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Impact Of A380 Incident On Sales  
User currently offlineb707forever From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 459 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11306 times:

Are carriers seeing a dip in bookings for A380 as a result of its recent history? Obviously QF still has theirs grounded but I'm wondering about a longer term impact on future sales for those that operate the A380?

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNWA330nut From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 115 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10938 times:

Quoting b707forever (Thread starter):
b707forever

I thought the the problem was with the RR engines and not the A380 itself.


User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 39
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10792 times:

I don't think there will be any dip in bookings.

After all, the engine problems have occurred in B747 (RB211 uncontained failures), B777 (Trent 800 rollback issues, GE90 failures) and A380 (Trent 900 issues) as well in recent times.

If you consider all those, nobody will fly on any planes. People still have to fly - and sometimes the choice of plane is unavoidable.

[Edited 2010-11-21 13:56:00]

User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4360 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 10680 times:

Agredds, but as we say "Der Lack ist ab" - the popularity of the A380 has got a hit, and it has got more like a normal plane, just the best and biggest currently in service, and the number of people who take a detour just to book on it will be slightly less.

User currently offlineIMissPiedmont From United States of America, joined May 2001, 6260 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10458 times:

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 3):
just the best and biggest currently in service

The fact that it's the biggest is beyond dispute but the best ? That is an opinion not shared by all. It is though the ugliest and that is also an opinion.

It won't hurt passenger bookings at all in a couple weeks, very few passengers know what an A380 is.



Is grammar no longer taught is schools? Saying "me and her" or some such implies illiteracy.
User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 39
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10424 times:

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 4):
That is an opinion not shared by all. It is though the ugliest and that is also an opinion.

Dispute about its style or the best also seems to run along national/patriotic lines, I note.

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 4):
very few passengers know what an A380 is.

They know it quite well. Maybe not in some remote part of a country with no airports within hundreds of kilometres where someone has never flown on a plane in their entire life, but in the cities - it's well known enough.

I've had so many people ask me about the A380 - they see me photographing planes with high end camera gear and automatically assume I must know something about the issues.

Going by sales, it would appear to be the best of the Very Large Passenger Aircraft at the moment (A380/B747-8i are the only very large passenger planes on the market).

[Edited 2010-11-21 15:38:28]

User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 6729 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10228 times:

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 4):
It won't hurt passenger bookings at all in a couple weeks, very few passengers know what an A380 is.
Quoting cpd (Reply 5):
They know it quite well.

We have seen at least on this site numerous post of specifically booking the A380 due to comfort, prestige, etc etc etc. Don't know about sales but bookings are down due to the a/c not being in service as engines are replaced / repaired.
Would be something if folks now inquire whether their A380 flight is being operated with replaced engines  


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7929 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10188 times:

The fact that Rolls-Royce fixed the problem with modified compressor stages on the Trent 970 engine means it will have very little effect on sales--for now. But in the longer run, it could tilt A380 sales to more planes using the Engine Alliance GP7270 engine, though.

User currently offlineadam42185 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 9250 times:

I think the OP means sales of tickets on the plane, not sales of the plane itself. I may be wrong though, correct me if so. The general public is more apt to know A380 if that, not what type of engine it is using. If an engine "isn't working" on an A380, most people will attribute that to the A380, not the engine manufacturer and completely discount that there maybe be different engines on different A380s. There in lies a major difference between a.nutters and the general person.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29686 posts, RR: 84
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8953 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I expect the fact that every single QF incident is now in the media will have a stronger effect on QF's bookings than the engine incident.

As to other A380 operators, I imagine it will have a very, very, very negligible effect.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12420 posts, RR: 100
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8840 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Short term, there will be an impact.


Long term, we'll once again see how short the attention span of the public is. All we need is a 'pop tart' arrested for something interesting and all will be forgotten.

There are other issues that might drive down demand, but those discussions belong in other threads.

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3321 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8475 times:

I think the impact at most will be 1 frame. Which Airbus will show as an extra order, even if its more like 1 slot position lost. Thats *IF* they part out the damaged A380 instead of repair.

Don't forget any and all of the A380 can be delivered with non-RR engines. So even if RR manages to burn its bridges, A380 customers have the option to keep the plane they clearly wanted to begin with.


User currently offlinecygnuschicago From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7686 times:

I'm not sure how there can be a dip in sales. I've been reading airliners.net for a while now, and as I understand it from this site, even before the incident, the A380 was

- hugely unpopular with airlines and passengers
- airlines only bought it for the free A330's they got with it
- most airports would never let it land there
- the last EK order was definitely the last order the A380 would EVER get

So, given the above was all established as fact on airliners.net before the incident, there will be no impact (except on QFs bottom line, which is sure to go up now that they have grounded the A380).

 



If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4360 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7061 times:

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 4):
It won't hurt passenger bookings at all in a couple weeks, very few passengers know what an A380 is.

That may be true in th US, but over here it is common knowlege of every child in the Kindergarten that airlines today fly new modern quiet luxerious environmental clean A380 or still outfashioned loud uncomfortable dirty old planes.
Good advertisement makes its way, and the way Lufthansa celebrated its A380 deliveries came down into the most hidden corner of every residence for senior citizans.

With the QF incident, LH also stopped its A380 campaign immediately for obvious reasons, which means that this informational soup isn't hot currently - making it hot again will be difficult.


User currently offlinemaxter From Australia, joined May 2009, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6987 times:

Quoting cygnuschicago (Reply 12):
I'm not sure how there can be a dip in sales. I've been reading airliners.net for a while now, and as I understand it from this site, even before the incident, the A380 was

- hugely unpopular with airlines and passengers
- airlines only bought it for the free A330's they got with it
- most airports would never let it land there
- the last EK order was definitely the last order the A380 would EVER get

So, given the above was all established as fact on airliners.net before the incident, there will be no impact (except on QFs bottom line, which is sure to go up now that they have grounded the A380)

Just brilliant, you made my day...      



maxter
User currently offlinenoelg From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6711 times:

I saw a thread on another, non-av forum over the weekend "Have you ever flown on a super jumbo", basically enquiring as to what it was like on the A380.

Not one mention was made of the engine issues across several pages, not even of the Qantas incident, most of them were people saying "No but I would love to go on one". A couple of "I hate flying so would never go on an airliner", but for the most part I would say people really do not give a damn about the engine issues outside of A.net.


User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6404 times:

There may be a few pax who will avoid the A380 right now. But long term there will be no impact. You have to remember that out of the UK, at least, the A380 plies routes which have no spare capacity so pax have little if any choice. For example, MAN-DXB and beyond or LHR-SIN and beyond.

User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2004 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6366 times:

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 4):
It won't hurt passenger bookings at all in a couple weeks, very few passengers know what an A380 is.

A lot of passengers do know what it is, mention the double deck super jumbo to laymen, and they'll have an idea what you're talking about. it's not as recognisable as the iconic 747 or Concorde, but clearly more well known that all the twin engined tubes...



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineNavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1144 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6294 times:

Quoting b707forever (Thread starter):
Are carriers seeing a dip in bookings for A380 as a result of its recent history? Obviously QF still has theirs grounded but I'm wondering about a longer term impact on future sales for those that operate the A380?

It is an engineproblem related to the RR engine. There is another engine available on the airframe. Most airlines know this so there should be no impact on sales at all for this reason.



747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S
User currently offlineaviatorcraig From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2010, 182 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5854 times:

It will have no impact at all.

In the 1970/80s the DC-10 had several high profile tragedies with large loss of life. To follow the OPs logic through, no one should have set foot on a DC-10 again, but of course they did.

The travelling public mainly cares about flight times and ticket costs. Safety is something the "authorities" oversee and an accident is something that will never happen to them... and the vast majority will be right!



707 727 Caravelle Comet Concorde Dash-7 DC-9 DC-10 One-Eleven Trident Tristar Tu-134 VC-10 Viscount plus boring stuff!
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12879 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5820 times:

While one A380 did have a serious incident, no one died or injured and the plane landed safely. It is also clear the problem was with the engine, not the airframe. I suspect that few that fly would not choose to be on an A-380 because of these incidents. In turn, should not affect the airliner orders for it. Some airliners that have them have made the reasonable decision and not promote their use with their airline and until the issue is resolved with the engines. The greater issue is as to QF from the loss of use of much of their A-380 fleet indefenitely at a peak demand time. Hopefully in a few weeks we will have a better idea as to the cause of the failure of the engine and if this a/c can be repaired and returned to revenue service.

User currently offlinecygnuschicago From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4704 times:

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 13):
With the QF incident, LH also stopped its A380 campaign immediately for obvious reasons, which means that this informational soup isn't hot currently - making it hot again will be difficult.

It is kind of ironic that in the latest LH in-flight magazine, they have an article trumpeting the advanced RR Trent's on their A380 fleet, and the RR maintenance center they have. Bad timing, to be going out of your way to advertise that your A380s have only RR engines.



If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4561 times:

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 4):
very few passengers know what an A380 is.

And you're basing that statement on what exactly? I do assume you mean only in your opinion of course.

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 17):
it's not as recognisable as the iconic 747 or Concorde

I agree with your post entirely. However, I would say that it is easily as recognisable as the 747 or Concorde......when people see it in size they immediately realise what it is.


User currently offlineDelboy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 725 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3915 times:

There will always be passengers who would not fly on a particular aircraft after an incident but they are few and far between (and normally locked away and kept away from sharp objects for their own safety).

We should remember that this is an engine problem, not an aircraft one and, as someone has already eluded to, if you were to stop flying a particular aircraft because of an incident, you wouldn't get very far these daya.


User currently offline747classic From Netherlands, joined Aug 2009, 2011 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3553 times:

This high profile "narrow escape" A380 event highlights a major problem for the Board of Directors of major airlines, with a large fleet of (VLA) aircraft.
Seen the increased media attention for aviation accidents (especially with many passengers involved), a specific aircraft type can become compromised for (passenger) operation, due PR reasons. This "one type only" strategy can lead to an unacceptable high risk for the airline involved. What would have happened with SQ as the A388/RR was grounded ?

What will be better : concentrating on only one aircraft type or choosing two competing aircraft for (nearly) the same mission, in case one aircraft type is grounded and/or compromised . Choosing two aircraft types from two manufacturers will spread the risk and the dependability from the manufacturer will decrease at the same time.

In this case IMO both SQ and EK should reconsider their VLA policy :

- choosing two competing aircraft for the same mission. (in this case A388 and B747-8I)
- for follow-on orders a new bid is opened for both manufacturers, resulting in lower ownership costs.
- above a certain fleet size (greater then 20-30) of VLA aircraft the number of scale is not so important anymore.

IMO, up to now only LH (and KAL) took the only correct VLA decision and bought both the A388 and the B747-8I.

[Edited 2010-11-22 08:18:10]


Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
25 noelg : Exactly. And remember, that was a time when people were a lot more interested in the type of aircraft they were going to fly on, whereas these days,
26 b707forever : I worked for AA 74-79 and knew the FA on the ORD-EWR flight that did a 90 degree angle and threw out the casket over Michigan. I was in reservations
27 2175301 : I'm sure Southwest and a number of other airlines will tell you that the advantages of one type of aircraft outweigh the risk. I do note a difference
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