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United 747 Flight Attendants?  
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 668 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 10633 times:

I was wondering, since there seems to be a much smaller route network in UA of 747s compared to 777s, are all UA international flight attendants endorsed on the 747 fleet?

Also, do more senior crew tend to operate the 747 flights? I've heard numerous times
that on the flights to SYD most of the crew are middle aged or older. Is this a fair statement, or do plenty of FAs with less seniority crew the 747s?

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinehiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2177 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 10611 times:

UA inflight can work any aircraft I believe...pilots are a whole different story of course. Believe the normal pattern is fly on day one...1-2 day layover...then return. 3-4 of those a month gives you a full sked whereas some domestic skeds have you out 3 days straight but then out again in 2-3 days.

User currently offlinethegoldenargosy From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10455 times:

In the states cabin crew are usually endorsed on every type the airline flies unlike in other countries.

The 747's are more senior because they fly the more popular routes. A Sydney trip is worth a lot of credit time. The faster you build up credit time, the more time you have off or to pick up trips. Junior crews do work the 747, but I think usually they're all reserve FA's.


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5943 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10381 times:

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 2):
The 747's are more senior because they fly the more popular routes. A Sydney trip is worth a lot of credit time. The faster you build up credit time, the more time you have off or to pick up trips. Junior crews do work the 747, but I think usually they're all reserve FA's.

I took a UA 744 from ORD to FRA in May; of the two F/A's seated directly in front of me, one had been with UA for ages, and the other had only been with UA for nine years... and she was flying on reserve. She was Korean-American, and didn't speak German, but she did say that she enjoyed the long routes like FRA, but that nine years is a long time to be on reserve.


User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10352 times:

I think it's a mix, and depends on the base. My LAX-SYD trip and Return were all very young. (to my surprise). My ORD-NRT trip were all old and a bit harsh. I think it just depends. But from what I understand, they can fly on any type the airlines has.

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9803 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9951 times:

Age does not always mean seniority at United. There was a reasonably amount of FA hiring 4 years ago at UA and the median age of the new flight attendants is not the stereotypical 22 years old. UA brought on a lot of people who had previous FA or airline experience from other airlines, which means there are plenty of flight attendants that have been flying for 20 years but only a few with UA.

As far as workability, the long haul configured 777s (used of flights near and over 12 hours) and the 747s have crew rests. The 767s and some 777s used on shorter routes do not have FA crew rests and those are often less popular. The 747 crew rest is light years more comfortable than the dungeon below deck 777 crew rest, but at least it is a bed.

As always with UA, the most junior long haul crews will be flying out of IAD which sees little 747 service.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9931 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 5):
As always with UA, the most junior long haul crews will be flying out of IAD which sees little 747 service.

Why is that?


User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1739 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8525 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 5):
The 767s and some 777s used on shorter routes do not have FA crew rests and those are often less popular.

Domestic 777s do not have crew rest. International configured 777-200s do have crew rests. The first three rows of the starboard EconomyPlus section is a curtained off crew rest (Rows 17-20, G/H seats). Even short TATL flights, such as IAD-AMS have rest breaks, where the crew rest is utilized.

767 is a popular aircraft to work on, and flies many lucrative trips: FCO (seasonal), ACC, and EZE to name a few.

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 6):
Why is that?

DCASW does have a large "senior" base, however it doesn't have the seniority that SFO, ORD or LAX has. You do not need to have 35+ years seniority to hold an international line out of DCASW (IAD).


User currently offlinePoadrim From Norway, joined Oct 2008, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8126 times:
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Got me thinking, how is it with flight attendants and aircraft type? Is there like the pilots, they get type rated on a specific type?

//Poadrim



Good judgment comes from experience. Good experience comes from someone else's bad judgment.
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 668 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7884 times:

Quoting Poadrim (Reply 8):
Got me thinking, how is it with flight attendants and aircraft type? Is there like the pilots, they get type rated on a specific type?

//Poadrim

I do know from this that it varies between airlines. For example in Australia Qantas has Long Haul Crew who are trained on 747, A330, 767 and a dedicated A380 Cabin Crew division. Domestic is 737, 767 and A330

It seems at United any Flight Attendant can operate any aircraft in the fleet, which although believeable seems strange compared to what is had within Australia. This would mean a UA Flight Attendant could work on a 747, 777, 767, 757, 737, A320 (I assume that encompasses the whole "mainline" fleet)


User currently offlineeta unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2089 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7466 times:

I flew SYD-SFO and LAX-SYD on UA last year.

On SYD-SFO, just about all the overweight grandmothers wore US & Australian flag pins on their uniform- I believe they do about 4 Australian return flights a month (+ some SYD-MEL-SYD shuttles) and that's it- a pretty easy life. They were friendly enough.

However, on LAX-SYD it was a much younger crowd, mostly Hawaiian and Hispanic crew (saw some Central American flag pins) and let me tell you- they were all nasty and didn't want to be there. I think I saw one crack a smile the entire flight- it must have hurt because there was only one smile.


User currently offlinethegoldenargosy From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 19 hours ago) and read 6669 times:

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 9):
It seems at United any Flight Attendant can operate any aircraft in the fleet, which although believeable seems strange compared to what is had within Australia. This would mean a UA Flight Attendant could work on a 747, 777, 767, 757, 737, A320 (I assume that encompasses the whole "mainline" fleet)

It's that way at all the airlines in the States. It's very rare to have only a few people trained on an aircraft type. I think its done for scheduling purposes, everyone can work every type. My FA instructor at Chautauqua was former NWA, she said they were trained on everything from the DC-9 to the 747.


User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1485 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 19 hours ago) and read 6655 times:

Quoting Jackbr (Thread starter):
Quoting Jackbr (Reply 9):
It seems at United any Flight Attendant can operate any aircraft in the fleet, which although believeable seems strange compared to what is had within Australia. This would mean a UA Flight Attendant could work on a 747, 777, 767, 757, 737, A320 (I assume that encompasses the whole "mainline" fleet)

Think of all of the DL FA's too, they are qualified on ALL the NW aircraft as well as ALL DL aircraft.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineSingaporeBoy From Singapore, joined May 2005, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 18 hours ago) and read 6593 times:

Does that mean that UA have australian FAs also and are based in SYD or MEL?If they do have...how long have they been with UA and how often does UA recruit them in Australia?

[Edited 2010-11-18 08:19:07]

User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 18 hours ago) and read 6485 times:

I have always wondered why the US allow so many AC types for cabin crew. In the UK airlines are limited to 3 AC types per crew member with some types A318 up to the A321 falling under the same license. An exmple of this is at BA long haul crew are trained on 747s/777s and 767s with short haul on Airbus family/767.

DL/AA/UA would find it hard to cope if such laws were ever introduced in the states.


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9803 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 17 hours ago) and read 6407 times:

Quoting BA174 (Reply 14):
I have always wondered why the US allow so many AC types for cabin crew. In the UK airlines are limited to 3 AC types per crew member with some types A318 up to the A321 falling under the same license. An exmple of this is at BA long haul crew are trained on 747s/777s and 767s with short haul on Airbus family/767.

DL/AA/UA would find it hard to cope if such laws were ever introduced in the states.

Question out of ignorance, but is it that hard to know the operating procedures for each aircraft? It may require more training, but the exit operations are not that different for each airplane type. Doors are armed differently and some move differently, but it all involves pulling or rotating a red handle. Other than door operations, what other fleet type specific training is needed?

Quoting SingaporeBoy (Reply 13):
Does that mean that UA have australian FAs also and are based in SYD or MEL?If they do have...how long have they been with UA and how often does UA recruit them in Australia?

I believe that cabin crews operate LAX/SFO-SYD-rest-SYD-MEL-SYD-rest-SFO/LAX. I do not believe that UA has ever had Australia based FAs.

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 10):
However, on LAX-SYD it was a much younger crowd, mostly Hawaiian and Hispanic crew (saw some Central American flag pins) and let me tell you- they were all nasty and didn't want to be there.

LAX use to have more language qualified routes requiring Spanish, which is why you will see more hispanic crews out of the base.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 16 hours ago) and read 6318 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 15):
Quoting BA174 (Reply 14):
I have always wondered why the US allow so many AC types for cabin crew. In the UK airlines are limited to 3 AC types per crew member with some types A318 up to the A321 falling under the same license. An exmple of this is at BA long haul crew are trained on 747s/777s and 767s with short haul on Airbus family/767.

DL/AA/UA would find it hard to cope if such laws were ever introduced in the states.

Question out of ignorance, but is it that hard to know the operating procedures for each aircraft? It may require more training, but the exit operations are not that different for each airplane type. Doors are armed differently and some move differently, but it all involves pulling or rotating a red handle. Other than door operations, what other fleet type specific training is needed

Most European Airlines have the same rules and there are also sometimes time restrictions on how long crews can go without flying on certain aircraft without losing their certification. This is for example, only some BA LHR Worldwide crew do 767 flights because the fleet is much smaller and rotating all crew through the fleet would mean they would run out of time.

Admittedly the rules don't always make much sense a cabin crew can have one certification to work on all A330/A340 aircraft for example, or A32X which have different emergency exit layouts, safety equipment layouts etc


User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 15 hours ago) and read 6186 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 15):
Question out of ignorance, but is it that hard to know the operating procedures for each aircraft? It may require more training, but the exit operations are not that different for each airplane type. Doors are armed differently and some move differently, but it all involves pulling or rotating a red handle. Other than door operations, what other fleet type specific training is needed?

I believe that the US is the only country that allows unlimited AC type training for cabin crew. It would not suprise me if America did bring out new laws to limit the number of aircraft in the future.


User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1485 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 14 hours ago) and read 6136 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 15):
Question out of ignorance, but is it that hard to know the operating procedures for each aircraft? It may require more training, but the exit operations are not that different for each airplane type. Doors are armed differently and some move differently, but it all involves pulling or rotating a red handle. Other than door operations, what other fleet type specific training is needed?

Exit Operation procedures can vary greatly. Yes, doors are similar in that they all "open", but handle location, arming/disarming procedures etc are different. Normally it's not a problem as a lot of FA's will stick to the same aircraft type during a pairing/sequence, but it CAN and HAS lead to confusion...especially in situations where stress or fatigue were factored in or there was a sudden change in aircraft type/crew/position.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinem11stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 10 hours ago) and read 5941 times:

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 18):
Exit Operation procedures can vary greatly. Yes, doors are similar in that they all "open", but handle location, arming/disarming procedures etc are different. Normally it's not a problem as a lot of FA's will stick to the same aircraft type during a pairing/sequence, but it CAN and HAS lead to confusion...especially in situations where stress or fatigue were factored in or there was a sudden change in aircraft type/crew/position.

It also doesn't help that there can be different configurations of the same type of aircraft (think of all the different 757 configurations DL has) and during an emergency an F/A can easily get confused and forget where a piece of equipment is such as a life vest, oxygen bottle, etc. There have been several cases where F/As have been unable to locate emergency equipment during emergencies.

For example when UA811 lost cabin pressure over the pacific an F/A went to retrieve an O2 mask and bottle however it was not in the location she thought it would be and she nearly passed out.

The purser on US5050 was unable to locate his life vest after the aircraft crashed on takeoff from LGA and had to ask another F/A where the crew life vests were stored.

Depending on the type of seat some seat cushions float and some don't. The F/As on both World Airways 30 and National Airlines 193 thought the seat cushions were flotation devices and directed passengers to use them but it turned out they didn't float.

Small inconsistencies like these can be deadly.



My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 668 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 9 hours ago) and read 5876 times:

Perhaps far less important, but galleys and service procedures can vary greatly between even the same aircraft. At Qantas there are at least 3 different galley layouts on the 767 which on a shorter flight like SYD-MEL can mean the difference between a fast and slow service.

User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1739 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 4 hours ago) and read 5673 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 15):

I believe that cabin crews operate LAX/SFO-SYD-rest-SYD-MEL-SYD-rest-SFO/LAX. I do not believe that UA has ever had Australia based FAs.

The MEL trip is a day turn, usually operated one or two days after working the SYD trip. Then back to the US the next day, so: LAX-SYD rest, rest. SYD-MEL-SYD, rest. SYD-LAX.

Scheduling doesn't mix SFO and LAX bases for the MEL turn. It is either offered to SFOSW or LAXSW. It's usually pretty even though. There are also some oddball routings in the system, such as LAX-SYD-SFO (deadhead to LAX).

Quoting SingaporeBoy (Reply 13):
Does that mean that UA have australian FAs also and are based in SYD or MEL?

SYD and MEL trips are staffed out of the SFO and LAX domiciles. No Australian based crews. Current UA overseas bases (pre-merger): NRT, HKG, FRA, LHR.

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 20):
Perhaps far less important, but galleys and service procedures can vary greatly between even the same aircraft. At Qantas there are at least 3 different galley layouts on the 767 which on a shorter flight like SYD-MEL can mean the difference between a fast and slow service.
Quoting Jackbr (Reply 20):
Perhaps far less important, but galleys and service procedures can vary greatly between even the same aircraft. At Qantas there are at least 3 different galley layouts on the 767 which on a shorter flight like SYD-MEL can mean the difference between a fast and slow service.

Yes and no. What you are referring to, UA OnboardService calls "service flow." It's pretty standard throughout, though there are differences particularly in the premium cabins. That usually refers to who gets asked their meal choices first.
As for the rest, on most aircraft and flights- FAs can bid for galley positions. This is actually a favorable (to some) position and usually goes to the FAs with high seniority. The galley FA is definitely in the know re: where things are located. The service flow is usually the same.

On domestic, much of the guess-work that did exist has been taken out of the equation. Buy on Board products are loaded directly into the carts by the caterers. Its simply a matter of pulling out the carts, setting up the top displays and rolling down the aisles. Ovens and other galley equipment is barely used in the domestic Y cabin anymore.


User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month ago) and read 5545 times:

I think it is just dangerous to allow cabin crew to be trained on all aircraft types in the states when some of these carriers have over 20 types/different configs. A UK style law should be introduced meaning that crew can be trained on no more than three types to avoid accidents like the above happening as it means that crew are very familiar with the three types that they work on.

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