: - Allentown, Pa. - Feb. 1, 2011 - Knoxville, Tenn. - Feb. 1, 2011 - Des Moines, Iowa - Feb.
31 Post contains images TVNWZ : We don't want those snowbirds clogging up I-4 and making life miserable for us Heathrow snobs. My 10 minutes was to the hotels, not the entrance to t
32 Post contains images bjorn14 : I am sure you meant RFD
33 MDShady : I'll never understand why they moved operations to MCO in the first place. There's always the arguement that they wanted to stave off FL but when have
34 DeltaRules : I've only flown into SFB once, but would take it over MCO any day of the week, either going to Orlando or Daytona. If G4 flew to CMH or LCK, I could
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