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KLM Orders A330-300's And ERJ's  
User currently offlinemauriceb From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2487 posts, RR: 25
Posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 25466 times:

KLM today announced that they will lease 3 A330-300's, for a period of atleast 7 years. They are ment for expension, although it could very well be that they soon will order more as an MD-11 replacement. First delivery is planned for early 2012.

Furthermore they are going to order 5 extra ERJ-190's, to replace the last 5 F-100's in the fleet.


Link is in dutch, but very reliable:

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?ID=37063

Edit: they also mentioned that this doesn't mean that KL will decide for the A350, but that its the only viable thing to order untill Boeing and Airbus can give them solide delivery dates and terms on either the 787 or A350.

[Edited 2010-11-18 00:42:33]

[Edited 2010-11-18 00:45:49]

74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 847 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 25443 times:

Great news!

A333 will look beautiful in KL´s livery, that´s for sure

//Mike      



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineBuyantukhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2828 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 25276 times:

Quoting mauriceb (Thread starter):
Link is in dutch, but very reliable:

Why wouldn't links in Dutch be reliable? 



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlinemauriceb From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2487 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 25252 times:

Quoting Buyantukhaa (Reply 2):

Mmm you got a lot to learn about the Dutch i see  

Kidding, just to make clear to the people who can't read Dutch that its reliable!


User currently offlinePM From India, joined Feb 2005, 6840 posts, RR: 64
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 25137 times:

Any idea from whom the A330s will be leased?

And will KLM follow Turkish and add A330-300s with RR to a fleet of A330-200s with GE?!         

(No, I don't think so either...   )


User currently offlinePH-BFA From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 24971 times:

Quoting solnabo (Reply 1):
A333 will look beautiful in KL´s livery, that´s for sure

And, for us MD-11 fans, the article also mentions that this great airliner will stay for another 5 to 6 years...


User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 24863 times:

Quoting Buyantukhaa (Reply 2):
Why wouldn't links in Dutch be reliable?

Because of all the weed they smoke ?

Quoting mauriceb (Thread starter):
KLM today announced that they will lease 3 A330-300's, for a period of atleast 7 years.

Will a leasing company order them new from Airbus, or will those be used birds returned to the lessor by some airline?



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlinencfc99 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 730 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 24862 times:

Quoting PH-BFA (Reply 5):
And, for us MD-11 fans

A quick question off topic. What routes do the MD-11's serve? I would love to get on one before they are retired.


User currently offlinemauriceb From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2487 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 24817 times:

Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 6):
Quoting mauriceb (Thread starter):
KLM today announced that they will lease 3 A330-300's, for a period of atleast 7 years.

Will a leasing company order them new from Airbus, or will those be used birds returned to the lessor by some airline?

I guess new ones, KLM actually never gets second-hand planes, except for the Fokker F70's...

Quoting ncfc99 (Reply 7):
Quoting PH-BFA (Reply 5):
And, for us MD-11 fans

A quick question off topic. What routes do the MD-11's serve? I would love to get on one before they are retired.

It will serve all 4 Canadian routes, it does SFO in the winter, Teheran, Panama and Bonaire--->Quayaquil


User currently offlinemauriceb From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2487 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 24493 times:

Just popped to mind, good to see KLM expending quite significant the recent and upcomming years.. the 7 77W's, and 5 A330's where all just for expension, so i guess we might see a bigger than one on one order for the A350/787 soon?

User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 24088 times:

Quoting ncfc99 (Reply 7):
Quoting PH-BFA (Reply 5):
And, for us MD-11 fans

A quick question off topic. What routes do the MD-11's serve? I would love to get on one before they are retired.

Word. I'm desperate to catch one before they go. Only done the Tristar and missed the big Diesel Ten, and am gutted about it to this day.

Perhaps someone on here might fancy setting up an A-net meet to catch one?

Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 6):
Quoting mauriceb (Thread starter):
KLM today announced that they will lease 3 A330-300's, for a period of atleast 7 years.

Will a leasing company order them new from Airbus, or will those be used birds returned to the lessor by some airline?

I would think they are new as older A333s are nowhere near as capable as current birds, and I would think KL would want to stretch their legs.

Quoting PM (Reply 4):
And will KLM follow Turkish and add A330-300s with RR to a fleet of A330-200s with GE?!

I'd be over the moon about that the same as you - for the same reason as well.

It would mean KL would be overwhelmingly likely to go A350!  



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3173 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 24052 times:

Any links to English speaking sources confiming this?

User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 23912 times:

Quoting mauriceb (Reply 8):
I guess new ones, KLM actually never gets second-hand planes, except for the Fokker F70's...

and F100's which the majority was also second hand.



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 22749 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 10):
uoting PM (Reply 4):
And will KLM follow Turkish and add A330-300s with RR to a fleet of A330-200s with GE?!

I'd be over the moon about that the same as you - for the same reason as well.

It would mean KL would be overwhelmingly likely to go A350!

But:

Quoting mauriceb (Thread starter):
they also mentioned that this doesn't mean that KL will decide for the A350, but that its the only viable thing to order untill Boeing and Airbus can give them solide delivery dates and terms on either the 787 or A350.

So, nothing decided there yet. And with the latest developments with the 787 and A350, chances of a nearby decision about the big A350/787 become less and less likely   Interesting is that KLM CEO Hartman specifically mentions the 787-9... IMHO, still the favourite for KL to replace the 744combi and M11 fleet.

Just 3 A333's for now, most likely to cover the routes KL will take over from MP. So, they haven't decided to replace the oldest MD11's yet, contrary to earlier reports. The article mentions they will leave the fleet not later than 2015/2016, so unless Boeing can guarantee delivery of the 787-9 in that timeframe, Airbus can be sure of another A333 order. Very unlikely that the A350 will be available then.



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT3,ATP,E90,F50/70,M11,
User currently offlinetripple7 From Netherlands, joined Aug 1999, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 21839 times:

Good news.

Does anyone know what the specs will be? How many seats, etc...


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9568 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 21772 times:

Quoting mauriceb (Thread starter):
Link is in dutch, but very reliable:

yes, the luchtvaartnieuws.nl website is usually a reliable source.

Quoting PM (Reply 4):
And will KLM follow Turkish and add A330-300s with RR to a fleet of A330-200s with GE?!

Who knows, maybe the A333 engine selection is also tied to the engine selection for the likely 787/A350 order to standardize the engines used throughout the AF/KL fleet. Just me opinion though...

Quoting mauriceb (Reply 8):
KLM actually never gets second-hand planes

Correct (except for the Fokker 70/100 fleet of course.

A388


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 21681 times:

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 13):
Interesting is that KLM CEO Hartman specifically mentions the 787-9... IMHO, still the favourite for KL to replace the 744combi and M11 fleet.

Agreed but you'd have to say leasing Trent-powered A333s would increase the chance of seeing an A350 in the light blue.

IMHO the 789 and A359 combo will work excellently for AFKL.

Aside - I just saw a KL ERJ190 coming into LHR. Must have replaced the F100 - first time ive seen a KL jungle jet at LHR.

How long have they been running them here? Bloody handsome birds, I have to say.

We dont get many ERJ170/190 series here. I'm struggling to recall the last time i saw one here.

Oh and as I write - Birthday Girl just flew over on the way into 9L. Still a stunning livery!   Man I love LHR!



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlinemauriceb From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2487 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 20949 times:

Mmm someone on another, dutch, forum (scramble) today say'd that KL is thinking about the A380, for flights to Asia.. According to that person Hartman (CEO) told that in an interview to the Telegraaf (newspaper). I'm searching the article but cant find anything yet.

User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 20672 times:

Quoting mauriceb (Reply 17):
Mmm someone on another, dutch, forum (scramble) today say'd that KL is thinking about the A380, for flights to Asia.. According to that person Hartman (CEO) told that in an interview to the Telegraaf (newspaper). I'm searching the article but cant find anything yet.

This is interesting, but I dont see it happening for a while yet. Eventually they are bound to, but before 2016 or 17, I dont see it to be honest.

Mind you, with all the slots EK have bought out and the likelihood of more going to BA/IB and some more to China shortly, it may be that KL is having to move to make sure the company can have A380s around 2017 / 18 sort of time, otherwise they wont be able to get delivery slots.

NRT, IAH, YYZ, the Antilles flights and def SXM spring to mind immediately. Like I said, not now, but things change quickly and the A380 will be an even more competitive beast in 2018 than it is now.

They could use a fleet of nine birds right now - three to go daily on NRT, two to go daily on YYZ, two for CUR and two for SXM.

I wonder what their demand pattern will be like by 2017/18?



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offline1peter From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19544 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 16):
Aside - I just saw a KL ERJ190 coming into LHR. Must have replaced the F100 - first time ive seen a KL jungle jet at LHR.

How long have they been running them here? Bloody handsome birds, I have to say.

They started using them at sched change on the 1017/1018......flown it once each way so far........really cool aircraft!



Airlines flown; AA, AC, AY, BA, BD, BY, CX, DA, DP, IB, KL, LH, LA, LP, MA & MH
User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19502 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 16):
Agreed but you'd have to say leasing Trent-powered A333s would increase the chance of seeing an A350 in the light blue.

Certainly. But RR powered A330's for AF/KL? Not while GE is available for those birds.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 16):
IMHO the 789 and A359 combo will work excellently for AFKL.

Fully agreed. The A359 would be perfect to replace AF's A343's and 772's. KL will keep their 772's till the next decade.

Quoting mauriceb (Reply 17):
Mmm someone on another, dutch, forum (scramble) today say'd that KL is thinking about the A380, for flights to Asia.. According to that person Hartman (CEO) told that in an interview to the Telegraaf (newspaper). I'm searching the article but cant find anything yet.

Well... to be exact (from the Scramble forum): KL CEO Hartman " doesn't rule out that KL will eventually use the A380 for flights to Beijing and Shanghai". That was specifically in context with heavy competition on those routes from EK, EY and QR. That is not really much of a commitment, just keeping any option open - as any CEO should. Good thing is that AF already has them of course, if AF with their A380 really can be more competitive on Asian routes than KL, we could very well see a KL A380 sooner than we thought. KL originally didn't plan to have the 77W in their fleet either, but after AF's experience with it, KL's orders for 772's were converted in no time...
Has AF options on the A380?



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT3,ATP,E90,F50/70,M11,
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9568 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 18077 times:

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 20):
Well... to be exact (from the Scramble forum): KL CEO Hartman " doesn't rule out that KL will eventually use the A380 for flights to Beijing and Shanghai". That was specifically in context with heavy competition on those routes from EK, EY and QR. That is not really much of a commitment, just keeping any option open - as any CEO should. Good thing is that AF already has them of course, if AF with their A380 really can be more competitive on Asian routes than KL, we could very well see a KL A380 sooner than we thought. KL originally didn't plan to have the 77W in their fleet either, but after AF's experience with it, KL's orders for 772's were converted in no time...
Has AF options on the A380?

Interesting development and looking forward to seeing an A380 wearing the nice KL colors!!! As for CUR and SXM receiving the A380, I don't know. CUR might be a potential route for such an aircraft but as said, not before 2017-18. And SXM, hmmm, not so sure KL will ever use such a big aircraft to SXM. I think AF would be serving SXM with the A380 before KL would.

A388


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 17841 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 21):

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 20):
Well... to be exact (from the Scramble forum): KL CEO Hartman " doesn't rule out that KL will eventually use the A380 for flights to Beijing and Shanghai". That was specifically in context with heavy competition on those routes from EK, EY and QR. That is not really much of a commitment, just keeping any option open - as any CEO should. Good thing is that AF already has them of course, if AF with their A380 really can be more competitive on Asian routes than KL, we could very well see a KL A380 sooner than we thought. KL originally didn't plan to have the 77W in their fleet either, but after AF's experience with it, KL's orders for 772's were converted in no time...
Has AF options on the A380?

Interesting development and looking forward to seeing an A380 wearing the nice KL colors!!! As for CUR and SXM receiving the A380, I don't know. CUR might be a potential route for such an aircraft but as said, not before 2017-18. And SXM, hmmm, not so sure KL will ever use such a big aircraft to SXM. I think AF would be serving SXM with the A380 before KL would.

Thing is, as someone else pointed out the other day on here - in a few years, if you want a quad (and SXM is one such airport where a quad is necessary) then it will have to be 748i or A380 as there wont be any 744, A340 or MD11 left.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17004 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 17810 times:

Quoting mauriceb (Reply 8):
t will serve all 4 Canadian routes, it does SFO in the winter, Teheran, Panama and Bonaire--->Quayaquil

If my memory serves me right, I believe I read that KL uses the MD11 on all their flights to Canada.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12324 posts, RR: 35
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 17811 times:

Quoting mauriceb (Reply 9):
Just popped to mind, good to see KLM expending quite significant the recent and upcomming years.. the 7 77W's, and 5 A330's where all just for expension, so i guess we might see a bigger than one on one order for the A350/787 soon?

It is great to see expansion and of course, AMS is a superb European and is going to become the hub of choice, particularly to Chinese destinations and indeed, KLM today announced some expansion in Asia; I think that we will see it continue to expand into "secondary" Chinese destinations like Chengdu, where it will be the first carriers - and there is plenty more to choose from - and the A330/777 are perfect for this.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 10):
Will a leasing company order them new from Airbus, or will those be used birds returned to the lessor by some airline?

I would think they are new as older A333s are nowhere near as capable as current birds, and I would think KL would want to stretch their legs.

Absolutely; they will be brand new! I can't recall when KLM has last taken secondhand widebodies into its fleet, if it has ever done so!

And don't forget, a new A332 is coming next April, to add to the 11 now in service (one added only last month as well), so 15 A330s in service, unless more are added - and I certainly wouldn't want to rule that out!

Quoting tripple7 (Reply 14):
Does anyone know what the specs will be? How many seats, etc...

Well, based on the current KLM A332 configuration, you could probably add another 48 Y seats (six rows of eight) to arrive at a good guess, BUT of course, KLM has recently announced a comfort service (Y+), so that might not be accurate.

It's amazing that the 330 still racks up sales day in day out; of course, "amazing" is the wrong word, as it is a superb aircraft, well deserving of its success, but nonetheless, it is interesting to see that it is now the third best selling widebody in history, after the 747 and 777.


25 keesje : KLM often adds additional aircraft short term in small numbers. Another 4 with 2 years would not be a surprise. The 777 growth option into the 300ER
26 frigatebird : I realise that due to the special characteristic of SXM airport a quad is far preferable in an engine-out scenario. But is a 2-engined airplane that
27 JRadier : And not forgetting a whole boatload of 734's from Air UK Leisure a while back!
28 airbuster : A330-300 Feb 2012 / CF6-80E1A3 / 30C 40Y 224M Mar 2012 / CF6-80E1A3 / 30C 40Y 224M Apr 2012 / CF6-80E1A3 / 30C 40Y 224M
29 Post contains images EPA001 : This is a very nice order from KLM for Airbus and Embraer. After the delivery the Fokker 100 will be completely phased out. Only the Fokker 70's (my w
30 TravelAVNut : So what is M class?!
31 Viscount724 : It's a standard generic IATA code for economy class.
32 JRadier : Monkey-class
33 YULWinterSkies : So, it is GE then and no RR?
34 AeroWesty : I don't want to take this thread off-topic, but could someone quickly summarize this special characteristic of SXM? I would think that a twin could j
35 CHRISBA777ER : Basically its to do with engine out performance and obstacle clearance - the aircraft has to be able to maintain a climb rate if one engine fails on
36 Post contains images PM : Someone - anyone! - loves the A343?! ConcordeBoy will be turning in his grave! Was there ever much doubt?
37 Post contains images mauriceb : I do love it!... When its hidden in the hangars... Serieously, when there is even more 787/A350 delays, i don't rule out that KL will place a big A33
38 joost : I don't understand the fuzz re SXM, as currently KL doesn't even fly SXM-AMS non-stop. Routings are AMS-SXM-CUR-AMS and AMS-SXM-BON-AMS. You don't ne
39 KL838 : That would be very exciting to see a KLM A380 at SXM, however wouldn't substantial changes would be needed considering the wingspan and weight of the
40 328JET : I guess it is a clear sign towards the A350 at KLM, because it will be the first time KLM will operate TWO airbus variants at the same time. In the pa
41 mauriceb : No? The A330-200 and 300 are almost identical, except for the range and size. I don't see why thats a clear sign towards the A350? Its just that they
42 328JET : I did not rule out the B787-9, but i see KLM ordering both B787/A350.
43 LJ : KLM will order nothing. It will be an AF/KL order and AF/KL mentioned many times that ordering both is indeed quite possible.
44 328JET : Indeed.
45 Viscount724 : Didn't many/most of the Fokker 100s also come with the purchase of Air UK, which became klmuk before becoming part of KLM CityHopper?
46 mauriceb : Say's who? AF/KL is announcing they will decide ''soon'' for 3 years now. And it is to be believed that KL actually already had options on 15+- 787s
47 LJ : AF/KL have made it clear (on numerous occasions) that they intend to order when both aircraft fly. As both aircraft don't actually fly, an order shou
48 328JET : Sometimes a single word means more than a whole page.
49 FlyAA757 : Any clue where the 333s will be used?
50 frigatebird : Yes, you are correct. Absolutely correct. And I don't want to rehash things already said, but some members obviously either don't read or don't want
51 keesje : I thing NWA showed the A333 can be a real champion on the Atlantic. And probably MEA flights. E.g. India is doable too from AMS.
52 76er : On the dutch spotter's website someone who appears to be in the know mentions JFK, ACC, CAI, DEL, YUL, IKA and ORD as possible destinations. Makes sen
53 Post contains images mauriceb : Keep in mind they only orderd three of them JFK, ACC, CAI, DEL and YUL will probably stay 777/MD-11/747. All Canada routes will go to MD-11, JFK will
54 HECA : 777s are flying to CAI both seat capacity wise (let us not forget C seats) and for its cargo capacity so if the A333 can meet the same demands I too
55 lijnden : Aren't these 3 A333 replacing the Martinair 767's? And are KLM and Boeing already looking into the (combi) 747-8M to replace the older 744M's?
56 CHRISBA777ER : No. The 747-8F or 8i will not be available as a Combi. The 744Ms will be replaced by 789s.
57 PH-BFA : That would be a dream come true. With the sluggish sales of the 747-8i who knows what boeing will offer them if they are seriously interested. I gues
58 Post contains images PH-BFA : Wow, so I guess you are working for Boeing and for KLM fleet planning at the same time ?
59 mauriceb : Hehe, altough its not definit, and we all have to keep political correct by saying both A350 and 787 make a good chance, the 787-9 is favoured at KLM
60 Post contains images frigatebird : No, KLM have earlier said the 748i is very unlikely to join the fleet, the 77W is the preferred replacement for the 744 full-pax. The 744combi can ve
61 PH-BFA : That is absolutely true. Regarding the 747-8M, Boeing never stated that the combi's can not be build anymore. However, it can not be certified with t
62 PH-BFA : that is correct, but I was referring to a possible combi version (which, I know, is also not very likely)
63 Post contains images CHRISBA777ER : No, but I am a Director level professional maritime and aviation business analyst with ten years experience across both sectors. Call it a hunch. I'v
64 mauriceb : Exactly what i thought, although i can see them still operating the A330's beyond 2018. Maybe, if it finally happens, F70NG's as well!
65 CHRISBA777ER : I'd be absolutely made up if Rekkof made a go of it - fine aircraft and if re-engined, given new avionics, lighter gear and redesigned interior would
66 burnsie28 : Im dissapointed by the Fokkers leaving the fleet, I was lucky enough to get a chance to fly on one FRA-AMS and it was the smoothest riding plane I had
67 Post contains images EPA001 : I fly them (mostly the F-70) every week. They are indeed smooth rides, but could do with a new interior (bigger luggage bins) and new avionics and en
68 CHRISBA777ER : I heard somewhere that they have the best despatch reliability in the entire KL fleet. I'd choose a F70NG over a CRJ, ARJ/BAE146 or ERJ145 any day if
69 Post contains images EPA001 : That would not surprise me at all.
70 Post contains links and images CHRISBA777ER : View Large View MediumPhoto © Roger Oldfield Handsome looking birds too.
71 Post contains links Aviopic : Untrue, dispatch reliability is quite all right. Like I posted earlier in this thread. A new interior is available including bigger bins and a new le
72 frigatebird : I'm pretty sure they will. The 789 as KL's smallest widebody seems a bit on the large side to be honest. And I believe KL's 772's are there to stay f
73 Post contains images CHRISBA777ER : I said it was the best not the worst.
74 Post contains images Aviopic : Oeps, my bad. Guess I am so used to read about the myth of something being wrong........
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