Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Alitalia To AirFrance In 2013?  
User currently offlineAZA330 From Italy, joined Feb 2004, 289 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9411 times:

It seems that, after all, and with much disappointment for the Italian tax payers, in 2013 Alitalia may end up as part of AirFrance. Sabelli, Alitalia's CEO, in an interview for a book by the Italian journalist Bruno Vespa declared that personally he believes, and he will suggest this to the stockholders, that a merger with AirFrance would constitute a stronger group for Alitalia's advantage. For this reason in 2013, when stockholders will be free to sell to whomever they wish, Alitalia may end up in AirFrance's group.

For those who read Italian, more here:
http://roma.corriere.it/roma/notizie...rance-1804080049079.shtml#commenti

To what degree do you think AirFrance will take over Alitalia's operations? And do you think Alitalia would be as important to AirFrance as KLM is today? I am curious to see what you think...

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1046 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8837 times:

Alitalia could be an important carrier for AF's north-south operation. FCO could develop into a major hub for Africa and the Middle East similar to IST.

User currently offlinegoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8559 times:

Quoting AZA330 (Thread starter):
To what degree do you think AirFrance will take over Alitalia's operations? And do you think Alitalia would be as important to AirFrance as KLM is today? I am curious to see what you think...

It seems obvious from the beginning that AF will own a major share in AZ one day or another. It's just a question of time.
And, yes, AZ can be a major asset for AF, maybe not as important as KL but not far when AZ will have fully recover from its restructuring. Italy is a very important market.


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7409 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8368 times:

Indeed, Alitalia becoming part of AF-KLM is planned from the beginning.
Air France is playing a major role in the current AZ reorganization and recovery ...


User currently offlineJL418 From Italy, joined Jun 2009, 493 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8310 times:

I think AZ will have a great deal of benefit from coming under the wing of Air France and KLM. AZ is already improving and, who knows, perhaps the French will decide to invest more heavily on AZ's long-haul fleet (transforming 4 of its A332's options in firm orders will be just fine). However, I cannot hide my anger at this situation. It was all in Mr. Prodi's plan, to sell Alitalia to the French I mean. Then Mr. Berlusconi arrived, mounted up a crusade for "preserving the 'Italianess' of the carrier" and agreed to pack it up with Air One, AZ's main rival, sell it for 300 million euros, way below its real value and the State took most of AZ debt, around 1,4 billion euros.
So, to sum up a bit: Berlusconi's government allowed the merger of the two biggest carriers in Italy, gagging the antitrust committee with a custom-built law, sold it under-priced and without any debt to a group of tycoons backed by one of Italy's biggest bank, who will have a great surplus by selling their share to Air France by 2013. They made us taxpayers spend a huge amount of money, they laid off more employees than they said they would and we've got less competition than we used to have before, basically to end up with the same result that Prodi had anticipated.


User currently offlineSteman From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1380 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8127 times:

Quoting JL418 (Reply 4):
basically to end up with the same result that Prodi had anticipated

with the little difference that Prodi would have sold AZ to Air France for a higher price and with all the debts.
Sometimes I really wonder how blind can the people be in Italy


User currently offlineJL418 From Italy, joined Jun 2009, 493 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7714 times:

Quoting Steman (Reply 5):
with the little difference that Prodi would have sold AZ to Air France for a higher price and with all the debts.
Sometimes I really wonder how blind can the people be in Italy

True indeed, as I said. People in Italy aren't blind, they just don't care anymore.


User currently offlinevhtje From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 7381 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting JL418 (Reply 6):
People in Italy aren't blind, they just don't care anymore.

Well, you (the Italian people I mean, not you personally) keep voting Berlusconi back in!


User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6862 times:

Wasn't this the plan from the very beginning?

It seems logical that AF-KL progressively increase their share in AZ until fully owning and integrating the airline. It also makes sense from a route network point of view, as AZ can complement AF-KL very nicely, and help them counter LH. 2013 seems reasonable, by then AZ should have optimized all its operations and there will be time to merge FF programs, integrate schedules, etc.


User currently offlineJL418 From Italy, joined Jun 2009, 493 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6688 times:

Quoting vhtje (Reply 7):
Well, you (the Italian people I mean, not you personally) keep voting Berlusconi back in!

I know, and I'd love to speak about it, but I fear we'd slip off the topic of this thread.

Quoting r2rho (Reply 8):
2013 seems reasonable, by then AZ should have optimized all its operations and there will be time to merge FF programs, integrate schedules, etc.

2013 is also the year when the current owners will no longer be obliged by law to maintain their share in AZ.


User currently offlineAZA330 From Italy, joined Feb 2004, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4268 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 1):
Alitalia could be an important carrier for AF's north-south operation. FCO could develop into a major hub for Africa and the Middle East similar to IST.

Does this mean that AirFrance would use Alitalia mostly for specialty markets? For example Alitalia would intensify its flights from FCO to Africa and middle east, so most AirFrance passengers would connect through FCO on Alitalia?

Related to my previous question I was also wondering if you all think that Alitalia's international network (and I mean especially intercontinental) will vary significantly when (or should I still say "if"?) it becomes part of Air France? I know that right now it is not really the biggest network, but would many of Alitalia's destinations overlap with what AirFrance already does? I am wondering this because it seems to me that many of Alitalia's passengers on long-haul flights connect from their home city through Milan or Rome, so wouldn't it be the same to connect through Paris as well?


User currently offlineklmcedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 812 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4198 times:

This is knitpicking on my part, but as an AF-KL employee it slightly bothers me that some people use solely the
AF denomination when speaking in terms of take-overs, mergers and whatnot. AF won't take over AZ, AF-KL might.
I realize the majority stake lies in Paris, but Air France and KLM both belong to the same mothercompany wich is
Franco-Dutch AFKL. And that's where all the major decisions are taken!

Once again, I know it's knitpicking, but after having read this mistake so many times on here , I felt like saying something
about it.

greetings to all,

Cedric


User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4976 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4155 times:

Italy is a very large volume market, and in particular, Alitalia underserves intercontinental.

User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3788 times:

Quoting AZA330 (Reply 10):

Related to my previous question I was also wondering if you all think that Alitalia's international network (and I mean especially intercontinental) will vary significantly when (or should I still say "if"?) it becomes part of Air France? I know that right now it is not really the biggest network, but would many of Alitalia's destinations overlap with what AirFrance already does? I am wondering this because it seems to me that many of Alitalia's passengers on long-haul flights connect from their home city through Milan or Rome, so wouldn't it be the same to connect through Paris as well?

AZ's network will surely vary as they are integrated, but I do not think it will shrink to become a feeder airline as you fear. Italy is a large enough market to support international O&D on its own. This is not like LH adding OS, AF-KL-AZ can be very complementary. The combined airline could efficiently run a triple hub operation, with each hub having a stronger emphasis on certain markets. So for certain destinations Italians will be flying via CDG/AMS, but for others it would be French / Dutch via FCO. I think LYS has more to fear than FCO if AZ is integrated.


User currently offlineSR4ever From Luxembourg, joined Mar 2010, 800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3384 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 13):
I think LYS has more to fear than FCO if AZ is integrated.

LYS is primarily a regional hub, so nothing to fear from FCO I believe.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
First 787-9 To ANZ In Early 2013 posted Tue Dec 23 2008 16:33:01 by IAD787
Alitalia: Millemiglia FFP Due To End In 2007 posted Sat Nov 11 2006 18:26:02 by Wingedarrow
Palestinian Airlines Ready To Invest In Alitalia? posted Tue Oct 25 2005 19:36:28 by JetMaster
Airfrance In Talks With Alitalia posted Sat Dec 9 2000 14:35:42 by L'espace18
Skywest To Transition Flying To IAH In 2011 posted Thu Oct 28 2010 21:19:19 by briguy1974
UA To Move In To US Terminal At LGA? posted Wed Oct 20 2010 10:26:49 by washingtonian
Upgraded Flights Due To Volcano In Iceland posted Wed May 12 2010 12:11:56 by NWA330nut
Hainan Airlines To MEX In Late 2010. posted Mon May 10 2010 20:53:36 by pzurita1
NY Islanders Charter To China In September posted Fri Apr 30 2010 21:57:14 by JCS17
Which Aircraft Did BOAC/BA Send To India In 60's? posted Sat Apr 10 2010 04:33:34 by jayeshrulz