Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
UA ORD Announcement Update?  
User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 605 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 8367 times:

Anyone have an update on UA's ORD new service? I've heard this will be significant and quite a bit of international flying (some via CO 75L's). We will see.

Also, given UA / CO will fly DAL to IAH and DAL to DEN, why not DAL to ORD?

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLouieP2186 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 8316 times:

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Thread starter):
Also, given UA / CO will fly DAL to IAH and DAL to DEN, why not DAL to ORD?

DAL to ORD on American Eagle had some of the worst loads to ORD I have ever seen so they pulled out of DAL. As far as the DAL to DEN I am hearing that XE is suppose to move some planes their for this route as SkyWest will move some CR7's to IAH......again this is what I am hearing from my XE pilot friends so I don't know about any facts on it.


User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 605 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8242 times:

I flew DAL 3 times and not an empty seat on any flight, but that doesn't talk about yields. I think this is just a pissing contest between UA / AA / WN.

User currently offlineLouieP2186 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8194 times:

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Reply 2):
I flew DAL 3 times and not an empty seat on any flight, but that doesn't talk about yields. I think this is just a pissing contest between UA / AA / WN.

I don't think their yields where good at all. But AA is not known for cheap flights either.....


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9817 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8124 times:

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Thread starter):
Anyone have an update on UA's ORD new service? I've heard this will be significant and quite a bit of international flying (some via CO 75L's). We will see.

A 757 won't get beyond the UK in Europe from ORD. I would think that MAN is the only airport that would have a chance of actually happening. A daylight ORD-LHR might be possible on a 757, but probably unlikely.

What I see growing out of ORD is Mexico flights. CO is huge in Mexico and Mexicana use to be very large in ORD. UA has already announced switching from seasonal ORD-MEX to double daily.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently onlineAmricanShamrok From Ireland, joined May 2008, 3004 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8066 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 4):
A 757 won't get beyond the UK in Europe from ORD. I would think that MAN is the only airport that would have a chance of actually happening.

I can see seasonal ORD-SNN happening sometime down the line; perhaps instead of the extra 4 weekly EWR-SNN to add greater flexibility. It was quite popular when EI operated it (and that was with the A330!) - the 757 would be the perfect aircraft for the route in present times.



Shannon-Chicago
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2908 posts, RR: 31
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7862 times:

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Thread starter):
Anyone have an update on UA's ORD new service?

Well, they've been doing a lot of tinkering with their ORD schedules lately, so I'm sure we'll hear something soon.

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Thread starter):
I've heard this will be significant

I would imagine that as the sole non-region specific gateway (EWR/IAD overwhelmingly serve Europe/Africa/Middle East/India, ditto for IAH and Latin America as well as SFO/LAX and Asia/Australia) ORD stands to gain the most service of all.

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Thread starter):
quite a bit of international flying (some via CO 75L's)

That's exactly what I would expect, because there are very few cities outside of Texas in the CO domestic network that UA does not already serve n/s from ORD.

Domestic -

Absolute certain additions:
ORD-PBI, ORD-FLL. PBI and FLL are not only strong mainline stations for CO but also serve as gateways to the CO Connection Bahamas network.

Somewhat possible additions:
Restoration of ORD-TUS and/or ORD-ONT, now that UA has acquired the CO FF base in those markets.
ORD-Deep South/Gulf Coast, i.e. ORD-MOB, ORD-JAN, ORD-BTR. Can't be much riskier than sending those IAH-DAL continues onwards to DEN, right?

ORD-DAL is possible, but if AA couldn't do it with all their Chicago and Dallas FF on both ends of the flight I don't see how UA/CO could possibly do it.

Also, maybe they'll bump stuff like ORD-ABQ and ORD-RSW back to mainline, as I hear ORD-MIA is already going back back to mainline. The best way to free up UAX ExPlus planes for IAH/EWR is to pull them off ridiculously long domestic flights like those where they should have never been in the first place  .

International -

This is where it gets interesting. I think they will definitely play off CO's network strengths in Mexico, the Caribbean, and Europe, perhaps even Central America, Israel, and India.

Almost certain additions:
ORD-NAS - they serve NAS from CLE, so I can't see how they couldn't do it from ORD!
ORD-MTY, ORD-GDL, and wherever else MX flew to n/s from ORD - Mexicana was an absolute powerhouse out of ORD. I expect UA/CO to fill much of their void before AM or Volaris does.
ORD-GCM - they already applied for IAD-GCM, so why not fly there from ORD too?
ORD-MAN - restore the popular Star Alliance link that BD used to fly

Somewhat possible additions:
ORD-BDA
ORD-BZE - BZE is becoming quite the hotspot these days. Maybe this will appeal to the growing number of sunbirds and retirees that go there.
ORD-ACA - they fly EWR-ACA seasonally, so they probably could do this one seasonally too
ORD-TLV - El Al flew it for years, and with CO doing so well at TLV, why not give it a try? Unfortunately I think IAD-TLV makes even more sense as a "capital-to-capital" service..
ORD-Mont Tremblant - lots of skiers in Chicagoland would probably love this one
ORD-YTZ - they could supplement YTZ-EWR with YTZ-ORD to offer convenient connections to the Western U.S. and beyond.
ORD-BOM - with everyone else doing ORD-DEL, why not do this one instead?
ORD-DUB - maybe start off seasonal, but I imagine they could knock AA off it since they would have the EI feed on it
ORD-ZRH
ORD-ATH - seasonal flights would be very popular
ORD-HAM - could a 757 do it? If so, with a LH codeshare, I'm sure it'd do very well.
ORD-GLA/BHX - AA used to fly both of em, so why not restore the n/s links with 757s?



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7718 times:

With regards to Trans-Atlantic 757s, there are much more opportunities from IAD than ORD. From ORD the range of CO's RR powered 757s pretty much limits the options to Ireland and the UK. CO's current longest 757 route is EWR-TXL at 3, 980 miles, that route faced diversions during the WInter due to strong winds so CO now places a 767-200 on the route during the Winter.

From ORD the realistic options (performance wise) for possible 757 deployment would be;

Dublin, Shannon, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Manchester, Birmingham.

Not saying all or any of those routes from ORD will happen, just that they are within the performance range of CO's 757.

From IAD there are many more routes within 3,980 miles;

DUB, SNN, Edinburgh, Glasgow, MAN, LHR, BHX, AMS, BRU, CDG, MAD, DUS, OSL, LIS are all within the range of CO's 757s from IAD.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2725 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7616 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 6):
ORD-BOM - with everyone else doing ORD-DEL, why not do this one instead?

Probably too long. 250 miles longer than CO's EWR-BOM, which is on the edge of the 772ER range.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 4):
A daylight ORD-LHR might be possible on a 757, but probably unlikely.

Too long by a few miles. Also, due to time zones a 0900 ORD departure wouldn't get in LHR until 2330.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 6):
ORD-MTY, ORD-GDL, and wherever else MX flew to n/s from ORD - Mexicana was an absolute powerhouse out of ORD. I expect UA/CO to fill much of their void before AM or Volaris does.

How about CO cities MZT, ZIH, IXP from ORD?

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 6):
ORD-GLA/BHX - AA used to fly both of em, so why not restore the n/s links with 757s?

Along with these (some you mentioned), DUB, SNN, EDI, MAN with CO 757s.
To accomplish the 752 ORD flying, 1.) multiple EWR markets may in essence move a frequency from EWR to ORD, 2.) some remaining domestic flying CO 752s could be covered by 738/9 aircraft, 3.) some EWR-Europe flights could upgrade to 763ERs. Some of us have been saying pull a few 763ERs from hub-to-hub and selected Hawaiian flying and cover with 753 aircraft. Then the 763ERs could fly ERW/ORD/IAD-Europe to allow international additions.


User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 605 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7543 times:

ORD-GCM is seasonal. I think PLS, NAS, and a few other Caribbean routes are a given. I also think UA/CO will make
ORD the LATAM / TRANSPAC connecting point. Add a few nonstops, and ORD is a great connecting point for PVG, BJS, HKG, NRT, ICN, etc. to GRU, EZE, SCL, LIM, and a few others. AA makes DFW-SCL work on cargo alone. No reason reason UA/CO can not make this work. Also, EZE would feed the pacific as well as LIM (the DL folks here swear that DTW-LIM is a nobrainer, don't see why ORD wouldn't work if that is the case).

ORD-Mexico is a huge O&D market. MX is gone (probably for a long time, if not foever). UA can leverage the O&D with CO's network / reputation and add GDL, BJX, MTY, MLM, and probably a few more markets. Also, they can probably add PTY and BZE as well.

With regards to Europe: ATH is a great seasonal market, probaly year round as well, but yields are probably soft, but at least an 80% LF. HAM and TXL/BBI will be served via LH. MAN, EDI, BHX, LIS, OSL will also work well.

TLV: Would work easily on UA / CO, maybe not daily, but will work.
CAI: MS will fly this.
DXB: EK and AA have punted, UA / CO will make this work.
BOM: Another no brainer with the right aircraft.
DOH: QR will fly this.


User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2725 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7528 times:

Your post was beingprocessed while I was working on mine.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
With regards to Trans-Atlantic 757s, there are much more opportunities from IAD than ORD. From ORD the range of CO's RR powered 757s pretty much limits the options to Ireland and the UK. CO's current longest 757 route is EWR-TXL at 3, 980 miles, that route faced diversions during the WInter due to strong winds so CO now places a 767-200 on the route during the Winter.

I agree with you. Basically, all 41 CO 752s should be flying exclusively between ORD, EWR, IAD, (can I say CLE?) and Europe. Of course there would be spare units and no ops on weekdays to provide maintenance, but this type of flying will extend the life of the aircraft and provides right-sized aircraft to many less competitive markets. There may not be a need for UA 752s to be converted to international flying, which would include BF configuration changes. There's plenty of flying for UA 752s to continue with domestic, Hawaiian and PS service and the addition of some service to Mexico, Caribbean, Central and South America. I can see 739ERs covering many current UA 752 domestic routes while UA 752s cover for CO 752s domestic flights and added service, especially from ORD to south of the border.


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3217 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7521 times:

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Reply 9):
DXB: EK and AA have punted,

How do you figure AA isn't going to try this before UA...??


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7440 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 10):
There may not be a need for UA 752s to be converted to international flying, which would include BF configuration changes.

I forget the exact number, but only something like 14 of UA's 96 757-200s are ETOPS. Those are needed for Hawaii, however some could find their way to Latin America (EWR/IAH-Lima etc..).



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4326 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7413 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Thread starter):
why not DAL to ORD?

In a 50 seat RJ???

I'd rather drive over to DFW and fly out on a 753.  


User currently offlineJasonCRH From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 301 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7295 times:

I dont know what you're talking about. UA could have done this before they merged with CO. why do you think this will change things? UA has already tried EZE multiple times from ORD and failed every time. AA has tried it. There simply is no substantial value add to having this service that cant be flown with better yields over other hubs. Ditto with SCL. SCL is a VERY small market overall. AA makes it work based somewhat on cargo, but also on its ability to sop up all the western bound traffic. That's what UA would be fighting for, and i'm SURE they have a much better use for their 763 than an ORD flight. The only destination I can see workign for SCL would be IAH. MAYBE EWR... but again, these are all things CO could have been doing by itself beforehand. The fact that they havent (and actually dropped SCL for lack of profitability) speak volumes. Adding one or two more transpacific flights from ORD is definitely NOT going to change things that much.

where, by the way, do you propose that all these aircraft come from for all these new flights?

some of these posts on here make me wonder about peoples' business acumen.

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Reply 9):
ORD-GCM is seasonal. I think PLS, NAS, and a few other Caribbean routes are a given. I also think UA/CO will make
ORD the LATAM / TRANSPAC connecting point. Add a few nonstops, and ORD is a great connecting point for PVG, BJS, HKG, NRT, ICN, etc. to GRU, EZE, SCL, LIM, and a few others. AA makes DFW-SCL work on cargo alone. No reason reason UA/CO can not make this work. Also, EZE would feed the pacific as well as LIM (the DL folks here swear that DTW-LIM is a nobrainer, don't see why ORD wouldn't work if that is the case).


User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2521 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7146 times:

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 14):
dont know what you're talking about. UA could have done this before they merged with CO. why do you think this will change things?

Very simple: the combined carrier has the "luxury" of pushing the combined fleet to the max. Reducing capacity and redundancies on some routes will free up aircraft on other routes. Naturally, they yields will drive all decisions but I wouldn't summarily dismiss the possibility that some of these routes will come to fruition, especially considering UA themselves hinted at ORD (int'l) expansion a couple of weeks ago.

777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineNorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1872 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5545 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 8):
Probably too long. 250 miles longer than CO's EWR-BOM, which is on the edge of the 772ER range.

To put things in perspective, Ord-Bom is 8054 miles according to gc mapper, Ewr-Hkg, which CO currently runs, is 8065 miles so it could be done theoretically with CO metal. With only 20 or so of those 777s in the fleet, something would need to be sacrificed, assuming that flying both Ewr-Hkg and Ord-Bom would require 4 aircraft. Maybe pull one of the two Ewr-Tlv 777s in favor of one 777 and a 744. UA would also have to consider how much demand there is for dedicated F class between Ord and Bom, that might be another sacrifice, giving away a dozen high paying passengers to LH or AI to gain a foothold in the India market. That's assuming that UA keeps those 777s in a 2 class configuration.



Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2908 posts, RR: 31
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5489 times:

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 16):
That's assuming that UA keeps those 777s in a 2 class configuration.

That, of course, is the biggest question of all. I really don't think UA can do away with F entirely - it would alienate too many premium pax in key markets like IAD, ORD, SFO, LAX, GRU, LHR, FRA, NRT, HKG, and SYD. But I also don't see how they can afford to have all the long-haul birds in 4 class (F/J/Y+/Y) as PMUA does either, since that severely restricts the routes they can serve - stuff like ORD-EZE, SFO-TPE, and IAD-MAD failed for them in the past likely in part because their fleet was just too premium-heavy. I think they will have to reconfigure *some* of the 777s so that EWR-NRT, EWR-HKG, EWR-TLV, and EWR-India can enjoy F and Y+ service, but keep others as is for stuff like EWR-CAI, EWR-FCO, etc. Will be interesting to see what they decide - we should know soon!



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5249 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
however some could find their way to Latin America (EWR/IAH-Lima etc..).

CO utilizes the B752 on the daily EWR-LIM service. On 12/01/10, CO will upgrade a/c on the daily IAH-LIM service from the B752 to the B753.

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 14):
The only destination I can see workign for SCL would be IAH. MAYBE EWR... but again, these are all things CO could have been doing by itself beforehand.

EWR-SCL will not succeed since LAN will soon operate SCL-JFK daily, (currently it operates 6x weekly) and SCL-LIM-JFK already operates daily. Also, IAH-SCL would not work with AA flying DFW-SCL daily, which is a profitable route for AA. However, LAN is very interested in operating into ORD next year. Perhaps a SCL-LIM-ORD routing.


User currently offlinebriboy From Canada, joined Jul 2001, 367 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5222 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 6):
ORD-YTZ - they could supplement YTZ-EWR with YTZ-ORD to offer convenient connections to the Western U.S. and beyond.

They will use all the slots for YTZ-EWR. This route is one of the strongest for PD, and needs strong competition based on frequency.



next up: YYC, SFO, SYD, AKL, WLG, CMB, BKK, SIN, FRA, VCE, JFK
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8656 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5024 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
With regards to Trans-Atlantic 757s, there are much more opportunities from IAD than ORD. From ORD the range of CO's RR powered 757s pretty much limits the options to Ireland and the UK.

From ORD/IAD there would be no problems however from Europe, the flight time is essentially the same whether it be to IAD or to ORD and either would be tight, especially in the Winter. Keep in mind I said flight time, not distance. ORD routes have the advantage of not requiring much of a detour from the standard route due to the jet stream because it's much further north whereas IAD/EWR bound flight often have to fly a more northern or southern route to avoid the jetstream.


User currently offlinefleabyte From Brazil, joined Jan 2010, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4975 times:

funneling people to Chicago is not attractive to many many travellers wanting to go from Eastern, western or southern USA, I will do anything to avoid that airport, especially in winter. Tired of bland pizza and mcdonalds at that place....

User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2725 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4726 times:

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 16):
To put things in perspective, Ord-Bom is 8054 miles according to gc mapper, Ewr-Hkg, which CO currently runs, is 8065 miles so it could be done theoretically with CO metal.

The distance may be the same, but the HKG routing is polar and I believe winds are lower. The BOM-EWR flight is longer than the EWR-HKG flight in block time by about 15 minutes. Add more miles for BOM-ORD and you may run into additional payload problems, realizing the BOM-ORD is more of a polar route, but not as close to being directly over the pole as EWR-HKG is.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4613 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 18):
CO utilizes the B752 on the daily EWR-LIM service. On 12/01/10, CO will upgrade a/c on the daily IAH-LIM service from the B752 to the B753.

I know, I'm theorizing that UA could redeploy their own ETOPS Pratt powered 757s on EWR-LIM and IAH-LIM. That would free up a couple more of CO's RR powered 757s with the Businessfirst cabins for additional trans-Atlantic routes.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4573 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 23):
I know, I'm theorizing that UA could redeploy their own ETOPS Pratt powered 757s on EWR-LIM and IAH-LIM.

CO may chose do that, and it looks like they will pull one of the B752s off of its LIM routes. LIM is cargo intensive so I can understand why CO will deploy the B753 on the IAH-LIM route.


25 RoseFlyer : The 6am ORD-IAD flight continues to LHR with the same flight number (different planes). I would not put it passed them. They have a lot of O/D out of
26 UAL777UK : Agree with this and besides doesn't AA offer a year round service on this route? If AA can make this work (before ATI as well) I am sure UA could.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
UA Pacific Schedule Update posted Fri May 1 2009 17:33:13 by LAXintl
UA ORD-LHR Rights Won By Lawsuit, True Or Myth? posted Mon Mar 23 2009 01:36:51 by NorthstarBoy
UA ORD-LHR posted Thu Dec 25 2008 17:03:58 by Legacytravel
UA Winglet 757 Update posted Thu Jan 17 2008 21:44:52 by Transpac787
UA's ORD Hub Showing Its Age? posted Sat Oct 20 2007 18:12:27 by 777fan
AA/UA ORD-ORF posted Thu Sep 20 2007 05:03:35 by Highliner2
UA Needs To Update Their Jetway Banners posted Wed Aug 29 2007 06:17:40 by Flybynight
UA: ORD-MSY All Mainline Eff. 10/29 posted Fri Aug 10 2007 19:48:28 by MSYtristar
UA ORD-HNL A 747-400 Today (Mar 24) posted Fri Mar 23 2007 19:29:48 by Brick
UA ORD-ATH-ORD posted Wed Jan 17 2007 01:02:18 by 1981