Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
ALAFCO 787 Order (8 a/c) Transfered To Saudia Arabian Airlines.  
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 12777 times:

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/actua...d-huit-commandes-pour-son-787.html


Not clear if it is 8 orders lost or 8 planes lost.Hope for Boeing it's "only" 8 frames.The article (sorry only in French) say "8 commandes annulees" = 8 orders lost.They also said the nameS of the customerS have not been revealed , letting suppose these cancellations come from more than one customer.

The first name coming to my mind is Kenya Aw , which is supposed to take a decision before yearend to order or not A330s.


Any more thoughs ?

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30984 posts, RR: 86
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 12746 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

These are eight frames from ALAFCO which were purchased by SV.

So Boeing's update shows 8 new orders for SV and 8 cancellations for ALAFCO, so the order book remains unchanged.


User currently offlineEstorilM From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12360 times:

Unchanged, but no longer an 8-frame increase.  

User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2654 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 11180 times:

It still has a very full order book as is. 8 frames are nothing in the grand scheme of it all.


arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlinecloud4000 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10589 times:

Losing eight orders is not surprising given Boeing's delays on the 787, with the delivery schedule slipping even further. Like many people on this forum have said before: it's okay to lose orders now, only to get them back later when a better product is released. So losing eight orders now may lead to 16 later. That's an acceptable trade-off, in my opinion.


Boston, USA
User currently offlineRubberJungle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10156 times:

The amount of garbage on the breathless newswires about this "cancelled" order is staggering.

Not least because Saudi Arabian had already said where it planned to source the aircraft, and this was confirmed again by Boeing itself days before the order update:


"The airline completed an arrangement with Boeing and Kuwait-based leasing company ALAFCO to transfer orders for the eight Dreamliners from ALAFCO to Saudi Arabian Airlines."

(Source: Boeing statement)


User currently offlineart From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10094 times:

From the link:

"Boeing a précisé avoir enregistré ces annulations sur une période de sept jours qui s'est achevée mardi."

which more or less means:

Boeing has announced receiving these cancellations over the 7 day period leading up to Tuesday.

I can't really conceive of Boeing receiving cancellations from 8 customers in a week. Stich's explanation sounds right to me.


User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5758 posts, RR: 47
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10011 times:

Ok befoer everyone get's in a huffy. This was a simple transfer of an order from one buyer to another. The net remains the same Ther eare some people here on A.net and in the media who love to crow about the 787 losing orders. Well this was not a cancellation it was a transfer. It was a badly kept secret that everyone knew about: that SV was going to buy 8 of the 787 orders from ALAFCO.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineZKCIF From Lithuania, joined Oct 2010, 297 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9937 times:

Boeing orders table clearly shows -8 and 8 new this week. essentially, SV took over the ALAFCO order (or a part of it). It is the same as if you take eight Euro from one pocket and put the coins into another pocket. Do you become richer? No. Poorer? No.
That's it.


User currently offlineTrevD From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 327 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9745 times:

Yes...essentially an assignment of Alafco's order to Saudia. Likely an accommodation Boeing is making for Saudia so they can step into Alafco's positions rather than requiring Alafco to stay in the deal up until delivery and then sell to SV but contractually requires the termination of one contract concurrent with the signing of the other.

As for impact to the program, you'd have to look at it as a positive having a major customer like Saudia on-board.


User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4000 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9274 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

If the facts behind the story are indeed the ALAFCO/Saudi transfer, then the article isn't well written (it isn't just in English that journalists can't write, apparently).

The plural "commandes" and "annulations" speak to more than one customer and more than one cancellation. Had it been about Boeing receiving one cancellation from one customer, the singular would/should have been used, irrespective of the number of frames involved (much like English).

Where it does get confusing is where the article claims that these cancellations (to use their words) came in the span of 7 days. While it would be unfortunate to say the least for Boeing to get cancellations from 8 customers in a week, I don't think that it takes 7 days to do the paperwork to transfer 8 aircraft from one customer to another either.

So badly written article, or bad week for Boeing?



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4162 posts, RR: 89
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6502 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 10):
So badly written article, or bad week for Boeing?

Poor article, from the Boeing statement linked in reply # 5 by Rubberjungle

"The airline completed an arrangement with Boeing and Kuwait-based leasing company ALAFCO to transfer orders for the eight Dreamliners from ALAFCO to Saudi Arabian Airlines."



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlinetropical From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2008, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5795 times:

Quoting RubberJungle (Reply 5):
The amount of garbage on the breathless newswires about this "cancelled" order is staggering

This and other recent incidents involving both Boeing and Airbus.

The media sometimes appears to thrive on such stories tbh, and seems all too happy to promote alarmist scenarios, presumably for tha sake of selling copy.


User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2130 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5568 times:

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 10):
The plural "commandes" and "annulations" speak to more than one customer and more than one cancellation.

I've always had subject verb agreement difficulty. Specially in American English, the singular verb has the "s" and the plural verb does not. And the noun is the reverse.

In any case, my question is whether the original ALAFCO order would have been leased to Saudi anyway. If that was the case, then this transfer would have been doubly moot.

So a customer decided to buy instead of lease . . . and the leaser happily obliged for a nominal fee.   

bikerthai



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlineluftaom From Australia, joined May 1999, 427 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4414 times:

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 10):
I don't think that it takes 7 days to do the paperwork to transfer 8 aircraft from one customer to another either.

Don't underestimate the time it can take lawyers to agree on things like this. Particularly when there are three different parties not all of whom are in similar time zones.

I wouldn't be surprised if the substantive parts of the contracts/assigment deeds amounted to 70+ pages (excluding schedules and annexures).


User currently offline7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 729 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 3371 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 10):
Where it does get confusing is where the article claims that these cancellations (to use their words) came in the span of 7 days. While it would be unfortunate to say the least for Boeing to get cancellations from 8 customers in a week, I don't think that it takes 7 days to do the paperwork to transfer 8 aircraft from one customer to another either.

You would be surprised how long things take when legal departments get involved.
Eight days is rather fast. Everyone needs to watch out for their own interests and it takes awhile!


User currently offlineHiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 869 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 3245 times:

It was a lot longer than a week. More like a year (I assume lots of wrangling on details)

Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
787 Total Orders And Options posted Wed Apr 25 2007 02:19:12 by Flyboyseven
787/350: Orders And Delivery Dates posted Thu Nov 10 2005 21:11:55 by David31998
3 Cancelled 787 Orders posted Fri Jun 16 2006 07:20:11 by Kaitak744
Saudi Airlines Orders 777/787 posted Sun Nov 7 2010 08:21:07 by Lumberton
11 New Unidentified 787 Orders For Boeing posted Thu Dec 24 2009 11:49:47 by AeroPiggot
Cancelled CRJ 1000 Orders? posted Sun Oct 18 2009 23:23:56 by Flyboy80
Airlines That Might Defer / Cancel 787 Orders posted Wed Jun 24 2009 03:20:15 by Keesje
Delta Boeing 777 And 787 Orders posted Sat Jun 13 2009 10:44:04 by 1337Delta764
LH Hints At 787 Orders? posted Wed Jun 18 2008 00:05:59 by RedChili
Iraq Airways Orders 30/737's & 10/787's! posted Mon Mar 31 2008 17:04:13 by BoeingFever777