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NYC Airspace Redesign To Send JFK Flights Over NJ  
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6420 times:

The long awaited FAA NYC airspace redesign is going to be implemented this Spring, big changes will mean most JFK departures will transit through NJ skies.

Obviously this is stirring up debate;

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201...aa_plans_redesign_of_nj_ny_ai.html

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/11/...ign-could-put-more-planes-over-nj/


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinepliersinsight From United States of America, joined May 2008, 499 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6306 times:

"New Jersey Coalition Against Aircraft Noise"

Ha, there is a lot more in Jersey to be afraid of than airplane noise. How much noise could there be anyway in central Jersey. Wouldn't most aircraft be at or near cruise by then?


User currently offlineJohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1687 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6221 times:

I live underneath one of those gray arrows in Connecticut and can report that aircraft noise is a non-issue. Lots of fun to sit on the deck with the 'nocs, though, and watch the parade on a warm summer evening.

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6002 times:

Those departures are going to be pretty high up by the time they pass over NJ. Traffic on the roads would probably make more noise than that.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3671 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5755 times:

I'm actually kinda disappointed that none of the new routes send planes over my house on Long Island  

I currently live just a tiny bit to the east of that left turn coming off the 4's and 13's. I actually do have planes occasionally flying right over my house, but usually they make that turn a little bit to the west. Doesn't look like that's going to change.

Anyway, these whiners in New Jersey should hear what a takeoff really sounds like! They're not going to be able to hear anything at that distance.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5710 times:

Quoting JohnJ (Reply 2):
I live underneath one of those gray arrows in Connecticut and can report that aircraft noise is a non-issue. Lots of fun to sit on the deck with the 'nocs, though, and watch the parade on a warm summer evening.

I second that, and we have the same summer hobbies   . We have a summer home on the L.I. Sound in CT, and noise is a non-factor. My kids and I though do like firing up the scanner and listening to departure and seeing if we can see the outbounds.


User currently offlinehz747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1710 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5628 times:
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Quoting spacecadet (Reply 4):
Anyway, these whiners in New Jersey should hear what a takeoff really sounds like! They're not going to be able to hear anything at that distance.

I have a friend who lives right off the way in Newtown, Sydney, and when a plane takes off, you can't here anything, even a car alarm, for at least 15-20 seconds... It's awesome!



Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5003 times:

If we have to consider EWR a 'New York' airport, they have to put up with our New York noise. I won't even mention the New Jersey 'smell' that we have to endure in Staten Island (ooops, too late, I did)


Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4921 times:

This is kinda like New Jersey complaining about the loud sounds of a music club opening up in Brooklyn.

User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4893 times:

The privilege of living close to NY has a price. If they don't like it, NY should offer them a relocation incentive to upstate, all the way up there close to the Canadian border.


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User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4872 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Traffic on the roads would probably make more noise than that.

Now Mir, you know that these people don't hear noise they only see it!   



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4864 times:

If the people of Howard Beach can live with it, thats me included in that, then the good people of NJ should be able to suck it up.


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5478 posts, RR: 31
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4827 times:

They already have much to answer for with the jersey shore...they really must be punished somehow...


What the...?
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4772 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Those departures are going to be pretty high up by the time they pass over NJ. Traffic on the roads would probably make more noise than that.

Exactly. I have been on many flight heading to the west or down south that have taken off and gone right over NJ anyway, and many of my flights heading back to JFK have gone right over NJ on their way in. The areas where the new overflights will be taking place probably wouldn't even hear the aircraft passing overhead as they would be well above 10,000 feet already, even higher depending on the departing runway.



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineairportugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3717 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4766 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 7):
If we have to consider EWR a 'New York' airport, they have to put up with our New York noise. I won't even mention the New Jersey 'smell' that we have to endure in Staten Island (ooops, too late, I did)

I think this post sums it up fairly well. Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad!



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4634 times:

Could somebody explain to me in simple terms why this redesign hasn't been done until now?

User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4579 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 15):
Could somebody explain to me in simple terms why this redesign hasn't been done until now?

Politics  


User currently offlinejetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3018 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4521 times:

Does this redesign have potential to drop the strict slot limits at the New York airports? Airlines clearly want to expand, and anything that allows them to do so would be ideal.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4490 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 7):
. I won't even mention the New Jersey 'smell' that we have to endure in Staten Island (ooops, too late, I did)

Fresh Kills does stink bad, largest landfill in the world. It's in NYC though, not NJ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresh_Kills_Landfill



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4441 times:

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 17):
Does this redesign have potential to drop the strict slot limits at the New York airports?



Probably not, you can redesign until the end of time, but without a reduction of separation standards from what we have today on a runway, or more runways and taxiway/ramp space to avoid gridlock you can't put more traffic into the airport. A redesign might possibly free up some of the dependency each airport has on the others in close proximity and smooth out the flow of traffic, but IMHO not dramatically change the slots.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4393 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 19):
Probably not, you can redesign until the end of time, but without a reduction of separation standards from what we have today on a runway, or more runways and taxiway/ramp space to avoid gridlock you can't put more traffic into the airport. A redesign might possibly free up some of the dependency each airport has on the others in close proximity and smooth out the flow of traffic, but IMHO not dramatically change the slots.

Very well put. JFK needs slots because of the international rush hours especially. Freeing up airspace helps gets the planes out of the area once up in the air, but they still have to depart off the same number of runways.

One thing that I am seeing on the diagram is that it *looks* like the departures off of the 13's will now do almost like a left downwind departure. That would be interesting. Maybe that means more departures off of 13L?



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4131 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 20):
the diagram is that it *looks* like the departures off of the 13's will now do almost like a left downwind departure. That would be interesting. Maybe that means more departures off of 13L?

And I'm sure using the FAA's highly touted NextGen program (yawn) making the SID/DP RNP with possibly some RF legs tossed in for good measure to control the containment in the turn and the speed. If a large number of the operators are not RNP certified then the SIDS/DP go unused for the most part except for Jet Blue as IIRC they are RNP certified.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineCGKings317 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 306 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3905 times:
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Here is a telling quote from the CBS news article linked from the OP:

Quote:

“We’re all still just a little bit scared,” she said. “When we see the planes low we’re thinking that it could be a terrorist attack.”

Perhaps that could be a result from living close to an airport? People need to understand that living in a urban area, near an airport, aviation related noise will always be a factor. Especially around New York City where a population of ~8 million and a thriving business and financial hub demands all these flights. If they do not want to hear all the noise, then they should move away from urban areas.

Me, I will take the sound of a 747 flying 200 metres over me any day of the week. On those days where I want more quiet, I will either go someplace else, or invest in ear protection devices.

My two cents...

~CGKings317  



I love ✈ & volcanoes but the 2 of them dont get along, just ask KLM867 & PH-BFC
User currently offlineaviationbuff08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 346 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3806 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 15):
Could somebody explain to me in simple terms why this redesign hasn't been done until now?

NIMBY's type folks-------->>> New Jersey Coalition Against Aircraft Noise


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