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New UA And TLV  
User currently offlineomerlich From Israel, joined Oct 2010, 51 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9871 times:

Hey everyone,I know that it's all new and speculative.//
Yet i'd like to know/...
) if there are going to be more destinations to TLV by UA?
I've heard possibly ORD or SFO?
Does anyone have further info?

57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2897 posts, RR: 31
Reply 1, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9853 times:

Why not IAD-TLV? Capital-to-capital route, all kinds of diplomatic traffic, etc.


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9640 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):
Why not IAD-TLV?

It would definitely makes sense in order to add capacity to the EWR-TLV route.


User currently offlinechootie From Germany, joined May 2007, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9511 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):
Why not IAD-TLV? Capital-to-capital route, all kinds of diplomatic traffic, etc.

I REALLY hope so.....      



chootie
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10601 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9487 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 1):
Why not IAD-TLV? Capital-to-capital route, all kinds of diplomatic traffic, etc.

Depends on what you call the capital of Israel, I guess. The U.S. (the last time I checked) considers TLV the capital but not Jerusalem, which is the actual capital. I think the U.S. is the only country that still has their embassy in TLV.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 605 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9354 times:

TLV to EWR is gold. TLV to IAD and ORD should do fine (not daily, but 4x / 3x weekly respectively). Not sure about SFO (more market from LAX to TLV).

User currently offlineNZ001 From UK - England, joined Nov 2010, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9268 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 4):
I think the U.S. is the only country that still has their embassy in TLV.

No, there are loads of embassies in Tel Aviv. Often past them when I visit TLV.
There's also British, French, Turkish, Swiss and I'm sure I could name many more


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8457 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9201 times:
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Quoting mayor (Reply 4):
Depends on what you call the capital of Israel, I guess. The U.S. (the last time I checked) considers TLV the capital but not Jerusalem, which is the actual capital. I think the U.S. is the only country that still has their embassy in TLV.

When did the Israeli's open an airport in Jerusalem ? There is one in Aquaba and the main one in TLV. What is the point of having " capital to capital" flight when the actual "capital" doesn't have an airport.


User currently offlinePanAm747LHR From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 233 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9035 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
Aquaba

Aqaba, not Aquaba, is in Jordan. Israel does have an airport in Eilat, however...

Jerusalem is only an hour from Tel Aviv, so no point in having another international airport. You can even take the train to Jerusalem from Ben Gurion with a quick change in TLV.


User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1872 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8752 times:
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It's doubtful that SFO has the traffic to support TLV non-stop at this point and with the aircraft they current posess. Its possible LAX could support the route with 788's in the future

User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2740 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8356 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
When did the Israeli's open an airport in Jerusalem ?

There is an airport in Jerusalem. AFAIK no airline flies there.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
What is the point of having " capital to capital" flight when the actual "capital" doesn't have an airport.

It's close enough. The distance between TLV and Jerusalem is about the same as the distance between IAD and Washington, DC.


User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2082 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8137 times:

Due to such strong O&D traffic between NYC and TLV, I think the best idea would be to add a 3rd flight into the market.

I have noticed CO never added an IAH-TLV flight.

I am only guessing, I am not privy to the numbers.


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2972 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8094 times:
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Where does CO serve TLV from? EWR, right? Wouldn't that just become a UA flight? What am I not getting?


The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10601 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8057 times:

Quoting NZ001 (Reply 6):
No, there are loads of embassies in Tel Aviv. Often past them when I visit TLV.
There's also British, French, Turkish, Swiss and I'm sure I could name many more

My mistake. Actually, most of the embassies are in TLV. Sort of strange when the actual capital is considered to be in Jerusalem. I think the U.S. takes the prize for the ugliest embassy, tho. It looks like it's part of a concrete factory.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7933 times:

From the moment the merger was announced, I've expected IAD-TLV to be added. I doubt they will market it as "Capital to Capital" due to the political sensitivities and the fact that the airport is generally referred to as "Tel Aviv Ben Gurion" even though, as somebody pointed out, it is closer to Jerusalem than IAD is to downtown DC.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 11):
Due to such strong O&D traffic between NYC and TLV, I think the best idea would be to add a 3rd flight into the market.

I think adding IAD-TLV would allow them to funnel some of the connecting traffic through something other than EWR, which would leave more higher-yielding O&D capacity for EWR-TLV. Also it would tap into WAS-TLV traffic, which is pretty decent and often winds up on United's partner Lufthansa. Obviously most of the major EWR markets are also covered from IAD, so most of the passengers who connect through EWR can be funneled through IAD. It seems like a no-brainer to me.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 11):
I have noticed CO never added an IAH-TLV flight.

A few years ago the CEO of Continental said they would like to add IAH-TLV.

Also another question is whether EWR-TLV can justify a three-class product. I am guessing yes, but we shall see!


User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2704 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7930 times:

You'd think that where El Al flew, there would be O&D. They fly to EWR, JFK and LAX. Their website shows ORD, BOS and MIA, but their website has no arrivals or departures from/to TLV in a threee day window. UIf operated, maybe they're seasonal.
With that being said, I believe that a 763ER IAD-EWR could potentially work and grab government based passengers and connections from much of the UA system. EWR should stay with 2 flights, Now 772ERs. Adding IAD would open some seats on EWR for growth. some have said a 774 would work from EWR.
ORD is potential as UA has huge feed there, but most traffic is probably from large cities like LAX, ORD and NYC.

Maybe something like one aircraft serving ORD 3 days and IAD 4 days would work, understanding there would be aircraft time needed at ORD and IAD to make the turns work with one unit.

Timings might be an issue with ORD to connect to/from the west coast with something like this.
ORD 1330 TLV 0850 (estm. 11:30 eastbound, one hour longer than EWR)
TLV 1050 ORD 1615 (estm. 13:25 westbound, one hour more than EWR)

In ORD, there's a 763ER arriving from LHR at 1028 that could make up the 1330 to TLV, but something else would have to give to cover departures until the 1615 arrival is ready to depart.


User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2082 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7771 times:

Timings might be an issue with ORD to connect to/from the west coast with something like this.
ORD 1330 TLV 0850 (estm. 11:30 eastbound, one hour longer than EWR)
TLV 1050 ORD 1615 (estm. 13:25 westbound, one hour more than EWR)

I highly doubt it would be scheduled like this for the very reason you state.

It would leave in the evening, and arrive early the next evening into TLV. It would turn around and fly back to the USA around midnight. Like CO flights 90 and 91.

An IAD flight would work. I just think having a third choice for the local NYC market would be very attractive, in addition to connections


User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2082 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7764 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 14):
Quoting klwright69 (Reply 11):
I have noticed CO never added an IAH-TLV flight.

A few years ago the CEO of Continental said they would like to add IAH-TLV.

Also another question is whether EWR-TLV can justify a three-class product. I am guessing yes, but we shall see!

Yes, but IAH never come to being unfortunately.

I think TLV could support a three class product.


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6844 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7632 times:

I think IAD-TLV would do great. I hope UA eventually starts it up.


"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2082 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7611 times:

I would love to go. Given that I live in an arab country, I can't let them stamp my passport. Will they do this?

User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4058 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (4 years 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7331 times:
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Quoting GlobalCabotage (Reply 5):
TLV to EWR is gold. TLV to IAD and ORD should do fine (not daily, but 4x / 3x weekly respectively). Not sure about SFO (more market from LAX to TLV).
Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 9):
It's doubtful that SFO has the traffic to support TLV non-stop at this point and with the aircraft they current posess. Its possible LAX could support the route with 788's in the future

USER P

I can see IAD-TLV being added in the near future. This will bring UA a large government contract. I can see this route being daily as well. I don't think there's a need for P J Y. I think this can be flown with a 2 class, J Y 77E or 763 ER (hoping they'll add blended winglets to their 763 ER fleet.) . CO & DL have done very, very well with two class a/c on their TLV flights.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 15):
With that being said, I believe that a 763ER IAD-EWR could potentially work and grab government based passengers and connections from much of the UA system. EWR should stay with 2 flights, Now 772ERs. Adding IAD would open some seats on EWR for growth. some have said a 774 would work from EWR.
ORD is potential as UA has huge feed there, but most traffic is probably from large cities like LAX, ORD and NYC.

Maybe som

LY currently serves LAX 4X a week on a 77E from LAX with a early afternoon departure. The Los Angeles metro area does have a very large Jewish population and I believe the flights do very well and the fares are quite high. Prior to the nonstop they had a direct flight, 3X on a 762 ER that was routed, LAX-YYZ-TLV.
I don't think UA could add daily LAX-TLV service. If anything, they could operate the flight on opposite days LY does not have their flight operating. Can UA's 77Es make it? Eastbound, the flight is 15ish hours. Perhaps, UA can add 3X weekly service in this market once they have received a adequate number of 788s to fly it.

ORD has seen service flown by LY in the past. I believe it was operated until right after 9/11. The ORD flight was operated similar to the LAX departure in that it made an immediate stop in YYZ on a 762ER. I feel this route could do well with UA being the dominate carrier @ ORD with lots of inbound connections.

Thoughts?


User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1019 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7012 times:

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 19):
I would love to go. Given that I live in an arab country, I can't let them stamp my passport. Will they do this?

Yes, they are willing to stamp on a separate piece of paper, but you do need to specifically request it - standard procedure is to stamp the passport. Also, if your passport shows residence and/or extensive travel in the Arab world, be prepared for intensive questioning on both arrival and departure (expect at least an hour, with multiple agents).

Depending on what your nationality is, it may be simpler to get a second passport for travel to Israel. For citizens of most countries, this is fairly straightforward.



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlineSanti319 From Mexico, joined Dec 2005, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6679 times:

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 21):
Yes, they are willing to stamp on a separate piece of paper, but you do need to specifically request it - standard procedure is to stamp the passport.

Oh no! I wish I knew this before!! Now I have to get a second passport to travel to Beirut next year, oh well....


User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2082 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6480 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 15):
You'd think that where El Al flew, there would be O&D. They fly to EWR, JFK and LAX.


The reason I suggested a 3rd flight at EWR over another gateway is that LY has had a spotty history of service to other USA destinations (aside LAX). This raised a redflag for me. But an IAH and or an IAD flight on possibly a 767, or on a nondaily basis, can likely work also.


User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6308 times:

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 16):
I just think having a third choice for the local NYC market would be very attractive, in addition to connections

I don't know if this is necessary. They already offer two excellent departure times every day. I just don't think a third daily flight is necessary for competitive reasons. Besides, LY only offers 6X weekly from EWR.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 19):
I would love to go. Given that I live in an arab country, I can't let them stamp my passport. Will they do this?

I think you would have no problem getting in (although you could expect some security questioning), but you might have a hard if not impossible time getting back into your home country after your trip  

I have no doubt that EK will operate DXB-TLV someday! Their global route system will not be complete until they do...

Quoting laca773 (Reply 20):
ORD has seen service flown by LY in the past. I believe it was operated until right after 9/11. The ORD flight was operated similar to the LAX departure in that it made an immediate stop in YYZ on a 762ER. I feel this route could do well with UA being the dominate carrier @ ORD with lots of inbound connections.

They operated it for several more years after 9/11, but with stops in EWR.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 23):
The reason I suggested a 3rd flight at EWR over another gateway is that LY has had a spotty history of service to other USA destinations (aside LAX). This raised a redflag for me. But an IAH and or an IAD flight on possibly a 767, or on a nondaily basis, can likely work also.

Yeah but LY generally did not have feed on either side. If they had their agreement with AA when they operated ORD, it probably would have been more successful. But an American airline operating East Coast Hub-TLV can tap into local traffic, plus connecting traffic from just about every important business market in the United States.


25 omerlich : is it possible to see a JFK flight being added? DL have only recently upgraded from a 763ER into a 744
26 washingtonian : There were actually some rumors on A.net about five years ago that CO was thinking about adding TLV-JFK, but I think this was a pipedream then and no
27 DUALRATED : Why not IAD-TLV? Capital-to-capital route, all kinds of diplomatic traffic, etc. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel period. Sovereign nations decide w
28 Post contains images omerlich : AA can't come here .there is court order against the owing millions to the ex-TWA employees.
29 mayor : I wouldn't say "centrally located".......it's much closer to Tel Aviv than it is to Jerusalem.
30 Post contains images NYCFlyer : For God's sake, why can't you people leave politics out of this? Obviously, as the only major int'l airport in a tiny country, TLV is the effective "
31 mayor : Don't get your knickers in a twist. My intent was not political at all. Someone else brought up the "capital to capital" idea and I was just referrin
32 SonomaFlyer : CO had the longest scheduled flight in the world at one point with EWR to HKG which IIRC is around 15:30. It's not the eastbound leg which would be t
33 CALPSAFltSkeds : Actually, the BOM-EWR route (at 6784 nm) and DLE-EWR routs (at 6364 nm.) are pretty close to the profile of the TLV-LAX route (at 6581 nm.) they all
34 MAH4546 : AA absolutely can fly to Tel Aviv by simply settling on the court order. Very simple thing to do if AA decides Tel Aviv is an important market for it
35 Post contains images rwSEA : Fair enough. I suppose that Dulles, Virginia is technically not the capital of the United States, so technically all of UA's "capital to capital" mar
36 NYCFlyer : Nothing difficult to understand, thanks. But when there is much emotional dispute in a country over where the diplomatic capital is, and someone like
37 mayor : Seems like YOU are the only one providing any "emotional dispute" in this matter. As far as me proving how smart I am, all I was doing was stating a
38 klwright69 : Then I think the question is, why did UA not start IAD-TLV on its own before? It makes a lot of sense really. Also regarding traveling to TLV, I resid
39 flyingalex : The drawback of a US-TLV route is that it is very long and ties up equipment for one-and-a-half days. I think UA previously thought they had better p
40 washingtonian : Flyingalex put it better than I would have: I think that an airline can't launch every route they want to. I'm sure TLV was on their radar. Perhaps t
41 IAD380 : Now that UA has merged with CO, it may want to add flights to TLV from its other hubs in the United States. Although UA could fly to TLV from IAD, ORD
42 Mats : Continental has talked before of adding third flight from Newark to Tel Aviv. Although they do not disclose information to the public, it is supposedl
43 jmc1975 : Also keep in mind, "Jews for Jesus" is based in DC, so that along with other variables, including diplomatic traffic makes IAD-TLV a prime O&D.
44 DUALRATED : If they do, it will probably be far into the future. Assuming that a comprehensive peace is reached in the Middle East, the anger and resentments on b
45 washingtonian : Haha, I doubt that "Jews for Jesus" is a mover in determining a new flight. That being said, there is plenty of O&D from WAS-TLV.
46 IAD380 : No, EK just can't start flights to TLV. First, Israel and the UAE would need to negotiate a bilateral aviation treaty, which will not happen until th
47 phllax : Besides the LY non-stop flights from LAX, CO 90/91 originate/terminate in LAX and the US flight via PHL originates and terminates in LAX. Don't forge
48 MAH4546 : LAX is Tel Aviv's second largest U.S. market, not surprisingly, after New York City and just ahead of number three Miami. Washington and Chicago roun
49 IAD380 : Where do PHL (US), ATL (DL), IAH, and BOS fall on this list?
50 MAH4546 : FLL, MCO, PHL, ATL and BOS round out the top ten, IIRC. Atlanta and Philadelphia are no doubt skewed by having non-stops, however. Before US Airways c
51 IAD380 : This would support UA starting flights IAD. I doubt that LY would start IAD or return to BWI. As a result, the two airlines have hubs at ORD, UA and
52 Post contains images NZ001 : Would love to see a 787 in LY colours, but I think we are gonna have to wait ages to ever see that! Ye I agree about not the 767's. Flew once from BK
53 AADC10 : I am not so sure UA/CO will add any flights to TLV. The mantra at the new UA has been capacity discipline and unless yields to TLV are really fat they
54 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : The flight attendants might not like it but it might make sense to add IAD-TLV now. IAD would provide alot of o&d im sure and take some connection
55 laca773 : I don't see AA starting service in any form to TLV, even via BA and their alliance with each other. AA owes too much money to ex-TWA employees. Let's
56 MAH4546 : AA owes an absolutely measly amount in the grand scheme of things. If AA wants to re-start Tel Aviv, it will pay what is owed. The AA/TLV talk is gre
57 Post contains images washingtonian : No sympathy. If they are senior enough to hold the TLV runs, they can choose other cities. Last time I checked CO F/As had ~30 hour layovers at one o
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