airliner777 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 493 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 22648 times:
According to the source AAL1640 MIA-BOS (B752) experienced a rapid decompression at FL310 due to a "hole" near the L1 door. Aircraft returns to MIA for an emergency landing.
"Hole Forces Jet To Return To Miami International
MIAMI (CBS4) ―
A bit of a scare in the air for passengers aboard an American Air flight to Boston last Tuesday.
According to the National Transportation Safety Board, Flight 1640 left Miami International Airport at about 10 p.m. Approximately 30 minutes in the flight, the Boeing B-757-223 experienced a rapid decompression at about 31-thousand feet. Oxygen masks were deployed inside the aircraft as the captain declared an emergency and returned safely to Miami.
An inspection of the plane on the tarmac found a 1 foot by 2 foot hole just behind the forward door on the left side of the fuselage. The NTSB investigators are working to determine what caused that section of the plane to give way."
According to www.flightaware.com there was a diversion MIA-MIA on Oct 26/27.
sw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6072 posts, RR: 10 Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 22580 times:
Scary stuff! I wonder if it is something along the lines of that Southwest 737 that had to divert into West Virginia a few years back with a legitimate hole in the top of the fuselage.
mrskyguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1203 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 22535 times:
Sounds like someone bumped the fuselage a little too hard during turns.
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
KELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 5929 posts, RR: 4 Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 21551 times:
Quoting ULMFlyer (Reply 3): I don't know about that. Someone posted a couple of pics on PPRuNe and the hole is on the roof behind the L1 door.
Bumped by a deicer cherry picker, perhaps? If so, it is probably unreported damage left over from last winter...
I hope it is not skin fatigue, that will lead to an unsightly huge skin doubler like most of the middle-aged 737 classics now feature...
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
B6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2767 posts, RR: 7 Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 21357 times:
Quoting ULMFlyer (Reply 3): I don't know about that. Someone posted a couple of pics on PPRuNe and the hole is on the roof behind the L1 door.
Thanks for posting that. I took a look as soon as I saw your post. Interesting pics.
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
motopolitico From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 212 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 20263 times:
The pics on PPRuNe seem to be from an earlier WN incident. The pic at the end of the thread looks like some sort of access hatch blew, very clean cut.
okie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2345 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 19751 times:
Quoting motopolitico (Reply 6): The pic at the end of the thread looks like some sort of access hatch blew, very clean cut.
Both the AA and WN holes seem similar in appearance.
The WN incident was listed as metal fatigue at the edge where chemical milling had been used. Basically a sharp change in thickness vs a gradual change causing the stresses from pressurization cycles to be focused in very small area.
While we do not have access to the structural composition of the area involved in the AA incident for all intents and purposes seems to be a similar issue. Boeing may have to alter there procedures in chemical milling to get more of a feathered/larger radius for lack of a better term to distribute the stress out. I am not sure in how many areas Boeing uses the chemical milling on the fuselage skin.
If this ever gets serious enough to be a more than an occasional issue the FAA could slap down a definitive X number of cycles and the airframe goes to the scraper or non N registration.
B6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2767 posts, RR: 7 Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 19717 times:
Quoting motopolitico (Reply 6): The pics on PPRuNe seem to be from an earlier WN incident. The pic at the end of the thread looks like some sort of access hatch blew, very clean cut.
Definitely, they were comparing the two. The pics of the the AA plane definitely do make it look like some type of patch or panel popped right off. I'm not familiar with the 757, anyone out there know of any access panels on the exterior above the L1??
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
UTAH744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 170 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 18989 times:
wjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4553 posts, RR: 17 Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 18733 times:
blobusus From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 35 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 18448 times:
Seems like the area around that door is a common place for this sort of thing to start. Didn't Aloha Airlines 243 cut loose around the same area? I guess it's logical with all the door action and the jetway bumping, and even the pax traffic through that opening.
Numero4 From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 260 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 18014 times:
Quoting okie (Reply 7): Boeing may have to alter there procedures in chemical milling to get more of a feathered/larger radius for lack of a better term to distribute the stress out. I am not sure in how many areas Boeing uses the chemical milling on the fuselage skin.
markboston From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 74 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 13323 times:
The cabins of AA planes look so worn out and grubby that I can't help but wonder about the aircraft's structure.
motech722 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 211 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 10940 times:
By far the best post I have read...The cabins of AA planes look so worn out and grubby that I can't help but wonder about the aircraft's structure.
I think we have hit it on the head folks, if the cabin interiors look grubby, the aircraft is unsafe to fly. I'm going to call and inform the NTSB that the reason American Airlines crashed in Jamaica last December was because of a grubby interior. Then, I'm going to march up to the head flight instructor at the local flight school and let him know that those old Pipers need to be grounded because there are tears in the seats and satined, orange carpet on the floor, therefore, the plane is unsafe to fly.
I think comedian Ron White said it best, "Next time you have a thought...let it go."
moman From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1048 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 10025 times:
Quoting markboston (Reply 14): The cabins of AA planes look so worn out and grubby that I can't help but wonder about the aircraft's structure.
Actually this is a very interesting quote. The average person does not know the maintenance procedures that commercial aircraft follow. There is a PR angle to this, and it would be reasonable for the average person to suspect that AA doesn't maintain it's aircraft because of the poor condition of the interiors. We on here know that's not true, but we're not the average persons, either.
Maybe this incident will get AA to speed up the interior refurbs.
type-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4342 posts, RR: 21 Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9859 times:
I am surprised we haven't had any news reports with passengers commenting "I thought we we going to DIE!", or "It was just SO terrible!".
But don't you know the descent down to 10K feet was pretty wild.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
That sounds like something the media would say. What's so scary about it? It happens, the plane landed safely, and it was inspected. The chances of something really catastrophic happening are so low.
7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 632 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 9580 times:
The condition of an interior hardly has anything to do with the shape of the airplane.
Boeing has thousands of aircraft inservice with Chem - milled skins. They fly everyday.
There are several issues that seemingly need to be addressed:
Possbily revising times/cycles on certain inspections.
Review how previous repairs are affecting cracking in other areas of the aircraft. (This is very common. Install a new window belt and now cracks develop elsewhere as the strain is pushed elsewhere.)
Look at this aircraft in particular - where has it been - is there a jetway in the system where there is something under the padding hitting the skin?
25 413X3: Really? Then why so many entries? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontrolled_decompression
26 Aaron747: Wonder how long it will be before AA starts taking 757s out of service to avoid FAA inspectors...*drumroll*
27 ZRH: I absolutely agree. There are some serious questions to ask. I guess you would not be very happy when your Airbus falls apart in your back. [Edited 2
28 Aesma: A big hole in the skin of an airliner is scary. And I'm sure when it happened nobody was happy in the plane. That does not mean the plane "almost cra
29 777fan: Anyone have the track log for the diverted flight? I'd love to see the descent rate following the incident but it seems FlightAware overwrote the flig
30 type-rated: Sometimes to get maximum descent after a decompression you don't always put the plane in a dive. I have heard that you can also slow it down, drop fla
32 777fan: Sure, but in this case at FL310, at (or close to) cruise speed, I wouldn't think dropping flaps and gear would be an option. Instead, I'm guessing yo
33 ukoverlander: I agree - where are the shocking headlines and the error filled report of events? I would have expected the newspapers to report something like this:
34 type-rated: In my original statement, I said I have heard that you can also slow it down, drop flaps & gear, go into a steep bank and you'll get a very sharp
35 Aesma: But you can't fly at high altitude and slow speed.
36 DocLightning: Well done! Although it is strange that we haven't heard anything about this on the news.
37 Longhauler: Some aircraft do have a maximum altitude for flap extension. But you can maintain your current IAS. The concept being that if you maintained that spe
38 Tigerguy: He did leave out one part, though: "In the midst of their terrifying experience in the skies, all passengers aboard the Tupolev remembered to put on
39 413X3: No the question is, are you? While it is a serious problem, it is by no means reason to start the melodrama. Scary is losing hydraulics or both engin
40 bhill: 413x3, lighten up...for the average "lay flier" it would be terrifing to all of a sudden lose all of the breathable atmosphere, the tempurature droppi
41 sandroZRH: Listen. Holes blowing out of aircraft are by no means things that "just happen". A rapid decompression at cruise altitude is a serious emergency and
42 moman: The standard process for a decompression with a controllable aircraft (Boeing) is: 1. Don oxygen mask. 2. Thrust to flight idle 3. Extend speed brake
43 Aesma: Once the maneuver is on the way, would the F/O tell something to the passengers (like, we're not crashing) ?
44 MarkHKG: On the cabin crew side, flight attendants are commonly taught to shout commands when masks drop after they don their own masks - something on the lin
45 777fan: Wow, 10K FPM....good info, thanks. I can understand how that'd freak out the casual flier who doesn't understand what's going on and who probably thi
46 kanban: I don't see any grubby interior in the pict.. I see structure and sub structure with anti corrosive materials applied... probably not AV8 (Dinitrol)
47 7673mech: For whatever reason the crown's don't get "as grubby" as say the bildge or cargo bays. I can see browning by the rivets and on the structure. It may
48 TSS: I was wondering about that too since the hole appears to start right about where the jetway padding contacts the fuselage on top. Have there been inc
49 jetmech: From what I can remember seeing, the fuselage skins are indeed milled as stated. The skins are slightly thicker in the areas where they rivet onto st
50 Aesma: How much weight does that milling save ? I'm guessing it can't be used on glare which is a composite.
51 MNMncrcnwjr: But ... Shouldn't have this addressed the situation? =================== [Federal Register: October 24, 2007 (Volume 72, Number 205)] [Rules and Regul
52 AAR90: Talk about melodramatic, your description is that of a massive "explosive decompression" and NOT a "rapid depressurization" which is what occured in
53 cpqi: Are you serious ? Because I wasn't supposed to be
54 UAL747DEN: I fly MUCH more than most people, I would say about 3-4 round trips a week on average and I can tell you that I have no doubt I would be scared to de
55 AAR90: You need to remember that this instance was much LESS than "just a decompression where the masks fall and the plane drops out of the sky..." An exper
56 litz: Weren't there in-cabin pictures from the SWA 737, where you could clearly see ceiling damage from inside the cabin? I would be shocked if there wasn'
57 Longhauler: Both of these scenarios sound dramatic, and both are likely NOT what happened. The hole in the airframe is not much larger than the outflow valves, s
58 474218: The panel in the picture is a lower wing plank, not a fuselage panel. Note the cut outs for the fuel tank access panels.
59 flashmeister: Per comments from pax on the flight over at Avherald, the decompression was more rapid than what you envisioned. They said that there was an audible
60 jetmech: Could also be window cutouts? Regards, JetMech
61 kanban: if you are looking at reply #49, that is a lower wing panel of a pretty small plane... I think the poster was only trying to show what chem milling l
62 jetmech: Interestingly enough, the caption for the photo states that the item is a fuselage panel for a regional jet. http://www.ducommun.com/das/chemMill.asp
63 TSS: And it's apparently for an aircraft with wings that taper towards the ends but are not swept.
64 Kaiarahi: Which nobody could see ... so for the pax, it was "just" a decompression.
65 474218: What regional jet that has oval windows and flat side walls?
66 jetmech: No idea. No doubt, the website was probably developed by a communications company, so information such as photo captions could be wrong. It may well
67 7673mech: No unfortunately not. The AD you are refering too only checks around butt joints, skin laps and previous repairs. Not to be a wise guy but a definiti
68 kanban: no and no...it was a typo on the initiating website by some one who saw holes and assumed... the same person that can not see the difference between
69 7673mech: I am not convinced about that. Why would a wing have sound suppression on it? To me it looks like a window belt.
70 TSS: Okay, what aircraft has that many small windows spaced so close to each other and has such a pronounced taper to the fuselage (note how the spaces ab
71 7673mech: Good point. Looking at it closer it may not be sound suppresion in the chemill.
72 kanban: just to ensure that the picture is a lower wing skin, I have emailed the company and asked... if i get a reply, I'll post it
74 7673mech: Yeah you are right! Looks like you found where that panel is from. Like I said previous - it initally looked like it had sound suppression installed
75 jetmech: I must admit that I didn't even notice the pronounced taper of the panel, which is quite noticeable. Aft fuselage panel? Emergency exit? Fair enough.
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