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US And TLV: Odd Route?  
User currently offlineUA2162 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 495 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8737 times:

At looking at the US international network, this one just seems out of place. I assume it's making money since they haven't canned it. However, I'm still surprised that US would even enter this market.

Has it been profitable for them? How are the loads? How do they compare to LY?

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2862 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8723 times:

Quoting UA2162 (Thread starter):
At looking at the US international network, this one just seems out of place.

Really? TLV doesn't seem as "out of place" as GIG, currently their sole South American destination...

Quoting UA2162 (Thread starter):
I'm still surprised that US would even enter this market.

You are? U.S.-Israel is a HUGE market, just ask CO, DL, and LY. With a very strong East Coast hub, US enjoys great connectivity on top of Philadelphia's O&D. Remember, Philly is one of America's most populous cities/metro areas. US has flown transatlantic for years now, and with Western Europe covered, TLV was the next logical step for them. I'm sure they are now exploring the possibility of additional destinations in that region - IST, CAI, DXB, etc.

Quoting UA2162 (Thread starter):
How do they compare to LY?

LY is known for its security measures, but not its outstanding service. The US A330s are new and very nice, probably better than most of the LY planes!



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineNZ001 From UK - England, joined Nov 2010, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8699 times:

I am constantly in and out of TLV from England, and I always get a glimpse of those fabulous US airways, CO and DL birds.
TLV is a big market and I can tell you from experience, that most Israeli's prefer not to travel LY.

LY has brilliant security, but the services are poor.


User currently offlineUSAA2012 From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8676 times:

As an employee of US at PHL I can you assure that PHL-TLV is a very profitable. The flight frequently sells out and makes a ton of money off of freight. That route has been doing so well(mostly due to freight) that there has been talk of adding a second daily flight in the morning to TLV.

User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1297 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8653 times:

Quoting USAA2012 (Reply 3):
That route has been doing so well(mostly due to freight) that there has been talk of adding a second daily flight in the morning to TLV.

I have heard that as well, but that won't happen until at the earliest 2013 when US gets more widebodies


User currently offlineN757ST From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 8371 times:

If I remember right, TLV is US's most lucrative route.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16855 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 8251 times:

PHL serves Southeast Pennsylvania and Southern New Jersey market, New Jersey has one of the largest population of people of Jewish decent in the Country. CO has two daily at EWR, as well as El Al. Those routes serve Northern NJ, US's PHL-TLV route serves Southern NJ and Southeast Pennyslvania.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinesbon From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7994 times:

Quoting USAA2012 (Reply 3):
[T]here has been talk of adding a second daily flight in the morning to TLV.

I find it simply amazing that US could double-up TLV before LHR!


User currently offlineca2ohHP From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 954 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7854 times:

Quoting N757ST (Reply 5):
If I remember right, TLV is US's most lucrative route.

Actually FRA is, but TLV does deliver a decent return.


User currently offlinePlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7754 times:

It's a compelling enough offering that the 10th grade class at our school in Denver flew US to TLV this past year. It's a good connection. Also it's not just Jews flying to Israel, many Americans go and it's a good connection.

User currently offlineUSAA2012 From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7690 times:

Quoting sbon (Reply 7):
I find it simply amazing that US could double-up TLV before LHR!

British Airways has two daily PHL-LHR flights so I doubt US would ever be able to double-up on that route.


User currently offlineNZ001 From UK - England, joined Nov 2010, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7559 times:

Quoting sbon (Reply 7):
I find it simply amazing that US could double-up TLV before LHR!

You'll be surprised. TLV is growing quickly !


User currently offlinebgm From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7485 times:

Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 9):
Also it's not just Jews flying to Israel, many Americans go

Are they mutually exclusive?  


User currently offlineflybaby From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7415 times:

CO's 2x772 daily EWR to TLV is considered a money printer for them so it makes sense that US, with smaller equipment, would do well also.

In those instances when US's flights have a lower pax load, the cargo hold is filled up chock full of additional freight (this only applied to westbound flights) which ensures that the route is quite profitable all the time.


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13073 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7384 times:

I would also suspect that as PHL is a major airport for US, offering a number of connecting flights in other cities they serve throughout the USA, someone going to Israel from for example Pittsburgh or Charlotte, NC, can just buy one ticket on US as well as not have to go through EWR/JFK with their traffic and delay issues.

User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3051 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7363 times:

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 4):
Quoting USAA2012 (Reply 3):That route has been doing so well(mostly due to freight) that there has been talk of adding a second daily flight in the morning to TLV.I have heard that as well, but that won't happen until at the earliest 2013 when US gets more widebodies

   Bingo. Definitly look for it 2013, along with IST.

Quoting ca2ohHP (Reply 8):
TLV does deliver a decent return.

It shouldnt surprise anyone, US has a wonderful product on the TLV flight. They have the nicest J seat of any US airline to TLV...



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25106 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7317 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 6):
PHL serves Southeast Pennsylvania and Southern New Jersey market, New Jersey has one of the largest population of people of Jewish decent in the Country. CO has two daily at EWR, as well as El Al. Those routes serve Northern NJ, US's PHL-TLV route serves Southern NJ and Southeast Pennyslvania.

PA has the 5th largest Jewish population of any US state after NY, CA, FL, NJ according to this 2006 data.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/usjewpop.html


User currently offlinePlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7316 times:

Quoting bgm (Reply 12):
Are they mutually exclusive?

A previous poster commented on the Jewish population of New Jersey and SE Pennsylvania areas. I was attempting, perhaps, poorly, to point that non-Jews go to Israel as well.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 6):
PHL serves Southeast Pennsylvania and Southern New Jersey market, New Jersey has one of the largest population of people of Jewish decent in the Country. CO has two daily at EWR, as well as El Al. Those routes serve Northern NJ, US's PHL-TLV route serves Southern NJ and Southeast Pennyslvania.

 


User currently offlineNZ001 From UK - England, joined Nov 2010, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7265 times:

Guys I visit TLV around 6 times a year, it is one of my most frequent airports. The US - ISRAEL market is growing, hence DL added a daily 744 service.

Israel is beautiful, you will be surprised.
Why don't you all visit?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32689 posts, RR: 72
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 7237 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 15):
Bingo. Definitly look for it 2013, along with IST.

Why do you always draw some sort of correlation between Tel Aviv and Istanbul?

Tel Aviv is a large city in the Middle East with strong two-way demand between itself and the United States.

Istanbul is not in the Middle East - it is in eastern Europe and has weak two-way demand, with much of its traffic being Istanbul-originating and going to a much more concentrated area of population centers, making it far more difficult for U.S. carriers, especially an ATI-less US Airways that would not be able to cooperate and coordinate with THY Turkish.



a.
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3051 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6878 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
Istanbul is not in the Middle East - it is in eastern Europe



Istanbul is situated in Europe AND Asia, and has very strong Middle-Eastern influence.

PHL has somewhat of a good sized Turkish-American population in the vicinity as well.

Turkish Airlines and US Airways have recently signed a large Codeshare agreement.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6797 times:

Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 9):
It's a compelling enough offering that the 10th grade class at our school in Denver flew US to TLV this past year

Why was a 10th grade class going to TLV? Sounds like a fun High School trip!

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):
PA has the 5th largest Jewish population of any US state after NY, CA, FL, NJ according to this 2006 data.

Large Jewish population does not particularly mean a flight to TLV will be profitable (Look at LY pulling out of MIA & ORD). I imagine that the US flight to TLV is profitable not due to the local Jewish population in Philadelphia.

Quoting NZ001 (Reply 2):
LY has brilliant security, but the services are poor.

I don't think this is fair. LY has good service, certainly comparable to CO/DL/US on longhaul TLV flights. Their new 777s used on the LAX and some of the EWR flights are quite awesome...The 747s are aging though, as are the 747s Delta uses on JFK-TLV.

Quoting USAA2012 (Reply 3):
That route has been doing so well(mostly due to freight) that there has been talk of adding a second daily flight in the morning to TLV

That would be something given that it is a fairly new route for US...

Quoting NZ001 (Reply 11):
You'll be surprised. TLV is growing quickly !

It's not that TLV is growing per se. But the Israeli economy is booming, and US-Israel relations are better than ever (despite the sometimes tensions between our two leaders recently) in terms of business investment, etc. I expect to see even more US-TLV flights in the next decade. MIA-TLV and IAD-TLV are long overdue.


User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1906 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6754 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 20):
Turkish Airlines and US Airways have recently signed a large Codeshare agreement.

I would see PHL-IST coming for this reason alone, THY operates a very efficient hub at IST.


User currently offlinelucky777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 549 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6704 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 21):
as are the 747s Delta uses on JFK-TLV.

Not for long. Once Delta's 747's get nose-to-tail AVOD in coach, along with a new Coach+ product on top of the new lie-flat beds in Business class next summer i believe, Delta will have a very competitive product.


User currently offlinewill777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6675 times:

Quoting USAA2012 (Reply 3):
That route has been doing so well(mostly due to freight) that there has been talk of adding a second daily flight in the morning to TLV.

This is great news! However, aren't there other international routes that should be able to go double daily before this one?


25 NZ001 : I guess I was exaggerating a bit. I agree, their new 777's are improving LY's service, but the 747's are ageing. The entertainment systems on all the
26 washingtonian : CO has always had PTVs on their 777 fleet in Y; back in 2007 they started installing AVOD throughout. Now all of their 777 fleet has AVOD in both cla
27 MAH4546 : No, it does not. Yes, but until US Airways and Turkish get ATI, they won't be able to fully benefit from this. You continually fail to understand thi
28 USAirALB : Yes it does. I said the vicinty, or the metro area. Delran Township, across the river has a large Turkish American population, and Edgewater Park Tow
29 MAH4546 : Looking at isolated little communities for percent concentration of Turks doesn't prove anything. Do you even realize what you are citing? Edgewater
30 4xear : I have clients coming in from the greater Nj area all the time, and see also that there are large numbers of tourists and pilgrims that come in from t
31 NYC-air : My company in Manhattan does a lot of business with TLV and I can tell you everyone always flies CO. Why? They provide two departure times, PTVs in Y,
32 FutureUScapt : Supposing that US were looking at adding another flight, an eastbound morning flight would be, to say the least, odd. At the risk of speaking for USA
33 Post contains images USAirALB : I should have cleared that up..Im sorry, but yes, I meant seasonal.
34 VintageTravel : Now if US can just get us folks in SLC some good connections with the PHl and CLT hubs... Yes they do! I haven't flown the TLV route, but i have take
35 flybaby : Eastbound they'd probably add a flight sometime around 1pm-4pm to allow for incoming domestic connections which would get them into TLV before mid-mo
36 C010T3 : Poor US! They can't fly anywhere outside Western Europe, North America, Central America and Caribbean, because people start saying that they are odd r
37 VintageTravel : No kidding...it's like back in the 70's, if someone said Pan Am had a domestic route, they'd be hauled off to Bellview!
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