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New UA Express Upguages At EWR Already?  
User currently offlinejadedchameleon From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6579 times:

I frequently fly CO OMA-EWR routes (6-8 times per year), and was planning out a trip at the end of February, and am seeing Shuttle America E-170s being listed on this route for the 7:30am flight?! However, when I click on the seat map, it clearly is showing the ERJ-145 seatmap.

Is this upguage real? I will be extremely pleased if it is (not a fan of the ERJ-145, but direct routes save a lot of time). I wouldn't have expected this kind of upguage at EWR already. Anyone else seeing this sort of thing?

[Edited 2010-11-08 12:10:00]

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1540 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6537 times:

Quoting jadedchameleon (Thread starter):
Is this upguage real?

Yes. Here in MSP starting in February, MSP-IAH gets 2 CR7s and MSP-EWR gets 4 E70s. There are a lot of other changes including EWR-OMA.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineflyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2000 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6528 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 1):
Yes. Here in MSP starting in February, MSP-IAH gets 2 CR7s and MSP-EWR gets 4 E70s. There are a lot of other changes including EWR-OMA.

According to OAG, showing 2x E70s and 1x ER4


User currently offlineevanbu From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6445 times:

Will someone please upgrade the DSM-IAH morning flight to something bigger than an E-145...It's in need of an upgrade. Full, full, and full...

User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2763 posts, RR: 33
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6312 times:

Look for the Q's to invade IAH....


IAH-TUL is heavy in Q400's in March.



No info
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6049 times:

I can't find EWR-OMA on UA.com as a nonstop, only through ORD. Although EWR-ORD seems to finally be loosing the gojet CR7s in favor of E170s.


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1610 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5996 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 5):
I can't find EWR-OMA on UA.com as a nonstop, only through ORD.

At this point, the flights being flown by Shuttle America E70's out of the CO hubs are being given CO flight numbers and thus are only showing up on CO's website. The flights aren't being treated as UAX, but instead as CO Express flight with a UA codeshare. As a result, I'm only seeing them show up on UA's website if part of a connection, but not offered as new non-stop markets.


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2853 posts, RR: 30
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5992 times:

It was inevitable that UA would upgrade the flights out of IAH and EWR, which were either mainline or 50 seat RJs. However, I did not think it would happen until the scope clause issues are worked out - there's a reason why CO doesn't have a >50 seat RJ op already in place. Either way, shifting regional a/c around is much easier than cross-fleeting mainline, so it's the logical first step in the merger process. We still need to get unified contracts, branding decisions (F, Y+, etc.), and an SOC in place...


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineadxmatt From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 950 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5861 times:

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 4):
Look for the Q's to invade IAH....


IAH-TUL is heavy in Q400's in March.

what are some of the other Q400 markets?

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 7):
shifting regional a/c around is much easier than cross-fleeting mainline, so it's the logical first step in the merger process

I heard that some mainline cross fleeting was to start in January. Does anyone know more about that?


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4234 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5802 times:

Quoting steex (Reply 6):

At this point, the flights being flown by Shuttle America E70's out of the CO hubs are being given CO flight numbers and thus are only showing up on CO's website. The flights aren't being treated as UAX, but instead as CO Express flight with a UA codeshare. As a result, I'm only seeing them show up on UA's website if part of a connection, but not offered as new non-stop markets.

Without a transition agreement in place with the pilots or a joint contract, how is this not a violation of CO's scope clause?


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16819 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5779 times:

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 4):
Look for the Q's to invade IAH....


IAH-TUL is heavy in Q400's in March.

I'm seeing Q400 flying increased at EWR too, lots of ERJs being replaced at EWR with Q400s and ERJ-170s.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1610 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5717 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 9):
Without a transition agreement in place with the pilots or a joint contract, how is this not a violation of CO's scope clause?

I should've chosen my words more carefully. The flights that will be flown by Shuttle America to EWR, for example, are being sold with a CO flight number with the disclaimer "Flight CO XXXX is operated by SHUTTLE AMERICA DBA UNITED EXPRESS" rather than the usual "Flight CO XXXX is operated by EXPRESSJET AIRLINES INC DBA CO EXPRESS."

So, I would imagine that they are getting around the scope clause by officially stating them to be UAX flights with a CO codeshare. Operationally, though, their websites are treating them as CO flights first and making them available on CO's website as non-stops while not showing them amongst the results on UA's website.

I think this is fairly similar to when DL started flying 777's to NRT prior to final integration with NW, the result being that there were actually flights being flown with NW flight numbers on DL metal designated "Northwest XXX operated by Delta Air Lines." This was done because the flights legally had be to NW flights to utilize their NRT slots. Not done for exactly the same reason as UA/CO, but essentially the same result at the end of the day.

[Edited 2010-11-08 17:46:25]

[Edited 2010-11-08 17:47:04]

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16819 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5608 times:

Quoting adxmatt (Reply 8):
what are some of the other Q400 markets?

From IAH so far;

DAL, TUL, JAN, MFE,



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2763 posts, RR: 33
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5579 times:

Quoting adxmatt (Reply 8):
what are some of the other Q400 markets?

From my searching, all I can find is DAL and TUL for March 2, there's probably some more I just can't find them.



No info
User currently offlineFiveholer From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1013 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5355 times:

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 4):
IAH-TUL is heavy in Q400's in March.

They actually start in early February. I am NOT looking forward to deicing the Q again!  However, I don't mind riding on them, more spacious than the barbie jet.

Danny



Bring back Bethune!
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5162 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5303 times:

Where are these Q400s gonna park and how about the UAX CR7s and E70s at IAH? Are they headed to Terminal B?


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1519 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5237 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 9):
Without a transition agreement in place with the pilots or a joint contract, how is this not a violation of CO's scope clause?

It is a scope violation. Will be fun to see whether CAL ALPA mans up and drags them into court or rolls over.


User currently offlineflyhossd From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 849 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5196 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 7):
However, I did not think it would happen until the scope clause issues are worked out - there's a reason why CO doesn't have a >50 seat RJ op already in place.

As you suspect, it's a Scope violation, at least in CO ALPA's opinion

Quoting apodino (Reply 9):
Without a transition agreement in place with the pilots or a joint contract, how is this not a violation of CO's scope clause?

See above.

Quoting steex (Reply 11):
I should've chosen my words more carefully. The flights that will be flown by Shuttle America to EWR, for example, are being sold with a CO flight number with the disclaimer "Flight CO XXXX is operated by SHUTTLE AMERICA DBA UNITED EXPRESS"

Scope violation, again according to CO ALPA.

Quoting steex (Reply 11):
So, I would imagine that they are getting around the scope clause by officially stating them to be UAX flights with a CO codeshare. Operationally, though, their websites are treating them as CO flights first

Ah yes, the attorneys get richer.

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 16):
It is a scope violation. Will be fun to see whether CAL ALPA mans up and drags them into court or rolls over.

Expect litigation by CO ALPA soon. Did I already say the "attorneys get richer?"



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1610 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5183 times:

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 17):

Scope violation, again according to CO ALPA.

I don't have a horse in the race and certainly people far smarter/richer than I will ultimately sort it out. I think the CO ALPA have a valid reason for fighting this flying, but I assume that UA/CO will respond that this is no different than when CO codeshares on a UA flight from ORD. It may be one of those cases where the CR7/E70 flying meets the letter but not the spirit of the agreement, but mind you I don't even know the verbiage. Either way, would be interesting to see the result if it is worked out in court.


User currently offlineaviationbuff08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 346 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3340 times:

Wow, this is not exactly the way to go when you are trying to merge two completely different cultures into one. This will only get the unions unified against management, and ultimately will result in a very divided work groups.

This is not a good management move IMHO..


User currently offlinejunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3164 times:

Quoting aviationbuff08 (Reply 19):
Wow, this is not exactly the way to go when you are trying to merge two completely different cultures into one. This will only get the unions unified against management, and ultimately will result in a very divided work groups.

Good grief. It's not that much gloom and doom. If the unions ultimately aren’t happy about it, it won’t happen right now. That’s all.


User currently offlineCaspian27 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3005 times:

Quoting junction (Reply 20):
Good grief. It's not that much gloom and doom. If the unions ultimately aren’t happy about it, it won’t happen right now. That’s all.

That's not how UA management works. They are EXPERTS at pitting one employee group against another.

Now they're putting CO/UA/S5/OO in the ring together...should be interesting.



Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
User currently onlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3388 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2807 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 1):
Yes. Here in MSP starting in February, MSP-IAH gets 2 CR7s and MSP-EWR gets 4 E70s. There are a lot of other changes including EWR-OMA.

Finally, I've decided to stick with US on PHL-MSP for the time being because it wasn't worth driving to EWR only to sit in an ERJ for 3 hours


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