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WN Will Augment FL's ATL With 20 New Cities  
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Posted (4 years 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7806 times:

Bob Jordan, Southwest's executive vice president of strategy and planning, is quoted as saying;

Quote:
"It could turn out to be that Atlanta is the largest city in the Southwest network in a reasonable amount of time,"

The most interesting quote;

Quote:
Southwest could add "well more than the 202" daily flights currently on AirTran's Atlanta schedule. The Associated Press writes Jordan said "Southwest will augment AirTran's Atlanta service with flights to 20 or more cities where AirTran doesn't fly." Presumably, that would include multiple daily flights on each of those routes.
http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...uthwest-airlines-atlanta-/129261/1


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8912 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (4 years 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7710 times:

Not surprised. Some WN cities that FL doesn't serve include that might make sense (to varying degrees) for WN (so no GSP/BHM since they're so close):

MHT
PVD
ISP
EWR
CHS
AUS
LIT
OMA
ECP
OKC
TUL
CLE
ALB
SLC
DEN
BDL
ORF
BNA
ELP
ABQ

That being said, we'll see if Southwest does stay in some of the smaller cities. For example, they might want to consolidate PHF and ORF into one operation. Same with cities like FNT/MLI/BMI, etc.


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2897 posts, RR: 31
Reply 2, posted (4 years 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7680 times:

Of course WN will link ATL to cities that FL doesn't serve! After all, how are their loyal pax in LIT, MHT and ALB supposed to catch their flights to the Caribbean?  


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineUltimateDelta From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2164 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (4 years 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7624 times:

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 1):
OMA

Living here, I couldn't help it but say something:  

I think it would definitely make sense. If WN doesn't go for it themselves, I bet the Airport Authority will definitely try to attract them. Currently DL controls that market, and there's a lot of people we lose to MCI.



Midwest Airlines- 1984-2010
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7550 times:

I think most of the markets will be linked to ATL because its the albeit small, international gateway for FL. Not to mention its the biggest operation for FL. Easier to ramp up here as the physical capabilities are already in place.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7406 times:

Thats all ATL needs is 200 more daily flights in an already overcrowded airport

User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (4 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7353 times:

WN will certainly add service to new cities that FL doesn't currently serve from ATL, but WN will also surely cut service to some current FL cities as well. Also, in terms of gate space ATL is quite constrained, especially FL's current situation. WN's going to have a hard time adding a substantial number of flights from ATL (more than 50 daily flights); they're trying to build up the combination of two low-cost carriers, but ultimately I see DL fairing better from having WN at ATL than FL. WN has much higher costs than FL and subsequently charges much higher fares. FL currently undercuts DL on every route that the two airlines operate, but DL beats FL through offering more frequency and first class on many routes. I fail to see how WN is going to change this overall picture.

Jeremy


User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3075 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (4 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7306 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 6):
Also, in terms of gate space ATL is quite constrained, especially FL's current situation.
Quoting SESGDL (Reply 6):
WN's going to have a hard time adding a substantial number of flights from ATL (more than 50 daily flights); they're trying to build up the combination of two low-cost carriers,

To these points, I think it would be helpful to look at FL's gate utilization rates. WN is known for their quick turns (30 mins?). If that's the case, and if the data shows that the FL utilization rate is significantly higher, they may be able to add capacity very easily without ever having to build/lease more gates.


User currently offlineflyorski From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 996 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7293 times:

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 1):
DEN

I am pretty sure that AirTran already flies that route. I believe they codeshare with F9.



"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1616 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7211 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 7):
To these points, I think it would be helpful to look at FL's gate utilization rates. WN is known for their quick turns (30 mins?). If that's the case, and if the data shows that the FL utilization rate is significantly higher, they may be able to add capacity very easily without ever having to build/lease more gates.

FL gate utilization at ATL is below WN average. However, that is a misleading statistic. WN might be able to improve gate utilization slightly at ATL but it won't be anything significant. ATL has a ATC contstraints that will prevent WN from adding much in terms of gate utilization - sure they could turn the plane faster but it would just be stuck out on the taxiway. WN is not going to be interested in having planes stuck on the ground in ATL being non productive. Its really not how fast you get the plane in and out of the gate but how fast can you get the plane in and out of the airport - and adding flights in ATL is only going to increase the ATC delays regardless of gate utilization.

My prediction is that adding FL's ATL operation to WN network will do more to lower WN overall gate utilization rate than improving FL gate utilization at ATL.


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4149 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7194 times:

If WN starts Atlanta-Manchester (NH), you can be quite sure that Delta will come in with 777s on the route. Well...maybe not. Maybe 747s instead.

User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1616 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7174 times:

As far as the FL frequent fliers leaving FL if they dump first class...

While 94% seems a bit drastic, it was a given that many of them would leave. Delta will gladly welcome them with open arms. But that is not a surprise, WN knew this going in and have known for years that many travelers avoid them because they dont have first class on their planes but they have decided that their model is not targeting those passengers and its not worth the cost to cater to those passengers for the incremental revenue. Also, don't expect any sub-fleet with a first class offering - WN is a no frills airline - thats what they do and thats what they are good at. I would expect a first class cabin on WN when they start flying widebodies.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6694 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7174 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 6):
WN will certainly add service to new cities that FL doesn't currently serve from ATL, but WN will also surely cut service to some current FL cities as well.

A few for sure, but probably no more than 5-10 will be cut.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 5):
Also, in terms of gate space ATL is quite constrained, especially FL's current situation.

Using WN's gate utilization model, you could realistically get about 300 flights through ATL. FL currently has about 200, so there's room to grow almost 50%. I don't expect WN to grow by quite that much, but there's room to grow.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 5):
I fail to see how WN is going to change this overall picture.

A few things that benefit WN:

1) Better service and brand reputation than FL. FL's brand isn't that well known, WN's is very well known.
2) Better marketing. WN advertises aggressively making sure far more people see their product.
3) No baggage or change fees helps differentiate WN in a way FL doesn't differentiate itself.
4) Huge base of existing customers that FL doesn't currently tap into.

The only knocks against WN:

1) Higher cost structure than FL.
2) Lack of business class will drive a few business passengers away.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 6):
ultimately I see DL fairing better from having WN at ATL than FL.

Except for one key thing. DL had FL on the run the past few years with FL shrinking at ATL by nearly 20%. FL had shown little intention of growing ATL on its own. WN, so far, has indicated just the opposite and wants to grow ATL. I'd rather have a shrinking/stagnant FL to compete against than a growing WN.

Of course, in the grand scheme, I'm sure DL will be fine. WN's arrival might cost them a little, but DL will still be profitable and remain on its own course.


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7078 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 6):

WN will certainly add service to new cities that FL doesn't currently serve from ATL, but WN will also surely cut service to some current FL cities as well. Also, in terms of gate space ATL is quite constrained, especially FL's current situation. WN's going to have a hard time adding a substantial number of flights from ATL (more than 50 daily flights); they're trying to build up the combination of two low-cost carriers, but ultimately I see DL fairing better from having WN at ATL than FL. WN has much higher costs than FL and subsequently charges much higher fares. FL currently undercuts DL on every route that the two airlines operate, but DL beats FL through offering more frequency and first class on many routes. I fail to see how WN is going to change this overall picture.

There are plans at ATL to build a terminal complex on the south side of the field. Maybe they better start building it.


User currently offlineglobalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 940 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6877 times:

I think that ATL Airport may do something in terms of extra gates. The "D" Concourse (I think gates D1-D12 except the CO gates) are common use where only AC, F9 and NK operate along with DL and FL. YX is or has left ATL with their ATL-MKE route. I wonder if ATL will work a deal to give the majority of the common use gates to WN and combined maybe 2 as common use only or move those carriers to "E" but charge them the non-int'l gate rates...not sure what Georgia Skies pays for their E-33 gate use? Just thinking how they can maximise the gates. Also with the UA/CO merger, when they consolidate, will they stay on "T" or "D"? Thoughts?


Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
User currently onlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5289 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6824 times:

A few points:

(1) Airtran actually had more than 20 more flights before the 2008 cutbacks. The article says as much. So there's currently room to expand.

(2) Glad WN is so enthusiastic. But as Boyd points out, there is already a discount carrier effect. And FL seems to have lower fares than WN, at least on routes I look at.

(3) Sorry to see the XM go. Will GoGo go as well?

(4) Nice time to be in the a/c painting biz.


User currently offline737tanker From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6824 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 12):
The only knocks against WN:

1) Higher cost structure than FL.
2) Lack of business class will drive a few business passengers away.



1) The cost structure will get lower by adding -800s and 717s, as well as retiring older -300s & -500s.
2) It wouldn't surprise me to see WN keep the business class on the FL aircraft and add it to WN's -700s and -800s.


User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6730 times:

Quoting globalflyer (Reply 14):
Also with the UA/CO merger, when they consolidate, will they stay on "T" or "D"? Thoughts?

Ive been wondering that. Continental has a decent presense at ATL and usually rons 1-2 737's and 2-3 expressjet E145s at the airport. Im wondering with that plus the UA service will there be room on T.

Quoting globalflyer (Reply 14):
I think that ATL Airport may do something in terms of extra gates. The "D" Concourse (I think gates D1-D12 except the CO gates) are common use where only AC, F9 and NK operate along with DL and FL. YX is or has left ATL with their ATL-MKE route.

Well FL has priority use of a good portion of the d gates from the D1a side up the concourse. FL has use of 32 gates at ATL plus can use other common use gates not included in the contract but would not have priority. Plus if the shift the few international flights originating in ATL to the E gates (mainly between 9:25am and 12:15pm) that frees up space on C.

FL's turn times are pretty close to WN's. If they could do dual deplaning and boarding liek they do in TPA MCO RSW EYW they would be able to get it even better.

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 16):
It wouldn't surprise me to see WN keep the business class on the FL aircraft and add it to WN's -700s and -800s.

You never know. Until WN can actually truly see the operation and the numbers and the true figures legally I feel anything is up for grabs.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlinedl767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6611 times:

SAN could have a lot of potential seeing how big WN is in SAN and the daily traffic on DL

User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2704 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6494 times:

There was a thread a few weeks ago about WN at DFW with FL's routes. I posted on that thread that I believe FL has something like 15 aircraft dedicated to their MKE operation that I thought could be moved to DFW.

It looks to me like those aircraft are destined to increase ATL operations. The MKE hubs looks redundant with MDW and there is competition with Frontier.


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6375 times:

Quoting flyorski (Reply 8):
I am pretty sure that AirTran already flies that route. I believe they codeshare with F9.

F9 never codeshared with FL, they just had a FF agreement, which expired in June. FL serves DEN on their own.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1616 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6251 times:

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 16):
It wouldn't surprise me to see WN keep the business class on the FL aircraft and add it to WN's -700s and -800s.

Don't bet on it. Not only would this increase their costs but it would increase their turn times. Two things WN is not interested in. WN operation is more successful than FL and about 4-5 times larger, WN is not going to change their huge successful network to appease a fraction of customers on FL's much smaller network. Remember this is not a merger of equals, WN acquired FL for access and airplanes not because they think they have a better business model. Like I said WN will add a first class cabin about the same time they start flying widebody aircraft.


User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6154 times:

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 21):
Remember this is not a merger of equals, WN acquired FL for access and airplanes not because they think they have a better business model. Like I said WN will add a first class cabin about the same time they start flying widebody aircraft.

And also remember this isnt a situation of Airtran is destitute and out of funds and begging. WN is keenly aware it could not grown 25 percent with out something major like this and FL is keenly aware it couldn't grow 75 percent with out something like this. Its not a merger of equals true, but its not a merger of dire need either. Couple that with FL presents WN with a platform to really change and grow exponentially. To say FL isnt successful is selling it short. It is successful in a different way then WN. In some ways FL is far more daring and scrappy then WN.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlinegoomba From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 309 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5669 times:

Thats all ATL needs is 200 more daily flights in an already overcrowded airport

I'm of the opinion that Atlanta needs a 2nd airport to service the city. It would be great to see something open on the north end of the suburban metroplex (Alpharetta, Marietta, etc.). I know I'm dreaming here, but sure seems like the city can support it.


User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5523 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Please note that there is an existing thread on this topic which can be found here: WN Media Day: New Destination City Details?

Please feel free to continue your discussion in this thread.


Enjoy the website!  


Rgds

SA7700



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