enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6552 posts, RR: 13 Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8647 times:
Wow, they just keep growing that thing. I wonder what they cut elsewhere to fund it? F9 bombed with JAX apparently WN will probably do better I guess. CMH will be fine (and hurt DAY) and PIT keeps F9 out.
I think a big part of the reason F9 didn't succeed with JAX was the timing of the flights. It was a redeye going out and the return was equally as bad. IMO WN should do better since it won't be a redeye.....
flyCMH From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 2267 posts, RR: 11 Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8577 times:
It looks like WN will beat F9 in starting nonstop service from CMH to DEN. I wonder what took them so long. Maybe the possibility of F9 starting CMH-DEN (and PIT and JAX too) was the incentive needed to get WN to start the route(s) now. It will be interesting to see what, if any, response UA will have. Currently CMH-DEN is 3x daily, 1x E70, 1x 319, 1x CR7, but goes to 2x daily Airbus in December. I would imagine UA will dump fares, return the route to 3x daily, and operate all E-jets on the route, but that's just my assumption. Either way, glad to see WN on this route.
DeltaRules From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3662 posts, RR: 9 Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8061 times:
Quoting flyCMH (Reply 3): I wonder what took them so long. Maybe the possibility of F9 starting CMH-DEN (and PIT and JAX too) was the incentive needed to get WN to start the route(s) now.
I had wondered if another airline would try CMH-DEN, but the natural guess was if F9 would start it...guess not now. I was hoping to see some of the Airbus metal at CMH.
Quoting flyCMH (Reply 3): Currently CMH-DEN is 3x daily, 1x E70, 1x 319, 1x CR7, but goes to 2x daily Airbus in December. I would imagine UA will dump fares, return the route to 3x daily, and operate all E-jets on the route, but that's just my assumption.
I wonder if UA would throw more mainline metal on the route. FL coming to town prompted DL to go from their mainline/E-jet/RJ mix that they went to for a while to ATL back to an all-mainline mix of 757s, 738s & MD-88s, an offering that has stuck since (with a few changes).
flyCMH From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 2267 posts, RR: 11 Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7989 times:
Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 11): I wonder if UA would throw more mainline metal on the route. FL coming to town prompted DL to go from their mainline/E-jet/RJ mix that they went to for a while to ATL back to an all-mainline mix of 757s, 738s & MD-88s, an offering that has stuck since (with a few changes).
I'm not sure. Unless threatened on a major route, United doesn't seem to protect their turf in midrange markets like they used to. Over in Indianapolis, United ceded the market pretty quickly to the likes of Frontier and Southwest, downgrading everything to Express and currently serving IND-DEN at a meager 2x a day with E70s. I hope United will maintain mainline on the route, but with equipment running thin and United still having the upper hand on frequency, I'd imagine they'd just slap E-jets on the route and call it a day.
enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6552 posts, RR: 13 Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7918 times:
Quoting atrude777 (Reply 4): Keep in mind, WN is adding 6 new used 737-700's so that could be helping the schedule additions as well.
54 additions of flights, and the only cut DEN is seeing is one daily DEN-SAT.
I don't see how they added 54 flights. I get the six planes, but those were already partially used for EWR and they haevn't even finished announcing EWR yet. I think they probably used 5 of the 6 for EWR by the time it's all said and done. I wonder if :
a) they are getting even more planes? (maybe)
b) they are extending the A/C day (most likely)
c) they are cutting something that is unannounced (unlikely)
USPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 8 Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7904 times:
Quoting enilria (Reply 1): CMH will be fine (and hurt DAY) and PIT keeps F9 out.
F9 is staying out of PITDEN because of Republic, not because of WN. UA flies two dailies to DEN with RW equipment, to compliment the 757 or 320 that goes daily. UA has 3x daily DEN flights from PIT. That is why F9 hasn't and can't start PITDEN.
FL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1516 posts, RR: 12 Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7879 times:
Quoting enilria (Reply 13): b) they are extending the A/C day (most likely)
I was looking at MDW's schedule for June and I saw a 545am flight to LAS and a 955pm flight to CMH. Those are at more extreme times of the day than I've ever seen out of WN so I think they are definitely increasing utilization.
FL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1516 posts, RR: 12 Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7734 times:
Quoting william (Reply 16): Thats incredible,is that departures or arrivals and departures? What is the departure flight count for DEN now with the additions?
That's departures only. MDW is really pulling away from LAS and becoming a mega-hub. For perspective, only DL at ATL, AA at DFW, UA at IAH, and US out of CLT have more mainline flights. I wonder if WN will start advertising about having the most mainline flights out of Chicago. DEN will be at 150 flights per day next summer.
SlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2875 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7512 times:
Is anyone even surprised by this? WN is focused on DIA and they are out showing it. Their commitment to DEN signs seem pretty accurate and horrible news for UA.
When WN is trying cities like DEN to BOS, DTW, BDL, CMH, JAX and PIT UA has to wake up and shift its strategy. WN is out for the kill and UA refuses to respond or shift strategies other than reduce seat capacity. WN is starting to enter longer distance, less leisure, higher fare routes aka business travelers. It was less of a problem when WN was getting the high volume low yielding California, Vegas, SLC, PHX flyers now they are seriously starting to step on UAs toes in DEN. UAs few remaining premium markets are starting to evaporate quickly and i think EWR-DEN is next to evaporate again by WN. UA better do something although i don't know what the best strategy is when your hub and routes are literally being stolen by TWO LCC airlines who have such lower costs, spend alot on advertising, increasing loyalty, and determination to add destinations like mad men.
FL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1516 posts, RR: 12 Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7387 times:
Quoting N200WN (Reply 22): Interesting...thanks for pointing that out. And that includes UA at ORD?
Of course. UA at ORD has 200-220 mainline flights. Also IMO equally impressive is that BWI will be up to 192 flights a day next June and that doesn't even include FL at all. WN is building a triangle with MDW, BWI, and ATL in the eastern US.
ScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6439 posts, RR: 33 Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7271 times:
Quoting enilria (Reply 13): I don't see how they added 54 flights. I get the six planes, but those were already partially used for EWR and they haevn't even finished announcing EWR yet. I think they probably used 5 of the 6 for EWR by the time it's all said and done. I wonder if :
a) they are getting even more planes? (maybe)
They do have 14 new deliveries coming from Boeing as well. If yields & traffic are holding up, they may also have chosen to delay retiring some of their older 737's.
Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 20): Is anyone even surprised by this? WN is focused on DIA and they are out showing it. Their commitment to DEN signs seem pretty accurate and horrible news for UA.
When WN is trying cities like DEN to BOS, DTW, BDL, CMH, JAX and PIT UA has to wake up and shift its strategy.
As I have said several times before, DEN is probably the least critical hub to pre-merger United, and similarly just ahead of CLE in the merged carrier. Domestic travel is becoming progressively more commoditized, and yields are better on international flying which sees less LCC competition. DEN was pre-merger United's most domestic-centered hub, with <5% international traffic. Therefore, when the company's strategy is to shift capacity away from domestic markets, the predominantly domestic hub will be de-emphasized.
While there are certain markets in the Mountain West and Great Plains for which DEN is ideally-suited, the vast majority of traffic flows over DEN can be handled at SFO, ORD, and IAH. The Dakotas, Montana, Idaho, Nebraska, and Wyoming put together roughly equal Tennessee for population. A United hub at DEN similar in size to Delta's at SLC could cater to the higher-yielding small-market traffic without getting into the fare wars between F9 and WN.
Quoting FL787 (Reply 17): DEN will be at 150 flights per day next summer.
That would actually be slightly larger (by departures) than UA's current mainline operation at DEN (excluding CO).
25 N471wn: They have no will to fight and are simply retreating-----hopefully when the Continental people take over they will put up a respectable fight......I
26 WNCrew: So I know about the Virgin Blue aircraft N552-553-554, but are we accepting 14 new -700's next yr? Also, are there other second-hand aircraft we're g
27 FutureUScapt: I don't follow... Shuttle America dba UA and F9 compete head to head on several routes currently.
28 USPIT10L: F9 cannot start a route if Republic is already flying it for a competitor. Those markets that have UA and F9 head-to-head were started before RW boug
29 ScottB: According to Southwest's most recent 10-Q filed with the SEC, they have firm orders for 14 737-700's for delivery in 2011, as well as one in the four
30 ADent: WN may pass UA at DEN for most mainline flights also. WN is going to 150 this summer and this post ( Does UA Need DEN As A Hub? (by nycdave Nov 8 2010
31 FutureUScapt: Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. Still, I have to think it can't be quite quite that simple because if I'm in scheduling at UA all I'm going to d
32 FL787: There's no way that is true. What about DEN-DSM? Yeah it makes no sense.
33 SANFan: Sorry, you're a little out of date here. WN in fact HAS started admitting that they have "hubs" -- I think they call them some sort of double-talk te
34 mariner: It's what happened when Mesa was flying for Frontier and was offered a United contract - they could not fly the same routes for both, so Mesa dropped
35 FL787: I can believe that though because UA knew about the Mesa F9 flying when they proposed the deal. In the current situation, UA had no idea RW would be
36 FL787: In addition to passing UA in mainline departures from CHI and DEN, it looks like WN may pass US in mainline departures from PHX. WN will have 193 fli
37 mariner: It's a long time ago, but I believe - from memory - that the Frontier/Mesa had certain no-compete clauses or references, as well, and, again from mem
38 Cubsrule: They have, although certainly not all carriers have them. For instance, OO flies LAX-SLC for both Delta and United.
39 FL787: I'd think it would have to be because of the example I gave with DL starting ORD-LGA with S5. I realize they exist. I don't think OO could fly for DL
40 pitops: Where did aircraft 551 come from? Saw her come into CMH the other day thinking it was a 500 booked to 140! Saw it was a 137 seater.
41 mariner: Which doesn't mean there aren't some exclusionary clauses in both contracts. I'm sure there are individual routes all over, but, as I said, I believe
42 Cubsrule: My recollection - without having the contracts in front of me - is that for a while the OO/DL contract precluded OO from doing any DL-coded flying ex
43 FL787: For anyone interested here are the top 5 WN cities for next summer: MDW-243 LAS-227 PHX-193 BWI-192 DEN-150 The fact that I think these are record hig
44 atrude777: N550 and N551 came from Air Sahara. N270, and N271 came from Ford. At the moment, WN has 4 used -700's, adding the 3 coming from Virgin Blue, that br
45 SlcDeltaRUmd11: From another thread This guy forgot to mention that CO increases CLE-DEN to twice daily in January just in time for ski season so thats a good news fo
46 WNCrew: All other used "transitional" aircraft have been converted to standard interior configuration. The only way you can tell from within the cabin are a
47 atrude777: When I worked at WN in STL I was desperate to fly on a, at the time it was a 73D with 128 seats. I looked on OTIS and saw N551 was flying inbound MDW
48 WNCrew: Which is so funny seeing as how most every other airline in the world is configured with a transverse Galley-4 (save for some of UA's A3xx's and some
49 wwtraveler99: The 3 used planes for WN should be all configured to the standard WN layout prior to entering service. This infomation comes from someone inside main
50 william: Impressive, does anyone know how many flights FL has at ATL? I can't get over the fact they have over 243 flights out of Midway. Smartest then SWA di
51 WNCrew: They may have 137 seats, but I know that the galleys etc will be different so we will be receiving new manual information regarding product storage,
52 wwtraveler99: How do you know that they will be confirgured differently? They will be in maintence until sometime in Jan. If they were being placed into service as
53 WNCrew: Because I am a flight attendant and we receive bulletins about these sorts of things. Did you think I was making it up? Which department are you in?
54 wwtraveler99: I never even said I work for WN. I have talked to MX folks. I am not, nor was I trying to say you were making things up. But I now have 2 conflicting