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Skyteam Roll Call (Current, Future, & Potential Members).   
User currently offlineglobalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 940 posts, RR: 3
Posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10499 times:

Currently there are 13 carriers that are members of SKYTEAM:
Aeroflot (SU)
Aeromexico (AM)
Air Europa (UX)
Air France (AF)
Alitalia (AZ)
China Southern (CZ)
Czech (OK)
Delta (DL)
Kenya Airways (KQ)
KLM (KL)
Korean Air (KE)
Tarom (RO)
Vietnam (VN)

From recent press releases the following have been accepted into the alliance:
Aerolineas Argentinas (AR) - I guess this includes Austral as well (AU)?
China Airlines (CI)
China Eastern (MU)
MEA (ME)
Shanghai Airlines (FM)

Have I missed any others? I have heard that the following are leaning to SKYTEAM but I am not aware of any acceptance announcements:
Garuda (GA)
Malaysian (MH)
Saudia (SV)
Virgin Blue/V Australia (DJ/VA)

Is there any other news from SKYTEAM? Their website is not really updated. Cheers!

[Edited 2010-11-04 10:11:39]


Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 10473 times:

Quoting globalflyer (Thread starter):
Is there any other news from SKYTEAM? Their website is not really updated. Cheers!

Aerolineas Argentinas has been given an offer to join SkyTeam, but they're a basket-case of an operation, with dual hubs ops in Buenos Aires (EZE/AEP).



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineglobalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 940 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10414 times:

Thanks! I knew I was missing something. I have updated the original post... any others?


Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10340 times:

Quoting globalflyer (Thread starter):
I guess this includes Austral as well (AU)?

Did not hear anything about AU. AR was the only airline invited, IINM. Frankly, SkyTeam better get at least AV/TA into the alliance soon, or South America will be all but shut out for them.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10261 times:

Quoting globalflyer (Thread starter):
China Eastern (MU)
Shanghai Airlines (FM)

I thought it's accepting MU but now uncertain due to MU/FM merger, since FM is Star ?

Quoting globalflyer (Thread starter):
Aeroflot (SU)
Aeromexico (AM)
Air Europa (UX)
Air France (AF)
Alitalia (AZ)
China Southern (CZ)
Czech (OK)
Delta (DL)
Kenya Airways (KQ)
KLM (KL)
Korean Air (KE)
Tarom (RO)
Vietnam (VN)

Sadly, the best brand in terms of service reputation is only KE. Many of the others are just flooding the markets with seats hoping high volume makes up for low-yields. Not to mention dead-beats like AZ and RO.


User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8602 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10213 times:
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Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 4):
I thought it's accepting MU but now uncertain due to MU/FM merger, since FM is Star ?

FM was Star , they left a few days ago ( 31/10 ) .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently onlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5347 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10170 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
FM was Star , they left a few days ago ( 31/10 ) .

Indeed. And here is the PR from delta.com indicating that they will be joining Skyteam:
http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1174



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10083 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 4):
I thought it's accepting MU but now uncertain due to MU/FM merger, since FM is Star ?

FM was Star , they left a few days ago ( 31/10 ) .

Hopefully, AirChina, Asiana, and ANA have sufficient links to mainland China that the loss is FM will minimally disrupt Star's connectivity


User currently offlinegoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1857 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9951 times:

MEA is not yet officially confirmed, although very likely

User currently onlineMEA330 From Lebanon, joined Aug 2002, 288 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9875 times:

Looks like MEA should be joining Skyteam next year.

Press Release on MEA website:

MEA to become a full member of Skyteam
02 November 2010
On the occasion of their visit to Lebanon, a delegation of Air France headed by Mr. Pierre-Henry Gourgeon, CEO of Air France, met with a delegation of Middle East Airlines Air Liban , headed by Mr. Mohamad El-Hout Chairman- Director General of Middle East Airlines on 1st of November.


Both delegations reviewed the present state of their bilateral cooperation, and celebrated the 12th anniversary of a mutually rewarding codeshare partnership between Beirut and Paris.

During the meeting, Mr. El Hout confirmed that the Board of Middle East Airlines has approved his proposition that MEA should officially plan to become a Full member of Skyteam Global Alliance.


Mr. Pierre-Henry Gourgeon received this information with great pleasure and committed that Air France would sponsor and support Middle East Airlines in this endeavour.


User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 890 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9840 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 4):
Sadly, the best brand in terms of service reputation is only KE

I guess you forgot AF (the Economy product is still among the best in Europe, and the J and F are still very comfortable and of high quality) and DL (which is as good as any usa carrier: UA or AA and BizElite is of great quality).

Having flown a lot with SU, you would be surprised about their service: from Moscow to Europe the Business Class on the A32S fleet has a real seating of 2x2 seats, as F class on domestic us flights, with a 3 course meals service, and Economy Class with 2 hot meals choice. With a modern fleet of nearly 70 brand new A32S and new A330.
A lot of Swiss bankers flying from GVA to Moscow prefer 100 times the SU business class than the LX business class, because of higher comfort and better food and service (including DVDs).

OK is as good as LO, very acceptable business class, and Prague airport is the busiest in Eastern Europe.

CZ is definitively better than CA in China!! Look at the last trip report with CZ from LOS to DXB!

And soon JetAirways should join SkyTeam.

AZ is recovering step by step: fleet upgraded and renewed with A32S and A330, new Magnifica Class, and Italian domestic market is huge, one of the busiest in Europe with Spain, France and Germany.

So Skyteam remains a good strategic alliance, missing urgently Malaysia to complete the additions of CI and MU.


User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 9678 times:

GA is expected to announce the deal to join SkyTeam within a month.

User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1784 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9337 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 4):
Sadly, the best brand in terms of service reputation is only KE. Many of the others are just flooding the markets with seats hoping high volume makes up for low-yields. Not to mention dead-beats like AZ and RO.

SkyTeam had a decent group of initial members (DL, AF, KL, KE), but since then they really have done a weak job of attracting the most attractive carriers. Take Latin America for example where there's currently AV/TA, CM, Gol without an alliance, and LA/JJ which will have to evaluate alliances next year post-merger approval. And yet Skyteam goes ahead and signs Aerolineas Argentinas? Not a way to show you are serious about being a strong alliance to other potential partners in the region.


User currently offlinethediplomat From Ireland, joined Jun 2006, 382 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9245 times:

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 12):
SkyTeam had a decent group of initial members (DL, AF, KL, KE), but since then they really have done a weak job of attracting the most attractive carriers.

CZ - largest airline in Asia, with modern fleet and quality domestic service
MU - Largest carrier in Shanghai - soon to be capital of Asia
SU - largest airline in Eastern Europe (and a good airline, with excellent new hub in SVO)

Skyteam now dominates China.


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1784 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9212 times:

Quoting thediplomat (Reply 13):
CZ - largest airline in Asia, with modern fleet and quality domestic service
MU - Largest carrier in Shanghai - soon to be capital of Asia
SU - largest airline in Eastern Europe (and a good airline, with excellent new hub in SVO)

Skyteam now dominates China.

That's three out of the other 10 or so carriers that Skyteam has recruited since starting. And even then:

CZ - large, but was nobody's first choice due to a weak international network.
MU - very bottom of the barrel Chinese carrier in terms of quality.
SU - largest in Eastern Europe yes, but when they joined the airline and SVO were a far cry from what they are now.


User currently onlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5347 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 9076 times:

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 14):
MU - very bottom of the barrel Chinese carrier in terms of quality.

Perhaps so, but you'd better believe that the other alliances would have loved to have won them over. Why do you think AA was quick in announcing LAX-PVG once MU chose Skyteam over Oneworld?

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 14):
SU - largest in Eastern Europe yes, but when they joined the airline and SVO were a far cry from what they are now.

Indeed, but SU can also serve as an example of an airline transforming itself. Just because some of Skyteam's airlines may not be the best of the best today, doesn't mean that this will always be the case.

[Edited 2010-11-04 17:34:53]


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7616 posts, RR: 42
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8886 times:

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 10):
nd soon JetAirways should join SkyTeam.

I think that is just speculation.

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 11):
A is expected to announce the deal to join SkyTeam within a month.

Really?

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 12):
SkyTeam had a decent group of initial members (DL, AF, KL, KE),

KL is not a founding member. They joined much later as a result of their acquisition by AF. AM is, however, a founder of the alliance together with DL, AF and KE. And btw, I think AM is a quality carrier.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1784 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8800 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 15):

Perhaps so, but you'd better believe that the other alliances would have loved to have won them over. Why do you think AA was quick in announcing LAX-PVG once MU chose Skyteam over Oneworld?

Not because MU would have been their first choice, but mostly because oneworld has been very late to the ballgame in China, in part because CX probably made them believe they would enter the market with more force in the 90s and early 2000's.

I must say that Skyteam did move aggressively in lesser developed aviation markets like Russia, China and even Africa (Kenya now and South African at one point). My critique of them is that in the rest of the world (Southeast Asia, Northeast Asia, Latin America) they have not sought out quality, even when it has been available.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 15):
Indeed, but SU can also serve as an example of an airline transforming itself. Just because some of Skyteam's airlines may not be the best of the best today, doesn't mean that this will always be the case.

Yes, but that is totally up to the carrier. What are the odds of a big transformation happening with AR or SV?

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 16):
KL is not a founding member. They joined much later as a result of their acquisition by AF. AM is, however, a founder of the alliance together with DL, AF and KE. And btw, I think AM is a quality carrier.

You are right about KL. Although state-owned I do agree about AM being a good carrier - my earlier point was that since the founding Sky has really not focused much on quality if you look at their list of newer and potential members.


User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8602 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8784 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 17):
I must say that Skyteam did move aggressively in lesser developed aviation markets like Russia, China and even Africa (Kenya now and South African at one point).

South African was never a member of Skyteam .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1784 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8768 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 18):
South African was never a member of Skyteam .

No, but they were heavily courted while after they began code-sharing with DL in the late 90's and early 2000's (when they flew to ATL and FLL).


User currently offlineHiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 872 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8537 times:

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 17):
What are the odds of a big transformation happening with AR or SV?

Since you've dragged SV into this....

Actually a lot is happening at SV. The airline is well into a major restructuring.

Headcount is being slashed, with employees encouraged to take "early retirement".

The company has been split into 5 major business units. These units are being spun off one at a time. First a 49% stake of the catering unit has been sold, then 30% of cargo. Ground services has been merged with local competitors. The maintenance department is being developed into a regional MRO hub. Finally once all that is done, the core airline will be privatised with a minority stake being sold to a strategic partner.

The IT system was completely overhauled, with new booking and crewing systems.

Major fleet renewal: 15 A321, 35 A320, 8 A333, 12 B77W, 12 B789 ordered, and in case of the airbusses mostly delivered. These complement 15 E170, 23 B772 and 4 B744 already in service. (There's also some wet-leased metal for the interim period)

There's also a new cabin product, and the route network has been retuned for higher frequencies and more non-stop flights in smaller planes.


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7616 posts, RR: 42
Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8406 times:

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 17):
Although state-owned I do agree about AM being a good carrier

Well, AM is not state-owned by any measure as of today. It is owned by a group of wealthy Mexicans (originally 14 but now more) with an affiliate of Citigroup as their strategic partner. These owners teamed up to acquire the company in 2007. The previous owners were the federal government and the public, although the float was quite insignificant.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3269 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8305 times:

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 10):
And soon JetAirways should join SkyTeam.

Is this based on firm knowledge or just speculation? 9W has been very opportunistic and has been signing code share agreements left right and center - including a whole bunch with *A carriers.

They don't seem serious about Skyteam.



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1784 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7723 times:

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 20):

Thanks for the info. Any idea if a foreign strategic partner could be considered?

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 21):
Well, AM is not state-owned by any measure as of today. It is owned by a group of wealthy Mexicans (originally 14 but now more) with an affiliate of Citigroup as their strategic partner. These owners teamed up to acquire the company in 2007. The previous owners were the federal government and the public, although the float was quite insignificant.

   My bad. I had forgotten about the deal with the Banamex consortium.

Quoting Nimish (Reply 22):
Is this based on firm knowledge or just speculation? 9W has been very opportunistic and has been signing code share agreements left right and center - including a whole bunch with *A carriers.

I had read this a few days ago:

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...comm&id=news/avd/2010/10/27/11.xml


User currently offlineairlinerfanpgf From France, joined Nov 2008, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6620 times:

AF already codeshares with SV on the CDG-RUH-JED routes....

25 Delimit : Please feel free to back up your bias with numbers, otherwise statements like this are basically worthless. The problem with SV is not the airline; i
26 A388 : As I live in the Americas region (Caribbean to be more precise), I agree that Skyteam hasn't done a lot to increase their Latin American presence. Att
27 LJ : KLM didn't join due to its acquisition by AF. KL/NW decided to join Skyteam because their own alliance (WIngs Alliance) was going nowhere. Both joine
28 EddieDude : Well, both things (i.e., the merger of AF and KL, and the accession of KL, NW and CO) happened in year 2004, so I am sure the merger (or the prospect
29 OP3000 : Gol will probably be Skyteam's next member in Latin America, given that AV/TA seem to be leaning towards Star, LATAM towards oneworld, and CM just le
30 globalflyer : A bit off topic, but the proposed WINGS Alliance in the early 1990s, who were the proposed members besides NW/KL? Any others?
31 OP3000 : Yes - Continental and Alitalia were also to be part of it.
32 globalflyer : Thanks that makes sense as they would eventually all go to Skyteam.
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