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Korean Air Increases LAX Service, Up To 6 Daily  
User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 3036 posts, RR: 52
Posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15652 times:
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According to the airlineroute.net blog, Korean Air will increase its LAX operations to 37x weekly next year.

http://airlineroute.net/2010/11/02/ke-lax-s11/

Not entirely sure if KE beats QF in terms of presence at LAX, but I'm quite sure that it will be among the top two or three for a foreign carrier.


The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1442 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15490 times:

With no ATI/JV in place between DL and KE, what current impact does KE have on DL's operation at LAX? I would suspect KE carries mostly O&D. What percentage of KE's LAX arrivals tranfers to other carriers and what percentage of that number goes on DL?

Curious to know.



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15370 times:

And they say KE doesnt need A380s or that the traffic is not there for anything other than their LHR route...

Amazing really.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1546 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15369 times:

Quoting peanuts (Reply 1):
With no ATI/JV in place between DL and KE

DL and KE do have ATI. They just don't have a JV.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10765 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15336 times:

Wow, KE would indeed save a lot of money on this route then if they replace the 777s with the big Bus.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31123 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15255 times:
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Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 2):
And they say KE doesnt need A380s or that the traffic is not there for anything other than their LHR route...

Was going to say. We now know where at least one A388 and one 748 will be allocated.  


User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15165 times:

Who said the traffic wasn't there? I had thought LAX was KE's biggest international market.
Hasn't KE already announced LAX as a 380 destination?


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25778 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 15082 times:

Yes before additional delivery delays, plan was to make LAX an A380 destination in November 2010.
Korean Air Announces First A380 Route (by LAXintl Jun 11 2009 in Civil Aviation)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinetarantulalv From United States of America, joined May 2008, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12756 times:

Absolutely no question that LAX can support the KE388. I just hope it operates one of the earlier ICN flights and actually depart during the daylight hours. Far too many widebody departures at night after being towed to the remote stands and this obviously includes the many QF multiples.

User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12661 times:

Most of the Asian departures from LA are morning or day flights if I recall correctly.

User currently offlineluvtheflying From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12563 times:

Quoting Delimit (Reply 9):

There are a few daytime asian flights, but the vast majority of Asian departures are at night.


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5306 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12563 times:

Quoting Delimit (Reply 9):
Most of the Asian departures from LA are morning or day flights if I recall correctly.

There are several TPAC flights that depart late night/ very early morning (midnight to 2 am). DL, KE, QF, VA, CX, and SQ all come to mind.



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User currently offlineluvtheflying From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12491 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 11):

Plus CI, Thai, OZ, CZ, CA, and EVA all have night time departures as well.


User currently offlinetarantulalv From United States of America, joined May 2008, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11977 times:

Some carriers have restricted service day departures during daylight hours such as BR and CX on the days they operate maximum frequencies. The other multiples are towed to the remote stands as normal. This is a saving grace for sure.

User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11725 times:

I wasn't really including QF and VA to be honest. I just recall seeing most of the Asian carriers that serve LAX represented around midday.

User currently offlineAZNCSA4QF744ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8153 times:

I hope when KE bring the whale to LAX they schedule it for a early morning or late evening arrival. Otherwise, it's going to be a zoo in FIS.

User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4807 posts, RR: 40
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7417 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 2):
And they say KE doesnt need A380s or that the traffic is not there for anything other than their LHR route...

Was going to say. We now know where at least one A388 and one 748 will be allocated.


"We" already knew this since KE does very good business with flights to and from LAX.  . it will be awesome to see both new 4-holers KE has ordered in operation.  .


User currently offlinecsavel From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1368 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6451 times:

Stupid question I've asked on A.NET #1,432,704.

Would it make sense to have one of those non-stops go directly to Busan? Big industrial city, can bypass Seoul. I know they are relatively close - Korea isn't huge, but you know, like "The airline formerly known as" Continental runs flights from the New York area to smaller European destinations, given all the Korean-Americans in LA, I think a couple of times a week direct to Busan might work.

OK flame away kids!



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User currently offlineFly2yyz From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1046 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6053 times:

Quoting csavel (Reply 17):
Stupid question I've asked on A.NET #1,432,704.

Would it make sense to have one of those non-stops go directly to Busan? Big industrial city, can bypass Seoul. I know they are relatively close - Korea isn't huge, but you know, like "The airline formerly known as" Continental runs flights from the New York area to smaller European destinations, given all the Korean-Americans in LA, I think a couple of times a week direct to Busan might work.

OK flame away kids!



I think this is a great suggestion rather than a stupid question. And if anyone says its stupid well... screw them!

DL operates into PUS on the following sched arriving into NRT for the bank of flights to North America:
DL646 PUS-NRT 752 1100 1310

They are the only non-Asian carrier, except LH, using PUS. I would love to see KE establish a trans pac flight or two as they, OZ and other Asian carriers, have been operating into the airport.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25778 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5857 times:

Nonstop to Pusan would defeat the strength and connectivity Korean Air manage enjoy with its ICN hub.

Half the reason KE can fly what it does at the frequencies it does is because people connect all over the place via ICN.

Adding direct services to other Korean city would work against this. Same reason why BA focus on London and no long hauls at Manchester, or Air France all on Paris instead of a Lyon link for example etc..



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFly2yyz From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1046 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5650 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
Nonstop to Pusan would defeat the strength and connectivity Korean Air manage enjoy with its ICN hub.

Half the reason KE can fly what it does at the frequencies it does is because people connect all over the place via ICN.

The problem with this is the fact that ICN actually doesnt have as much connectivity throughout Korea in general as compared to SEL and is more focussed on international connectivity.

ICN-PUS 3 x daily
2x daily with KE both with 738
1x daily with OZ with A320

Though you could connect through ICN from PUS, CJU and TAE via KE or OZ, I think eventually there may be a non stop to the US, most likely LAX down the road connecting onwards with DL? As Korea is a small country and high speed rail/busses do the job currently but there is more emphasis on regional airports to international destinations. Over the past 5 years we've seen CJJ, TAE, CJU, and esp PUS increase their international flight offerings mostly to Japan/China/South East Asia.


User currently offlinespeedbird0125 From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5506 times:

By the way, I wonder if KE is planning to upgrade KE011 to 77W instead of 744. I remember KE011 was operated by 77W for couple months last year, but it went back to 744 and KE017 is operating by 77W now. Is there more premium revenue on day flight than evening or night flight usually?

User currently offlineHeeseokKoo From South Korea, joined Jan 2005, 652 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5405 times:

Quoting speedbird0125 (Reply 21):
Is there more premium revenue on day flight than evening or night flight usually?

For Korean air, yes. Day flight usually has more O&D than night flight which means yield is higher (although it depends on final destination). Overnight flights is good for connections because KE has lots of intra-Asia flights in the morning. Since midnight flight is usually challenging physically, daytime flights are preferred regardless of purpose of travel. Well, there must be lots of exceptions, though. You see, HKG has lots of midnight US-HKG and HKG-Europe flights, but somehow ICN does not. It's been a while like that and people in Korea naturally put more premium on daytime flights. In general, night flights are cheaper and easy to grab award seats.

For JFK, ATL, and LAX routes, KE puts precious 77W on daytime, and 772/744 at night. Also Asiana recently changed JFK route from night to day flight to attract more O&D demand.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25778 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5377 times:

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 20):
The problem with this is the fact that ICN actually doesnt have as much connectivity throughout Korea in general as compared to SEL and is more focussed on international connectivity.

I'm not talking about domestic connections.

KE has done a fantastic job of using ICN as a well placed and well functioning hub. I see traffic loads here locally and some flights (especially the midnight departures) have virtually 75% of their traffic as beyond transfers.

Taking away ICN flights in favor of a PUS direct reduces the strength and vitality of the ICN hub.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2505 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5163 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
Nonstop to Pusan would defeat the strength and connectivity Korean Air manage enjoy with its ICN hub.

Half the reason KE can fly what it does at the frequencies it does is because people connect all over the place via ICN.
Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 20):
Though you could connect through ICN from PUS, CJU and TAE via KE or OZ, I think eventually there may be a non stop to the US, most likely LAX down the road connecting onwards with DL? As Korea is a small country and high speed rail/busses do the job currently but there is more emphasis on regional airports to international destinations.

Nonstop TPAC service to PUS (great city, by the way) would be a great idea if for no reason than to avoid the ground transit from ICN to SEL. There's no reason to believe that it couldn't fill a 772 three times a week. The Korean population in the L.A. area is significant enough that O&D traffic (PUS to the U.S.) would probably fill most of Y class alone, leaving room for FF upgrades for business travelers. The challenge would be to price it appropriately so as to avoid making it too expensive while still turning a profit.

777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
25 Fly2yyz : I would say that PUS being the 5th largest port in the world and the second largest city in Korea and having a good catchment area to south and south
26 laca773 : The main exception right now are all the day flights to Narita until DL starts HND in the evening. Wouldn't a 788 fit this market well and not take a
27 777fan : Yes, but it'd depend on who's metal would be involved, so as not to screw an alliance partner while also maximizing revenue. Assuming that's the case
28 Fly2yyz : Domestic traffic is not set up to route through ICN at all. I dont know where you got that from. Many flights do go into GMP but this is to meet dema
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