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Airport Security In Northern Canada A Concern: Expert  
User currently onlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3387 posts, RR: 9
Posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5253 times:

Read article at: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/north/story.../11/19/north-airport-security.html

Basically how it works up here in the Territories is if you're going on a nice jet to down south, same security as everyone else. If you're jumping on a 748 or a Twin Otter or something and going to some place in the middle of the arctic that nobodys heard of, we don't bother with security.

The reasoning is, what are the chances that someone is going to hijack an old HS748 flying between Old Crow and Inuvik?

The "expert's" theory is that a terrorist could come by boat to the far north, come ashore on Canada's northern coast, get on an unsecure flight to Whitehorse or Yellowknife or Iqaluit (thats where the security starts), then take the roads from there to wherever their final destination may be. Funny how when I look at a simple road map of Canada it seems pretty obvious that if northern flights were secure, said terrorist could quite easily drive his boat to the Inuvik area and then jump in a pickup and drive down the Dempster highway from there. So much for being an "expert" buddy...

Also as a side note, as one comment in the news article mentioned why would they take their boat to the arctic in the first place, when they can just go to either one of Canada's other coasts and get on shore there. Yes there are more chances of getting caught, but being just a large area I'm sure they can't search all of it all the time...

Regardless, as a northerner I think this would be a complete waste of our time and our tax dollars. I'm sorry dear Government but all this "as long as it looks like we're secure" bs getting old, the attempt to scare us isn't working, and I'm sure most people I know would agree that theres more important things to put our tax dollars towards right now.


CanadianNorth


What could possibly go wrong?
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4058 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5168 times:

I find it laughable any body would think that those flights would lead to terrorist threats. Has the writer of the article ever looked at how a terrorist could logistically do this. Now if you want to go blow up some tundra and terrorize the cariboo, be my guest, but I bet you won't be able to garner much attention from the world press.


Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineAF340 From Canada, joined Jul 2007, 2786 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5056 times:

Not to mention the fact that on those northerly flights people tend to know each other and see each other on a regular basis on those flights (whether for work or to get home). A guy from Yemen or Afghanistan on one of those flights would likely raise quite a few eyebrows!

User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6265 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 23 hours ago) and read 4870 times:

I think there are far, far more serious security concerns where the attention should be going. The odds of something happened to an old plane flying between two cities with a combined population of 9 are so small that it's ridiculous that money would go there rather than more serious concerns. The Canadian government would be much better spending money beefing up security in Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, etc. rather than Qikiqtarjuaq or Taloyoak

Quoting brilondon (Reply 1):
I find it laughable any body would think that those flights would lead to terrorist threats.

Dude, Al Qaeda of Nunavut is growing at an alarming rate


User currently onlineghYHZ From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 17 hours ago) and read 4626 times:

I had the opportunity of travelling on one of these flights last week.....an Air Labrador Twin Otter between Goose Bay YYR and Natuashish YNP. At Goose Bay there was no security screening but we were taken out to the aircraft by the pilot. We stopped at four small airports on the way up to YNP.....just long enough to drop off a parcel or pick up a passenger. Returning, we did not receive a boarding pass but our names were checked against a manifest. We just carried our baggage out to the Otter to be stowed in the nose. Arriving back in YYR we claimed our baggage on the belt and since we were continuing “south” we proceeded to the JAZZ counter to check-in for YHZ.

At Goose Bay you are also responsible to have your checked baggage screened in your presence prior to it being accepted. This is done at one side of the check-in counters. Then you proceed through security screening the same as you would at any other airport.....and maybe even with a bit more scrutiny. Goose is a small airport so plenty of time for individual attention!

[Edited 2010-11-20 16:27:48]

User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 17 hours ago) and read 4571 times:

At YVR south, there is no screening of pax. I guess the checked in bags are scanned (not sure), but the carry on is not. We are 5 mins flying time from the US border. The Beech 1900's etc have no partition between the cabin and cockpit.

And there are so many areas over the south side where ramp rats or other screened staff airside can easily meet up with the public the other side of the fence with stuff in the back of a pick up or van. Im sure it happens with drugs quite regularly.

Then theres all the GA fields like Boundary Bay, Pitt Meadows, Langley, Delta Airpark even YXX where it would be pretty easy to pinch a plane if you really wanted to.

None of that remotely bothers me, but its a far greater concern surely than what this expert is going on about. And surely an unknown boat wont get too far up into the Arctic anyways, arent there always Arcturas's & Hornets buzzing around up there?



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24075 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 16 hours ago) and read 4493 times:

I believe there is also no security screening on regional flights in Australia..

User currently onlineghYHZ From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 15 hours ago) and read 4462 times:

Is there full TSA screening for flights operating in Alaska that would be similar to those in Canada's north?

User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 12 hours ago) and read 4341 times:
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Quoting ghYHZ (Reply 7):
Is there full TSA screening for flights operating in Alaska that would be similar to those in Canada's north?

Last time was there, in 2007(?), all PenAir, Era, Frontier Flying etc were non secure flights out of ANC. Returning from Homer, checked bags were swabbed, and that was all. I have no idea if it has changed ( I tend to think not.) Which is all fine as far as I am concerned.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently onlineghYHZ From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 1 hour ago) and read 4176 times:

Quoting ghYHZ (Reply 4):
I had the opportunity of travelling on one of these flights last week.....an Air Labrador Twin Otter between Goose Bay YYR and Natuashish YNP

Arrival at YNP......claim your baggage at the plane door, load it in the truck and you are on your way



[Edited 2010-11-21 08:21:04]

User currently onlineghYHZ From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3990 times:

Quoting ghYHZ (Reply 4):
I had the opportunity of travelling on one of these flights last week.....an Air Labrador Twin Otter between Goose Bay YYR and Natuashish YNP

Just posted a full report on this trip over at the "Trip Report Forum"


User currently offlineRJLover From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 571 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3882 times:

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 5):
At YVR south, there is no screening of pax. I guess the checked in bags are scanned (not sure), but the carry on is not. We are 5 mins flying time from the US border. The Beech 1900's etc have no partition between the cabin and cockpit.

Are you sure about that? Although I've never flown out of YVR's South Term., 8P's pax are sterile on arrival in YYJ so there must be screening involved.



Last Flight(s): YHZ-YYZ-YVR // YVR-YYJ // YYJ-YYZ-YUL-YHZ.....Next Flight(s):
User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2127 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3846 times:

Quoting sw733 (Reply 3):
Dude, Al Qaeda of Nunavut is growing at an alarming rate

They used to be, until they had their ass(ets) frozen.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlinejspitfire From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 308 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3742 times:

Quoting CanadianNorth (Thread starter):
Basically how it works up here in the Territories is if you're going on a nice jet to down south, same security as everyone else. If you're jumping on a 748 or a Twin Otter or something and going to some place in the middle of the arctic that nobodys heard of, we don't bother with security.

This is not just the arctic, this is normal for all of Canada. There are countless small towns that have scheduled service and do not require screening. I don't know why the CBC thinks the north is so special.

Quoting RJLover (Reply 11):
Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 5):
At YVR south, there is no screening of pax. I guess the checked in bags are scanned (not sure), but the carry on is not. We are 5 mins flying time from the US border. The Beech 1900's etc have no partition between the cabin and cockpit.

Are you sure about that? Although I've never flown out of YVR's South Term., 8P's pax are sterile on arrival in YYJ so there must be screening involved.

If you're not screened, your checked bags aren't either. Some of the destinations out of South Terminal are screened, as they are going to other large airports. But many of the smaller ones, such as Trail, Masset, Port Hardy, Bella Bella, Bella Coola are not screened.


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2032 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3731 times:

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 5):
At YVR south, there is no screening of pax.

That's incorrect. All flights destined for listed airports from the South Terminal are secure, as per the ACSM.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 5):
I guess the checked in bags are scanned (not sure)

All bags destined for listed airports are screened.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 5):
And there are so many areas over the south side where ramp rats or other screened staff airside can easily meet up with the public the other side of the fence with stuff in the back of a pick up or van.

That would be difficult to accomplish within the vicinity of the South Terminal itself. There's too much ramp activity and security surveillance to pull something off like that without being noticed by somebody. Plus everyone knows each other, which makes shady characters stick out like a sore thumb.

[Edited 2010-11-21 19:50:42]


No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineczbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 970 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3685 times:

Quote:
Terrorists could take advantage of those lax security measures to get into North America, said Robert Huebert, a political science professor at the University of Calgary who specializes in Arctic studies.

"If you can get to the [Arctic] shore by some form of maritime transport, then you can get onto one of these aircrafts without being checked," Huebert told CBC News.

This is reason enough to argue that we have too many political scientists running amok in Canada.

Yeah, some terrorists are going to get into a boat, span either the Pacific or the Atlantic ocean (or else traverse Siberia to a pre-arranged meet-point) cruise by boat in the Beaufort Sea or Lancaster Sound.... undetected.... to Canada's northern coast. Then they are going to schlep their dangerous cargo from the water's edge to an airport nearby (maybe 20 miles... or 1500 miles) to get into a puddle jumper and fly to a major centre, like Yellowknife- a hub for all things terrorist.

Then, they walk from their DHC Twin Otter straight onto an awaiting Boeing 767 that will fly them to some big ol' city to do "terrorism".

Yeah, really likely.

There isn't even any screening for pax traveling between Coal Harbour (Downtown Vancouver) and Victoria Harbour. And that is just the way it should be. Enough is enough.

Terrorism is only terrorism is we allow it to terrorize us. Giving 'experts' the free reign to pronounce security 'threats' like this is crying "Wolf" IMHO.


User currently offlineyenne09 From Canada, joined Jun 2010, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3512 times:

Last summer I went to Whitehorse and Tuktoyaktuk (trough Inuvik). I tokk a flight from Whitehorse to Inuvik on an Air
North HS 748. When boarding this flight there were no security check. On the flights Inuvik-Tuktoyaktuk and Tuktoyaktuk
Inuvk there were no security check too. When i started to came back to the south the flight between Inuvik and Edmonton was done in two phases. At Inuvik no security check happened. But when we landed in Yellowknife, everybody had to get off the airplane to pass through the security check. We were allowed to go back to the plane just after the security check. So don't worry, as soon as you are going to the capital cities of the territories, you can't avoid the security check if you are going south (Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa and Montreal).


User currently offlineThreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2127 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3393 times:

Quoting TheCol (Reply 14):
Plus everyone knows each other, which makes shady characters stick out like a sore thumb.

Balderdash. Not everybody knows each other at the South Terminal, nor do most of them pay particular attention beyond their immediate surroundings. I can gain legitimate airside access and walk unchallenged almost wherever I please; certainly to places at which it's possible to do harm. What are "shady characters"? Sounds like someone grew up reading too many Hardy Boy books.

I just think the whole concept (arctic terrorist access, and hysteria about passenger security screening between Masset and YVR) is ludicrous. What have we become?



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2032 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3285 times:

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 17):
Not everybody knows each other at the South Terminal

I'm not even currently posted there and have business there less than 2x a week, yet most regular staff know me by name.

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 17):
nor do most of them pay particular attention beyond their immediate surroundings.

Which, when you add it all up, covers most of the South Terminal.

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 17):
I can gain legitimate airside access and walk unchallenged almost wherever I please.


Then your RAIC pass is working properly.

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 17):
What are "shady characters"? Sounds like someone grew up reading too many Hardy Boy books.

Never read them.

Suspicious individuals (aka. people who don't belong). They're pretty easy to spot there.

[Edited 2010-11-22 12:50:21]


No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlinejspitfire From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 308 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3187 times:

Quoting TheCol (Reply 14):
Plus everyone knows each other, which makes shady characters stick out like a sore thumb.
Quoting TheCol (Reply 18):
Suspicious individuals (aka. people who don't belong). They're pretty easy to spot there.

I would think a person acting suspiciously would be fairly easy to spot anywhere. The whole definition of "acting suspiciously" is that it tends to draw attention. And sure the staff may know each other and regular passengers, but there are thousands of tourists that come through there too. Surely they're not all suspicious just because no one has ever seen them before.

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 17):
I can gain legitimate airside access and walk unchallenged almost wherever I please

legitimate is the key word. If you want to start talking about the security of airport workers and what they could do, that's an entirely different topic from whether or not a passenger gets screened.


User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3090 times:

Im not saying theres an issue with what happens at the south terminal... but it would not be impossible to slip something over the fence in the dark if you really wanted to do so. There are plenty of out of the way areas and security cant be omnipresent.

Quoting jspitfire (Reply 19):
If you want to start talking about the security of airport workers and what they could do, that's an entirely different topic from whether or not a passenger gets screened.

Of course it is, but it could be a greater risk than pax as they are viewed as 'safe' due to the background checks and that they 'are known'. Pay someone some big bucks, they could be persuaded to turn bad or could be planted into the job. And if it can happen with drugs, why not something else? The government obviously think drugs are enough of an issue as they want to strip search airport workers now........
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/can...e/3866503/story.html#ixzz162LBLjHY
Not saying I agree with any of it, just pointing out there are logically greater risks than an Arctic invasion...

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 17):
I just think the whole concept (arctic terrorist access, and hysteria about passenger security screening between Masset and YVR) is ludicrous. What have we become?

Yep, its all crap - Im just trying to point out you can never bolt all the doors and think of all the what ifs.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineyfbflyer From Canada, joined Sep 2006, 298 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3023 times:

Rubbish and fear mongering

P.S. If you can find a road from Iqaluit to the south I sure would be intrested


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