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QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Part 2  
User currently offlineModerators From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 514 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 68934 times:

Please continue here from:

QF A380 SIN-SYD engine failure, emergency landing (by jasewgtn Nov 3 2010 in Civil Aviation)

Please use moderators@airliners.net to contact us.
271 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7475 posts, RR: 80
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 69012 times:
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Any word on how long QF will keep their A380 fleet grounded? Scheduling nightmare?

User currently onlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2811 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 68995 times:

I am very happy that this everyone was okay after this event. I shows that aviation engineers has built in some unique safety features. 40-50 years ago, this event could have been more dramatic.

I read in a Norwegian newspaper that SQ also have grounded their A380 airplanes, and LH wondering about the same thing. Anyone else got that info? Sorry if this was discussed in thread 1, but could not find any info about it.

Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlinedw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1274 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 68941 times:

Reuters reports both SQ and QF have grounded their A380s. It sounds that SQ may be back up and running fairly soon though...


CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7475 posts, RR: 80
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 68902 times:
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Quoting dw747400 (Reply 3):
Reuters reports both SQ and QF have grounded their A380s. It sounds that SQ may be back up and running fairly soon though...

The MSNBC article said AF, EK, and LH all will continue in service.   

User currently offlinetom355uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 336 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 68748 times:

Previously, Bralo20 (I think   ) posted about the ignition temperature of Jet-A1 being 38C, and that a spark from the debris could have caused a fire.

Firstly, I doubt there would be enough oxygen at the altitude this occurred to propagate a flame outside of the pressure hull.

Secondly, and crucially, the 'heat' part of his fire triangle is missing. The engine may have been on fire briefly, but compared to tens of tons of Jet-A1 at -20C or so it wouldn't stand much of a chance.

on Twitter @tombeckett2285
User currently offlineBralo20 From Belgium, joined May 2008, 653 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 68567 times:

Quoting fxramper (Reply 4):
he MSNBC article said AF, EK, and LH all will continue in service.

EK and AF are using the GP7200 engine instead of the RR Trent engine, so since it's an engine related happening there is no need to ground the planes with the EA engines. LH however can still decide to ground their planes if they think it's necessary or if they are asked to do so.

User currently offlineEBGARN From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 68493 times:

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 5):
Firstly, I doubt there would be enough oxygen at the altitude this occurred to propagate a flame outside of the pressure hull.

Secondly, and crucially, the 'heat' part of his fire triangle is missing. The engine may have been on fire briefly, but compared to tens of tons of Jet-A1 at -20C or so it wouldn't stand much of a chance.

I'm not opposing the fact that Jet-A1 is hard to ignite, but... Debris fell down in the Batam area, that is reached within one or two minutes after take-off from SIN. The outside temperature is still warm, and the air preassure is not too far from sea level.

User currently offlineBralo20 From Belgium, joined May 2008, 653 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 68385 times:

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 5):
Previously, Bralo20 (I think ) posted about the ignition temperature of Jet-A1 being 38C, and that a spark from the debris could have caused a fire.

Firstly, I doubt there would be enough oxygen at the altitude this occurred to propagate a flame outside of the pressure hull.

Secondly, and crucially, the 'heat' part of his fire triangle is missing. The engine may have been on fire briefly, but compared to tens of tons of Jet-A1 at -20C or so it wouldn't stand much of a chance.

It depends indeed on the altitude, at the higher altitudes there is indeed lack of oxygene in the air but at what altitude happened this "event"?

It all depends on the size of a possible leak, the size of a possible fire and the altitude the event happens.

Anyway, nothing serious happened in this case and that is the most important  

User currently offlinehuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1125 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 68345 times:

Quoting dw747400 (Reply 3):
Reuters reports both SQ and QF have grounded their A380s

But the last line said "delayed", not "grounded" for SQ's A380 flights. By that I presume they are going to do sequential checks on each aircraft, thus causing some delays.

I am not sure if SQ has enough capacity to use other aircraft to address the shortfall if it is for an extended period. But for QF it should not be a major problem.

It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlinemarkalot From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 68220 times:

It's always interesting (and I mean this respectfully) to see engineers comment on failures such as this. I believe everything they say, nevertheless a spectacular failure like this will result in a lot of press coverage and doubt that RR is going to have to deal with. Not sure why many think this is an anti-Airbus issue, the plane seemed to perform in a spectacular fashion and saved a lot of lives even though damaged. Luck, maybe, but good design as well IMO.

M a r k
User currently offlineskairbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 2000 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 68014 times:

I find it interesting that the focus of this thread so far is that of Airbus and Rolls Royce bashing, both of which are not common on this thread, with certain a-netters just as sensationalist as cheap tabloid papers:

So lets look at the possibilities:

- Engine design fault/build fault.
- Maintenance issues - Qantas has been slammed before for this so it should not be discounted (then again an open mind is required!).
- Bird Strike - The plane had afterall only just taken off from Singapore so that is a possibility.
- Possible effects from a number sectors in the vicinity of the volcano on Java.

The A380 is a very reliable aircraft but unfortunately gets slammed due to its profile. I'm sure all parties involved will do their best to get to the bottom of this but any undue criticism or seemly hateful remarks do not help matters at all.

Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 68084 times:

Here is an interesting video of the incident taken from a passenger just after it occured...



User currently offlineCamiloA380 From Sweden, joined Feb 2008, 486 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 67976 times:

This is what i found in SQ's website.

Delays to A380 flights

04 November 2010

Our engine manufacturer Rolls Royce and aircraft manufacturer Airbus have advised us to conduct precautionary technical checks on our A380 aircraft, following today's incident involving another operator’s A380.
Resulting from this development, Singapore Airlines will be delaying all flights operating our A380 aircraft.
We will keep affected customers updated and more information will be provided once it is available


User currently offlinenicoeddf From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1140 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 67833 times:

Quoting fxramper (Reply 1):
LH wondering about the same thing

LH decided definitiely AGAINST grounding.

User currently offlinenicoeddf From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 1140 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 67704 times:

Quoting skairbus (Reply 12):
So lets look at the possibilities:

- Engine design fault/build fault.
- Maintenance issues - Qantas has been slammed before for this so it should not be discounted (then again an open mind is required!).
- Bird Strike - The plane had afterall only just taken off from Singapore so that is a possibility.
- Possible effects from a number sectors in the vicinity of the volcano on Java.

- I bet on a blocked vent near IPT disk due to coking...  
- Maintenance SHOULD be discounted. No way to check or maintain the IPT Disc in the installed engine
- A bird strike WON'T take out the IPT Disc
- Volcanic ash won't take out the IPT Disc

User currently offlinekeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 67735 times:

right after landing


User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5095 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 67625 times:

Just glad the plane landed safely.

Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlinePlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 575 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 67633 times:

Quoting skairbus (Reply 12):
I find it interesting that the focus of this thread so far is that of Airbus and Rolls Royce bashing, both of which are not common on this thread, with certain a-netters just as sensationalist as cheap tabloid papers

I have read both threads and have read nothing but praise for Airbus and Qantas - the crew in particular. I am more of a Boeing fan, but am truly impressed with how well the 380 performed and don't recall any serious criticisms of the plane. RR is taking criticism because this is their second uncontained engine loss of a recently developed engine. That doesn't seem unreasonable.

User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2875 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 67565 times:

Quoting skairbus (Reply 12):
I find it interesting that the focus of this thread so far is that of Airbus and Rolls Royce bashing

Why do so many people get so defensive over such a thing? Rolls Royce somewhat deserves some questioning as they seem to have problems lately (uncontained engine failure on test stand, and now this.)

In my opinion, this could of been a lot worse.

[Edited 2010-11-04 08:45:33]

[Edited 2010-11-04 09:15:39]

View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineSlarty From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 342 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 67618 times:

Interesting ... according to passenger interview ( http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video...qantas.engine.passenger.cnn?hpt=T1 around the 0:55 mark), he claimed that after landing, and having emergency crew work on the aircraft, there was still fuel leaking from engine #2, and engine #1 could NOT be shut down.

If true, I'd guess that there was more damage to that wing that one might have first thought.

User currently offlinebonusonus From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 66866 times:

Kind of surprising that they circled for more than an hour to dump fuel before landing. In a case where the fuselage has been physically damaged I would think that you would want to get the a/c on the ground ASAP.

User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2239 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 66724 times:

Quoting nicoeddf (Reply 16):
- I bet on a blocked vent near IPT disk due to coking...
- Maintenance SHOULD be discounted. No way to check or maintain the IPT Disc in the installed engine

With all due respect, would you mind clarifying your two statements?
1. Do you bet on a blocked vent, or was it a blocked vent?
2. Is it really true that this IPT disk cannot be maintained or even checked, how is this possible that a modern aircraft can have parts that cannot be checked?

When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineaeropiggot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 66658 times:

Quoting KPDX (Reply 20):
Why do so many people get so defensive over such a thing? Rolls Royce somewhat deserves some questioning as they seem to have problems lately (787 uncontained engine failure, and now this.)

There have been no uncontained 787 engine failure, a RR test engine failed during test runs in a lab.

A scientist discovers that which exists, an engineer creates that which never was.
User currently offlinetbloemink From Netherlands, joined Mar 2010, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 67242 times:

Oh dear, I flown VH-OQA once :S

Flown on: A300, A319, A320, A321, A330, A380, B717, B734, B737, B738, B739, B747, B777
25 TrnsWrld : Thanks for posting that. Not that I would expect anything less but that is a VERY professional sounding pilot!!! COngrats to the flight crew on doing
26 KPDX : Sorry, I should of worded that better. I was meaning the engine INTENDED for the 787. I'll edit that. Thanks
27 SEPilot : A bird strike will take out the fan, not one of the turbines. I doubt very much that a bird could have done the damage we see.
28 RJAF : The Captain is completely honest with the passengers and his voice is so reassuring. Well done. That's a first class airline.
29 PH-BFA : training engine failures in the simulator is regular routine, a real life situation certainly not
30 b78710 : in a situation like this its quite possible that the procedure is to drop the gear on the gravity extend. that would explain why the gear doors were s
31 Aither : Both RR engines equipping the 787 and A380s are they really the same ? Because if so and an uncontained failure appeared during the tests of this engi
32 Dano1977 : Just my own thoughts... Nice work by the crew, but i guess this is why they are paid the big money, to handle situations like this. It's too early to
33 A380900 : In the previous thread, there was mention of a fadec rupture on the number one engine. The poster said that the engine would then keep running at the
34 LTC8K6 : It was good that they could not see the engine itself...
35 airbazar : That's a little too much sensationalism don't you think? Give a little credit to the airplane builder and its engineers. There have been far worse in
36 starrion : In disclosure, I have been a Boeing fan. I am not sure why anyone would be 'bashing' Airbus here. An engine failure is an ENGINE failure. That it was
37 LTC8K6 : And the crew...
38 NYC777 : Does anyone know if the Trent 900 and the Trent 100 share the same core?
39 Post contains images KPDX : Exactly.
40 bonusonus : How long will QF keep them grounded for? What will factor in to their decision to restart A380 operations?
41 6YJCX : It appears that some of the blades from the compressor penetrated the wing all the way through to the upper surface. Does the wing tank extend that fa
42 sunrisevalley : So far as I know this is the first "uncontained" engine failure for the type for QF. But they have had shut downs in flight and on takeoff with the t
43 parapente : I am somewhat surprised that all T900 aircraft have not been grounded.To me at least it can only mean that they know exactly what happened to what and
44 b78710 : in this case it was turbine blades not compressor. the fuel tank doesnt extend that forward i believe the damage was contaioned to the leading edge/s
45 richierich : Well CEO Alan Joyce said when they are reasonably confident the cause of the engine failure has been addressed. That means figuring out what happened
46 spacecadet : I haven't read anything that suggests the fuselage was damaged. If it was, I will stand corrected, but my reading of this is that the pilots really w
47 Post contains links readytotaxi : Qantas seems to be doing okay with flight delays at SYD at the moment, just checked the Sydney airport flight board and apart from the problem at SIN
48 Post contains links aviationweek : The timing of the QF32 incident could hardly come at a worse time for Rolls-Royce. Read AVIATION WEEK's thoughts on it here: http://bit.ly/aZcKQH
49 EstorilM : Err don't turn this into a superiority contest against an aircraft that hasn't even entered revenue service yet. Newsflash: The A380 didn't have any
50 Sabena332 : Tonight's FRA-JNB flight will not be operated with an A380. JNB gets the A346 from the CPT flight and the CPT flight gets a spare A343. Both flights
51 BA174 : I suggested in the other contingency plans thread that BA should upgrade tonights BA SIN/SYD flight to a 744 or lay on an additional flight to SIN on
52 MD11Engineer : Because you´ll have to rip the whole engine apart to get at the IPT (or any) turbine disk. This can only be done in an engine overhaul shop, with th
53 racko : The ZRH homepage shows SQ345 as departed.
54 Post contains links EstorilM : Wow everyone, check out this image and zoom in - http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/m...archive/01753/qantas2_1753557c.jpg You could fit a person thro
55 777STL : No kidding. I thought we were an educated bunch here when it came to matters pertaining to civil aviation. But when I start seeing comments like, "OM
56 Post contains links fca767 : Have you seen the landing video from behind the wing, I'm guessing some hydraulics didnt work on the spoilers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJN8Paj8I
57 DocLightning : I haven't read every post but I don't see any Airbus bashing. Nothing to bash. An Airbus aircraft weathered an uncontained engine failure and landed
58 413X3 : What's the percentage of people on this site actually saying such things? 1%?
59 NQYGuy : I totally agree. A number of posters have been added to my de-respected members club. I have no issue with preference of engine, but I don't think it
60 Post contains links cosmofly : Flightblogger has this pic http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/A380T900-07.jpg It looks the wing tank may have been hit. It must have been
61 b78710 : probbaly the ones associated with the hydraulic system on the failed engine. on the 340's that would be the blue system. cant speak for the 380. i ex
62 Post contains images fca767 : Thanks for the info
63 Carls : I have not read the whole thread so please apologize me if this has been answered yet. From pictures and video one can clearly see that the landing ge
64 b78710 : the fwd puncture is certainly nowhere near a fuel tank. i would have thought the puncture further back is still fwd of the fwd spar. can't say for su
65 MSPNWA : Could have been a lot worse. Shrapnel going through wings, cowling falling to the ground, etc. Someone could have been killed. RR had better work this
66 kmz : i remember when the ETIHAD A346 had the accident in Toulouse prior delivery, one of the engines also kept running until the fire fighters put it out.
67 Post contains images Pe@rson : Funny that this was one of the top items in the BBC's Six O'Clock news.
68 7673mech : Boroscope? Edit: Thinking about it a boroscope would only let you look at the blades and stators fore and aft.[Edited 2010-11-04 11:46:56]
69 SEPilot : The tests only involve, I believe, a 6 lb bird. There are many birds bigger than this, as Sully found out the hard way. I believe that UA232 is the o
70 WingedMigrator : The first part of the video is far more interesting than the landing itself. It clearly shows fuel spewing out from under the wing, inboard of canoe
71 Post contains images etherealsky : As the Trent is a triple-spool design, IPT is the intermediate pressure turbine disk, which is not something that would be checked outside of a hot s
72 EstorilM : Further proof of how cool the flight crew was during that announcement - they must of had some serious warnings going off in that cockpit. Kudos to Q
73 BOEING747400 : I'm afraid that the RR T900 series engines might have been manufactured defectively and poorly if it failed on an A380 aircraft; so can you really con
74 474218 : 3 November 1973; National Airlines DC10, over New Mexico: The aircraft had an uncontained failure of one of the wing mounted engines. A piece of the
75 baguy : I think we need to wait and see a) exactly what happened and b) whether it was a design flaw with the Trent 900 or just an isolated manufacturing fau
76 Post contains links kaitak : Channel 4 News, which I'm watching, has said that an airworthiness directive was issued in August relating to a possible probably with the internal pr
77 DocLightning : I think that making drastic assumptions when the stakes are that high is actually reasonable until the cause is found. The management at QF and SQ se
78 Post contains links and images bioyuki : Ulf has posted a new pic of the wing in flight. You can see the damage much more clearly: Based on keesje's earlier diagram, it looks like based on th
79 EstorilM : Wow Singapore Airlines has grounded it's fleet. edit: Sorry, some stupid mis-titled news article a few minutes ago. They have "delayed all flights pen
80 EPA001 : Is it? Are they checking intensively and taking off hours later or are they not flying at all? There is a lot of confusion about this in the European
81 N14AZ : Can anyone assess how much work and what kind of work will be required to repair the wing? Where can they do it?
82 ANITIX87 : Sadly, it's quite high. I know quite a few people on these boards who, even before this incident, would refuse to fly on any Airbus aircraft for what
83 Carls : Thank you! It looks actually like the fuel tank has been perforated. I di not see this damage in any other picture before.
84 FriendlySkies : Anyone bashing Airbus for this is incredibly ignorant. Similarly, without knowing all the details, jumping on RR's capability to design or manufacture
85 BlueFlyer : If, as it seems increasingly likely, the problem is with the IPT disk, and if it cannot be serviced without taking the engine off the aircraft, what i
86 Post contains images N14AZ : Please tell me that you forgot to add the smiley to indicate that this was meant ironically. Airbus already converted a RR-engined A 380 into an EA-e
87 litz : Considering that engine is still firmly attached to its wing, it would appear so ... Remember the ElAl 747 where an engine separation knocked the adj
88 Thorben : Allright, the aircraft wasn't that high, but already fast, and parts of the engine fans just broke off, and penetrated through the whole wing, also de
89 MD11Engineer : The only thing they could see during a boroscope inspection would be if there was an onset of blade clashing (e.g. the disk moved axially we.g. due t
90 QFFlyer : This is correct and apparently normal. In event of a failure of this nature all [fuel] valves default to open. Cheers
91 drew13btv : I am curious what QF is doing with the stranded passengers in SIN for now. I'm assuming it was a fairly booked flight and thus the capacity of more th
92 FriendlySkies : Absolutely not. There is no way a bird strike would cause an uncontained failure. Turbine casings are designed to contain all failures except discs,
93 timpdx : Just a question: on landing, how would it work in this situation: #1 engine running at cruise speed, #2 out of commission, #3 & 4 normal operation
94 MartynS : Aren't thrust reversers only on (in-board) engines #2 & #3 on an A380? So only #3 available in this case. Martyn[Edited 2010-11-04 14:06:12]
95 DocLightning : AA 191 also comes to mind. That seems like an odd design with a number of potential safety issues. Why is it designed that way?
96 AirNZ : While your point may be, to a degree, valid in some respects is it correct to question the integrity/quality of RR due to two 'incidents' you quote.
97 EstorilM : Can anyone elaborate on the fuel valve positions in the event of an engine failure? I'm very curious about this. Regardless of fuel valve position, yo
98 Post contains images KPDX : *shrug* I don't know... Maybe it is just unlucky, especially with how close these two events happened. Trust me, I'd be saying the same thing if this
99 Post contains links Lumberton : Trying times for RR; see this blog post from one of the AW&ST editors titled, "Rolls Rattled". http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs...=blogScript&
100 F9Animal : I agree. This type of engine failure can happen to any type. Luckily, this engine failure ended safely! QF will do whatever it can to get its passeng
101 Post contains links blobusus : http://www.aftonbladet.se/ (it's getting on toward the bottom of the page now) Is that not fuel leaking from that nearest hole? And it looks like if t
102 Post contains images Zkpilot : Correct. Only #2 and #3 have thrust reversers and since #2 was out and #1 was still running at a higher thrust setting I doubt they would have used #
103 ikramerica : That was my first thought, but I don't think it's due to this from what is developing. Absolutely. It's a testament to how well the A380 is designed
104 glideslope : Could not agree more. Great job by the flight deck. Most interested in other than all are ok, is what damage was internal in the wing. It's obvious a
105 glideslope : Yes, I would think this is more of an issue than an "apparent" IPT issue.
106 Post contains images Zkpilot : From the previous thread: 4 pilots and 22 crew... QF recently decided to cut back 1 cabin crew member from Business Class. The A380 does sit low norma
107 cpd : If we are still talking about the QF32 incident and not something else, then the altitude is not that high at the point where it occurred. It isn't f
108 huaiwei : Big deal indeed to the thousands of travellers who may have their travel plans affected if SQ's entire fleet of A380s get grounded, even if it was fo
109 Zkpilot : From SMH: "The QF10 London to Singapore service will be operated by an aircraft chartered from British Airways. A decision will be made later today re
110 Post contains images 328JET : I cannot read all answers in this and the old discussion as the day has only 24 hours... But as i wrote before, i am really looking forward to the res
111 mham001 : You seem quite strident in your first statement, then later state exactly what you object. Who else to jump on than RR for a design or manufacturer d
112 Post contains images fca767 : BBC News Guy (In Singapore!) Just called SIA Singapore Airways Why can't they get simple facts right?
113 Bullpitt : Hi all Sorry I've gone over most threads and I haven't seen if anyone has posted how many units of this engine are flying? Does anyone know this fact?
114 MANfan : Several people have eluded to this above, and I've not seen a definite answer, so does anyone qualified (pilot or engineer) on the A380 know what happ
115 TheCommodore : Just heard of the 37 a380's built, 20 have the RR engines. Singapore Lufthansa and Qantas Use the RR engines[Edited 2010-11-04 15:23:27]
116 OldAeroGuy : It's not clear that the fuel tank was punctured even though it appears that one of the holes was aft of the front spar. Certification requirements di
117 Post contains links blobusus : What is that stuff flowing out of the hole in http://www.aftonbladet.se/ ? Is that hydraulic fluid?
118 bananaboy : On ABC News this morning, they showed a video taken by one of the passengers of the Captain debriefing and explaining that the fact that the No1 engi
119 Post contains links PW100 : According to this the airplane had accumulated 831 flights and 8165 flight hours. Although 831 cycles/8165 hours generally is shorter than the first
120 OldAeroGuy : Don't know, I'm having trouble seeing the picture. If it's fuel, there could be a cert issue.
121 tdscanuck : There is *no* requirement for the cowling to hold all engine parts during an engine failure. A rotor burst in any engine will result in uncontained d
122 sandyb123 : BBC quoting 'passengers watch engine explode on entertainment system'. Whilst sensationalist IMO, is the camera footage recorded? Sandyb123
123 Goblin211 : I think this is a real life example of actually how the A380 can be safe in an event of an engine failure or any emergency situation for that matter.
124 JoeCanuck : I'm curious if one of the crew actually had a look at the wing to visually assess the damage while it was in flight. Would they be more inclined to ex
125 Post contains links jetlife2 : This is correct. I also liked your comment that trying to contain a rotor is not a good design path. Many decades have been devoted to making rotor d
126 BOAC911 : There have been many others. One that I've been thinking of all day is a LOT IL-62 in May 1987 on a flight from WAW to JFK. Interestingly, the engine
127 contrail25 : It is safe to say that approaches made with one or more engines out are flown at higher airspeeds. I can only speak on my experience (Lear 35s), but
128 penguins : All I can say is great pilots and thank God everybody is alright.
129 WingedMigrator : It's very clear that it was indeed punctured. See reply #70.
130 Post contains links 328JET : http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...clears-a380-fleet-for-service.html SIA cleared their A388s for service. So right now only QF grounded their A38
131 Starlionblue : It's a safety feature. Better to have an engine that keeps running than one that stops in case you lose some control lines. It's always a trade-off o
132 CBPhoto : Not likely, my bet is they had their hands full with the engine failure plus all of the other issues they had to deal with. Their is a chance though,
133 A380900 : I wonder whether they turned off the outside cameras via IFE as part of the emergency checklist...
134 Post contains links ULMFlyer : I hate to argue with professional pilots and I believe what you say about the Lear, but I'm also pretty confident that spoilers are taken into accoun
135 Starlionblue : Maybe. However I don't think they normally point at the engines. Not sure. However that doesn't mean it was leaking from a puncture in a tank. A fuel
136 LVPlanefan : I apologize if this was covered before, but didn't something similar to this happen a few years ago to a Southwest 737 at cruising altitude with a CFM
137 ikramerica : The post you are responding to has been lovingly edited by the moderators. I don't know why. Again, you are getting defensive for no reason. Or mad,
138 contrail25 : Nope I was wrong, just started typing without thinking (happens when you are 22 hours into your day). TRs are the only thing we don't take into consi
139 Starlionblue : There was an incident with a 320 I think. Transair or something. But it was a cowling departing, not a disk or blade failure.
140 BlueFlyer : Yes. So the thinking is it is safer to have the A380 run on three of four engines even though two would do just fine, than to have an out-of-control
141 tdscanuck : The video isn't nearly as clear as you seem to think. Although fuel tank damage would cause a plume, there isn't enough evidence in the video to tell
142 Gordomatic : If you are referring to what is coming out of the smaller hole farther back on the wing - whatever it is - it doesn't look like fuel. Besides fuel &a
143 IADCA : From reading both threads, here's what I see as a summary of the whole incident. Engine: BANG! Passengers: *Crap pants* Pilots: We had four engines. N
144 Post contains images contrail25 : You sir, have made my day. OMGEPICPOST!
145 Dizzy777 : As stated by others, it is possible.. Although it may be moisture in the air (similar idea to a contrail), the air in the Singapore region has a reas
146 Post contains links NAV20 : Qantas CEO Alan Joyce is on our radio at the moment, saying that they have agreed a programme of checks for all (six?) of their A380s. The checks will
147 Post contains images boacvc10 : May I suggest a cup of flavored, decaf for you then? I'm still amazed by the good luck favoring this flight - it could have been much, much worse. Th
148 DAL1044 : IADCA Thanks for that post. It made me laugh and I've kept up with every post on this issue without responding. You have made my next couple of days!
149 Post contains images flyorski : Awesome! Thanks a lot! That really does sum up the thread!
150 Post contains images 328JET : LOL. Great !!!
151 timpdx : and of course the long rant of a post that somehow the poster just has to inject personal political beliefs into a thread about an engine failure...bu
152 ULMFlyer : I buy that. However, if I had to go to Vegas and place a bet, I'd wager that the fuel tank was punctured, even if the resulting hole was small like t
153 Post contains links and images huaiwei : I am not sure why I am labelled "defensive" when I have nothing to defend. Rather, I find your automatic assumption that "PR" is involved extremely l
154 Post contains images Aesma : Nice summary IADCA, of course by the time I got to it I already had read both threads entirely Why would a big plane need to sit higher than a little
155 DAL1044 : timpdx I take it this is the political beliefs you are referring to? I simply don't see any mistatement on his part. I see his post as a very good at
156 328JET : The word "grounded" is normally used when specific aircrafts are held on ground by either the producer or the authorities. Both was not the case, so
157 kearnet : In looking at the photos of the engine, I'm noticing there's a distinct line where the cowling opens during reverse, such that past the point shows se
158 ETinCaribe : HAHAHA Most entertaining post I have read in a long time; while funny, most is actually accurate too --- talented IADCA is...
159 TheCommodore : Come off it ! He's being funny. Duh.
160 DAL1044 : I had that same question come to mind. I would think for all purposes it would seal very tightly. For sound and to keep it streamlined.
161 dashman : OMG I needed a good laugh. Probably because I have been drinkin too caf and watching voting results. In all seriousness a tribute to all the engineer
162 Post contains images kiwimex : My bet is that if they didn't, they woke up the spare pilot and he wandered down and had a good squizz out the windows from the top deck.
163 Post contains images Baroque : Umm. Seems the engines were looked at by LH presumably under a subcontract to RR. Interesting that LH seemed less concerned than either QF or SQ. Bir
164 ULMFlyer : I've got no idea, but in a related note the Australian (which I don't know how credible a source it is) reported earlier that:
165 Post contains images CBPhoto : That is if the big bang did not wake them up in the first place To be more specific, I bet non of the operating crew would have left their positions,
166 Post contains links and images WingedMigrator : The plume comes from several meters inboard of the engine. It doesn't seem to be anywhere near in line with the engine or the pylon. You can get orie
167 EstorilM : Yikes. Good find. edit: considering the size of the hole on the upper wing surface (as I mentioned earlier, it's larger than the individuals inspecti
168 4holer : Not often an "incident thread" inspires an addition to an RU list, but welcome to mine. That was brilliant!
169 tdscanuck : It's not so much as it's useful, as the failure modes analysis gets a lot more complicated if you don't. On the whole, it's a lot worse to have an en
170 Post contains links mham001 : Qantas has come out and publicly used the RR word. SYDNEY, Australia – .... "This is an engine issue and the engines have been maintained by Rolls-R
171 EstorilM : Well said, and obviously portrays a rather aggressive stance and position with their current relationship regarding RR. He could have played a lot mo
172 be77 : You have just saved me hours of reading through future threads...from now on whenever there is one of these huge threads, I will simply search IADCA,
173 Post contains links cpd : http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...g--20101105-17gi1.html?autostart=0 Not sure if it was posted before (too many replies) but this is a good examp
174 Post contains images Starlionblue : I'll chime in with the others and say that is one of the best posts I have ever read on this site. Certainly the best one since the SlamClick era. Un
175 Post contains links sebring : Not very reassuring http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/1...ness/as_singapore_qantas_emergency If this is a burst turbine disc, as per some informed sp
176 aerobus12 : I don't want to speculate too much, but considering the terrorism threats worldwide, the fact that this aircraft was operating between two very import
177 redundant : That pretty much sums up the relationship between (most) media and aviation-related events. This post made my day good sir. Thanks!
178 Post contains links tholin : Yep. Indeed, #4 ran for 2.5 hrs. until extinguished; #3 ran for over 9hrs. til it ran out of fuel, because it was jammed up against the blast wall, t
179 Post contains images Confuscius : During the emergency landing, I wonder if the passengers were told to "get in crash position!"
180 Post contains images Dizzy777 : Well it took 442 posts, but there it is "let's blame it on terrorism"...... ; EDIT: number of posts[Edited 2010-11-04 23:41:12]
181 JBirdAV8r : I doubt it. While this is certainly a rare catastrophic engine failure, its signatures are well in line with other disk failures. It would be incredi
182 AR385 : In my almost 7 years on this site, this has to be one of the best posts I´ve ever read. Thank you, you are one talented person.
183 BA319-131 : - This has to be one of the best posts ever! Well done, it's given me a big sile on this wet day.
184 keesje : Good morning. I haven't followed everything and are a bit time constrained. - Did somebody conclude all ready there was a fuel leak (based on the trai
185 Post contains links and images N14AZ : I would love to see the pictures taken by these gentlemen to see how the wing looks like from underneath: Source: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/846110-l
186 fca767 : What annoys me is that there's never a full video of the flight. At lease from when it happened and then full landing video. It's like the BA777, they
187 Starlionblue : Why would there be such a video?
188 fca767 : I don't know, just that seems strange to cut a video short.
189 Flyingfox27 : I guess its because you would want to brace yourself, check loads of videos when something happens, nearly most of the time the camera person veers th
190 bill142 : Because these things are happening during take off and landing and most sensible people are following instructions and have their electronic devices
191 teme82 : To me it looks like it. But did anyone else notice how the spoilers deployed on the wing if I saw correctly only few of the deployed. So it looks lik
192 Post contains links blooBirdie : Financial Times, London: Qantas may resume A380 flights. Lead sentence: Subscription only, I'm afraid...
193 Claude : Dear Cosmofly, On the A380, on the leading edge you have quite some place before the fuel tank. On this area you have only wires, the shafts for the
194 Post contains images cpd : As far as I may or may not be able to tell, people may or may not know, so instead - they might or might not just be resorting to nit-picking the pos
195 Dizzy777 : According to Chanel 9 (victoria) Australia. Apparently Engineers will do a borescope inspection of each engine, followed by engine runs for no less t
196 Schweigend : Seems obvious that it's an LPT failure -- The damage to the top part of the wing -- in the pictures we've all seen -- looks like a puncture or blow-o
197 Post contains links cpd : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sion-forced-emergency-landing.html Interesting facts on that page. I never knew the 747-400 had longer range th
198 fca767 : So you're telling me that the person who recorded the Runway Roll, just happened to wait till then to turn it on? You're still not allowed. And btw!
199 Post contains images fca767 : Yep! Get all the media on one plane and let them see how far they get, keep the last leg of the flight as a pacific crossing
200 fca767 : But like the guy on the ground filming the gliding 777, surely he doesn't just turn it off? there must be some censorship or something
201 Post contains links and images olympic472 : http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...p_asiapacific/view/1091529/1/.html Alan Joyce said that the other engine on the A380 engine could not be shut-d
202 JoeCanuck : Actually, that's not entirely true. At least some of the material bent up on the top of the wing is aluminum and there appears to be a hole back far
203 Dehowie : Qantas electronic policy permits still and video cameras. Pays to know what your talking about..
204 Schweigend : Well, it is interesting to know that the aircraft involved was the first one Qantas had delivered.[Edited 2010-11-05 03:14:15]
205 Post contains links faro : Off the Reuters this morning, QF is saying there may be a design issue with the T900: ""We believe this is probably most likely a material failure or
206 keesje : 8 hours is a long time.. We saw that. I think the collateral damage (slat, fuel leak, hydraulics, engine #1) is a bit worrying. -> Bad PR for RR (
207 Starlionblue : Ferry flight?
208 EBGARN : Five of QF's A380's, yes. But VH-OQA won't go anywhere anytime soon. I guess it could be out of service for months. Do you think the damages will be
209 faro : Collateral damage will always be present with uncontained rotor incidents unless and until the regulators change the rules. The only thing I can thin
210 MD11Engineer : He is right to do this. I´m quite sure that these engines haven´t been off the wing since the aircraft was delivered to QF. The turbine disk cannot
211 LTC8K6 : Well, this is what he said: Several posters here have also said the same thing.
212 Post contains links LTC8K6 : I thought that a borescope could not spot IPT disc problems? RR's instructions would seem to suggest it was not such a problem, if the channel 9 repor
213 MD11Engineer : On most aircraft you´ll need a voltage from the airframe to close the high pressure fuel valve. You wouldn´t want the engines shut down because the
214 cpd : Not sure, I was on an intercity train. Couldn't see the registration as my train was going too quickly so it passed overhead behind my carriage. Norm
215 Post contains images virginson937 : I believe, as i have heard somewhere QF are sending a 744 to get the passengers?? Not entirely sure. Any word? Will
216 LTC8K6 : Yes, I know. I was questioning reply 201.
217 Starlionblue : Gah. That's just. ARGH! Just shoot me!
218 Post contains images LTC8K6 : Only shot I saw that sort of shows under the wing. Those holes on top are big.
219 Post contains images TN486 : lol, bloody brilliant, well done mate. Highly credible Yes.......... Allan Joyce is becoming known for his honesty, and enthusiasm. He does not say a
220 Post contains images AirbusA6 : As an aside, it's interesting how much more media interest there has been in an incident, where normal emergency procedures were carried out correctly
221 Post contains links Dizzy777 : This might shed a little light (probably less than a $2 mini torch) on why they are doing borescope inspections. http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/811
222 LTC8K6 : Wouldn't they already have done these inspections?
223 LTC8K6 : The Cuban ATR-72 crash was covered this morning on my local stations here in North Carolina.
224 faro : Sad to say but first world lives have much greater media value than 3rd world ones. But then there is also the Whalejet issue factored in, so there i
225 Dizzy777 : Not necessarily, if the engine hrs / cycles are within the allowable time frame, they may not have been due for another check yet EDIT: Note the AD i
226 LTC8K6 : Yes, that's what I was trying to figure. How many flight cycles since the revised directive became effective on 8/18?
227 Post contains links Lumberton : Who was it that said "there's no such thing as bad publicity"? They were wrong. Qantas Fears Engine Design Issue After Airbus Drama
228 Post contains links Claude : @ JoeCanuck, you were right, fuel tank have been damaged i saw it on this link : http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/811...ety-body-warned-about-jets-eng
229 Post contains links Dizzy777 : Found the 15 Jan 2010 portion of the AD at http://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/easa_pad_09_136.zip/AD_2010-0008R1_2 Updated versions of the AD refer to upda
230 Baroque : Or that the 747 flew so much slower than the 380?? Wonder how long before the Leprechaun has to withdraw that comment.
231 Baroque : How about putting them up in hotels overnight before sending them on their merry way to SYD?
232 4tet : I would like to bring some light here, 38ºC is NOT the Jet A1 IGNITION temperature, but the FLASH POINT, wich is the temperature at the fuel an vapo
233 NZdsgnr : the plane was flying for a couple of hours after it happened fuel dumping... now that would've made a very long and unintersting video.
234 StickShaker : Along with a few people on Bantam Island (near Singapore) where parts of the disk landed. I assume RR will eventually recover these. Regards, StickSh
235 Post contains images EstorilM : I'm curious about the source which noted the "54 error messages" the pilots were dealing with. Does anyone know if these could be ACARS messages? ...s
236 Pihero : True, but the manufacturer also hs to produce trest results for degraded braking devices : Anti-skid...inop brakes...spoilers...reversers...etc... I
237 TravelAVNut : Now I could have sworn that I´ve read all the posts in this thread, but I missed this one. Not that I´m discounting your claim, but of which source
238 airbazar : You make very good points however i think you missed mine and I don't find our statements contradictory. All the examples you provide occured with ai
239 Post contains links and images EstorilM : Yeah like I said, people didn't seem to pay much attention to it Source: "The Australian" http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...blast/story-e6frg95x
240 ANITIX87 : Thanks for the detailed explanation! Amazing, amazing post. And thank you for throwing in the particular bit i quoted. TIS
241 bralo20 : Sorry, my fault, translated it from Dutch into English
242 TravelAVNut : Aaw thanks dude! Dont sound to me like ACARS though, they are normally routed to the Maintance dept. if I understand correctly.
243 Aesma : Thanks for the answer. 8h with cruise power ? Let's pray they'll put the wheel chocks ! Are you sure they were heavy ? I asked already but nobody cou
244 Post contains images EstorilM : Well that's what I'm trying to figure out, since there would be a lot more "buzz" about ACARS messages since people can just start texting their budd
245 rameshksm : Actually it doesn't seem like they are not sure of it themselves...the table says A380 range is 8000mi, but the text to the left says 9424mi. Some pa
246 764 : Assuming a few rounding errors, 8000nm could come out to be 9424mi. Maybe that's the issue?
247 FriendlySkies : I'm not saying RR should not be questioned, and I'm assured they are questioning themselves more than anyone. I was referring more to people who are
248 BOEING747400 : Thank god that the A380 engines can be changeable to EA just in case RR T900 is found to be unsafe! Otherwise, it would have been a waste of aircraft!
249 kalvado : Just wonder what makes you believe it's statistically insignificant.. One could claim that any plane crash is on-of-a-kind, statistically insignifica
250 Post contains images JohnKrist : Well, you don´t think they would re-engineer the pylons to fit other engines rather than scrapping huge severely expensive air frames? Regarding fue
251 Dano1977 : A sensilbe post.... An aero engine is a mechanical entity. and anything mechanical can and will go wrong at some point during its life. It could be d
252 StuckInCA : I take exception with some parts of what you're saying here. It's not fair to say that anything mechanical "will go wrong at some point during it's l
253 FriendlySkies : When you look at a pool of how many RR engines have or are operating worldwide over the past 50+ years, compared to the number that have experienced
254 Aesma : Yes. The 744 (including ER) design range is less than 8000nm anyway. I think you sound like a broken record. Such change (including buying the engine
255 SEPilot : Thanks for the info; I did not know of this one. And while it did cause a fatality, it did not cause a crash, which was my point. I refuse to fly on
256 kalvado : Well, those are just words. Any numeric criteria? I have one, if you will: ETOPS certification requires estimated probability of dual engine failure
257 Post contains images AR385 : Here´s another one: It´s an AR 747-287B FCO-EZE [Edited 2010-11-05 12:35:50]
258 rameshksm : But it is not zero. And as life often reminds us, just having the likelihood of something be extremely small does not mean it never happens.
259 Dano1977 : I understand where you are coming from If something has moving parts, then at some point, something will go wrong, doesn't matter if its a widget tha
260 FriendlySkies : I'm not going to dig up the entire operating history of every aircraft engine ever made. Probability of dual engine failure and probability of rotor
261 kalvado : I beg your pardon, but how all that relates to the original statement of "event being statistically insignificant"?
262 Thorben : Great post. Reminds me of Goethe's "Faust II" introduction.
263 StuckInCA : Sure. I never said anything to counter that. What I objected to was this statement: which says that it WILL go wrong WITHIN it's life. That's simply
264 Post contains links blobusus : The video on: http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/811...ety-body-warned-about-jets-engines At about 35 seconds, that sure does look like a fuel leak from
265 b78710 : the aircraft will be "talking" to the ground. we can look up our 340's post flight reports whilst the aircraft is still in the air. i can only imagin
266 EstorilM : Well, that's what initially made me ask the question actually. I think it was in one of the AF-related threads or articles that I think someone said
267 Aesma : But something can be well designed and fail anyway, because the design called for excellent reliability but not one in a billion or whatever. Because
268 StuckInCA : I'm not sure what you're suggesting. Maybe it's a language thing? I think you'd be hard pressed to find many mechanical designs which are safety crit
269 Post contains images rameshksm : Got it. Makes sense. Put my thoughts/responses down to the E.S.L problem (English as Second Language).
270 ER757 : Based on the photos, videos and posts here, can anyone make an educated guess as to how long it may take to get this aircraft repaired and back in ser
271 Post contains links moderators : Please continue the discussion here: QF A380 SIN-SYD Engine Failure, Part 3 (by moderators Nov 5 2010 in Civil Aviation) Any posts that appear after t
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