Teej13 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 486 posts, RR: 0 Posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1559 times:
Just out of interest, did Air Canada ever consider the B777? They've made a pretty strong Airbus statement (Can you say, kickbacks to Mulroney?), and had they not absorbed Canadian, the 747s would be even more rare. And since I beleive they're the launch customer of the A340-500, is Boeing on the way out for AC? Can I sense a A318 order to replace the DC-9s? (I know, that's a whole new thread..)
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 1, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1459 times:
I am sure that AC considered the 777 for its long haul needs, just like most airlines check every possible product available to compare costs, prices, capabilites, etc. (wouldn't you if you were spending 100s of millions of dollars for something?), but decided to go with the Airbus products for its owns reasons, one of which must have been the common cockpit.
Yes, Air Canada now has a large fleet of Airbus aircraft (I do think your statement about kickbacks is unfair - if they had an all Boeing fleet, would you say the same thing?) probably because they are very good aircraft, are well-suited to AC's needs and I am sure they got a good price per unit being that they have such a large fleet. Also, delvery schedules have much to do with which type of aircraft an airline orders.
Boeing is not out of the picture at AC by any means, AC operates the 744 and has a very large fleet of 767 airliners (they just leased a bunch of brand-new ones and these new 767s are being delivered about now I think). Boeing would also like to sell the 717 to AC as a 732/DC9/F28/146 replacement. That issue has been discussed many times here, it is complicated due to union rules between mainline and regional operations, and of course, its the A318 vs 717 discussion, but to make a long story short, Air Canada ordering the 717 for its short-haul needs is a real possibility. The final decision rests with the management of AC, regardless of what we think, but Boeing has a good chance of getting this order as the 717 may be suited than the A318, common cockpit aside, for the mission that AC will need it for.
Slawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 10 Reply 2, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1441 times:
I am sure they looked at the 777 but, not for too long, by the time they got their A340's they were pretty heavy into the bus, and Dutchjet, I don;t know how much you are into the Canadian aviation industry, but our former prime minister, and a few others who made up his government, or funded his party in some way were investigated of alleged kickbacks from Airbus over the large A320 deal. At the time the MD line would have been a better pick because it would also great new jobs in Canada (Douglas wings are built in Toronto) Even boeing was considered the sooner pick just because of all of out ties to the US, and the fact that the prime minister was big on US-Canada relations. Sp the Kickback issue is always around when you talk about AC and Airbus, but not for the A340/330's they were just an after affect of the large A320/19 order. Financially it is better that the airline is going all airbus, just because of the much lower costs associated with a simmilar type. But don't count boeing out yet, the 717 wing is also built in toronto and that may have some pull, and frankly if I were boeing I would have already pulled out of Canada, because only one Canadian company is buying new boeings in large numbers, all the others are airbus.
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
Teej13 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 486 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1422 times:
It really will be interested to see which way the cookie crumbles, especially when an order does arrive for the DC9/F28/146 replacement. As an ever further stretch, do they downsize somewhat and go with a fleet of CRJ900s?
Dutchjet - to your credit, I did forget the 767s. That being said, doesn't AC have more A330s coming in?
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 4, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1423 times:
Teej13, I think that AC has about a couple of more A330s to come, not many, 2 or 3 more I believe. There are the new and newer 763s coming in, but some of the 763s are going to be leased to fellow STAR alliance member Ansett Australia. AC will also begin slowly phasing out the 762s in the near future, so the AC wide-body fleet is a bit fluid at this moment.
Concerning the CRJ900, or an aircraft like that, I learned in a discussion at this site a few weeks ago that the issue of replacing the 732s (ex-Canadi
AirBoyYVR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1393 times:
I am sure AC looked at 777, just like UA looked at A340, etc. I know Canadian wanted 777's to replace DC-10's but anyway ..!
Air Canada saves a great deal in operational costs by having crews type rated for both A330/340, as well as training and spare parts. But what *exactly* makes an airline go for one manufacturer over the other is anyones guess. Price, long term cost savings, and delivery schedule would be some of the main factors.
I was recently told that Airbus is trying hard to sell A318's to Air Canada (naturally). 717 would sound like a logical replacement for DC-9's but so would A318's given the fact that AC will soon be operating 321's along with 319's and 20's. From what I was told A318, as it is right now, sounded to heavy for Air Canada so Airbus is working on modifications to satisfy AC's requirements. I know through a friend of mine at Boeing that 717 is also a definite possibility. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Caribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1627 posts, RR: 9 Reply 6, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1378 times:
>Yes, Air Canada now has a large fleet of Airbus aircraft (I do think your statement about kickbacks is unfair - if they had an all Boeing fleet, would you say the same thing?) probably because they are very good aircraft, are well-suited to AC's needs and I am sure they got a good price per unit being that they have such a large fleet. Also, delvery schedules have much to do with which type of aircraft an airline orders. <
I don't know if you ever heard the news in the Netherlands but Air Canada and the former Conservative government of the day when Air Canada placed it's order for A320s have been accused of kick backs in order to favor the Airbus manufacturer over Boeing. The issue has never really cleared itself cleanly from the public's mind despite inquiries so Teej13's statement you quoted above isn't completely out of whack... there are people today who think AC's choice of Airbus over Boeing has been completely manipulated by the former Canadian government... hard to say if that's a totally fair statement as Airbus aircraft can hold a candle to Boeing or anyone else but it looks like they were persuaded in their favor somewhat.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 8, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1374 times:
I agree that there is a possibility that "external" forces may have influenced Air Canada's original Airbus decision, its likely that none of us will ever know for sure. I am just a bit sensitive to remarks like that: on this site, things like that are said frequently without any support and I find it incorrect. I stand corrected.
Its fun being an Airbus defender for a change, I am usually accused of being pro-Boeing!