Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Pan Am @ ORD  
User currently offlinePillowTester From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 245 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10277 times:

I'm interested to know what Pan Am's operations were like at Chicago O'Hare. Wikipedia lists O'Hare as a focus city of Pan Am, yet there are only three pictures of classic Pan Am aircraft and one picture of a Pan Am III aircraft in the entire A.net database.

If anyone could perhaps elaborate on Pan Am's operations at O'Hare? The history of when it started, when it ended, how big did it ever get? Where did they serve?


...said Dan jubilantly.
38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineazstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10215 times:

Pan Am initially flew only one daily flight from ORD to LHR. It was an interchange with Braniff that started in Houston, stopped in Dallas, the swapped crew to fly the ORD/LHR 747 leg. In 1970, the U.S. Government said that only one US carrier could fly the route in competition with BA, so PA was forced to cede the route to TWA in exchange for IAD/LHR. Following that, PA really struggled at ORD. In about 1972 they flew one daily 727 ORD/MBJ/KIN/PTY. I think that lasted about a year. Then again, in about 1978 they flew a 707 ORD/FRA/WAW. They were competing with LH 747, so that flight didn't last either. In about 1980 ( I think) they started ORD/BOS which connected with a minibank of flights to LHR/FRA/LIS/FCO. That didn't last too long either. A short time later they began MSP/ORD/JFK service with an L1011. About the same time they flew ORD/SFO with L1011 also. I think those flights operated until they ceased operations entirely.

[Edited 2010-11-24 15:30:59]

User currently offlineBureaucromancer From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10210 times:

I've seen some route maps that indicate services to Europe and possibly some connections to the real east and west coast hubs, but it never really looked all that important except in the sense that there weren't many cities that had even that much Pan Am service outside the traditional hubs. It really was an incredibly hub focussed operation from everything I've seen (at least until the National Merger, which to me is more or less the spiritual end of the old Pan Am).

See the above post; much more solid knowledge of the network than I have.

[Edited 2010-11-24 15:32:06]

User currently offlineazstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10187 times:

Prior to deregulation, Pan Am was not allowed to operate any domestic flights, and most airlines, with the exception of NW and TW were not allowed to fly international flights. So, you flew a domestic airline to connect with PA at JFK if you were going to the Caribbean, Europe, or Africa, MIA if you were going to South America or the Caribbean, LAX or SFO if you were going to the North or South Pacific. Services from interior U.S. cities was minimal, usually only one or two international nonstops.

User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10186 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 1):

ORDMIA was served during the winters, off and on, throughout the '80s. ORDFRAWAW/KRK was flown in 1989 for one summer only. ORDSFO was cut after the Pacific sale in 1986.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8428 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10147 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Pan AM flights at ORD in its last years were largely to JFK to feed the JFK hub. Pan AM never had any large significant Chicago presence.

User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6873 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10063 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 1):
Pan Am initially flew only one daily flight from ORD to LHR. It was an interchange with Braniff

The Braniff interchange was a jet age addition, as I recall. Pan Am first started ORD around 1955.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10017 times:

Pan Am never had much service from ORD. Following is their service from random timetables from the 1950s until shortly before they suspended service.

January 1958
ORD-DTW-SNN-LHR-FRA 3 per week DC-7C (no local traffic ORD-DTW)

August 1963
ORD-LHR-FRA daily (707 or DC-8)
That was an interchange service with Braniff from DAL and HOU with DAL-HOU-ORD sectors operated by Braniff.

April 1973
ORD-MBJ-KIN-PTY daily 727-100
(Europe service ended sometime between 1963 and 1973)

April 1979
No passenger service. Only all-cargo service as follows:
ORD-JFK-LHR-BRU 4 per week 747F
ORD-JFK-BRU 1 per week 747F
ORD-SFO-HNL-NAN-SYD 1 per week 747F

April 1980
Still only all-cargo service.

October 1982
ORD-JFK 1 daily 727-200

February 1987
ORD-MIA 1 daily 727-200
ORD-JFK 1 daily 727-200 (continued as change-of-gauge service to FRA using 747 with same flight number)

October 1991 (2 months before their demise)
ORD-JFK 1 daily 727-200

[Edited 2010-11-24 16:22:23]

User currently offlineGlobalCabotage From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 605 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9970 times:

I believe MSP was a tag in the late years.

User currently offlineWROORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 958 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9897 times:

I flew Pan Am in January of 1988 FRA-IAD and I could have sworn they also had FRA-LHR-ORD.

User currently offlinecharlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9779 times:

Quoting GlobalCabotage (Reply 8):
I believe MSP was a tag in the late years.

I don't even thint that was ORD flights...I believe it was MSP-JFK and it was flown with an interesting blend of ac, in MSP I recall seeing L-1011,747sp and some 727's on this trip.


User currently offlineNADC10Fan From United States of America, joined May 2005, 165 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9664 times:

I can definitely confirm that PA flew L1011-500's on the JFK-ORD route in the mid-late 80's. My family used to take that flight regularly, in summer, part of a r/t originating in MIA (which was usually old NA DC10's, but also sometimes another 1011). I don't ever recall us having a lesser aircraft on the route ... although it was certainly possible.


TANSTAAFL!
User currently offlinecharlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9205 times:

In the 1989 it was an A310, in their last couple years it was a B727.

User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6475 times:

I saw a Pan Am 747SP departing from ORD in summer 1987. It was the first 747SP I had seen in person and this was before United took over the Pan Am Pacific routes. I do recall at later times seeing the UAL SPs but this was definitely a Pan Am SP

User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6406 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 13):
I saw a Pan Am 747SP departing from ORD in summer 1987. It was the first 747SP I had seen in person and this was before United took over the Pan Am Pacific routes.

UA picked up the Pacific routes in early 1986, the 747SPs were gone from PA by 1987, for sure. If you saw a PA 747 at ORD, it was an equipment sub. A310s and 727s were the norm by 1987-88.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6176 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 14):
Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 13):
I saw a Pan Am 747SP departing from ORD in summer 1987. It was the first 747SP I had seen in person and this was before United took over the Pan Am Pacific routes.

UA picked up the Pacific routes in early 1986, the 747SPs were gone from PA by 1987, for sure. If you saw a PA 747 at ORD, it was an equipment sub. A310s and 727s were the norm by 1987-88.

Fleet lists show all 11 Pan Am 747SPs going to UA in 1986 with the Pacific route purchase. A Pan Am 747SP at ORD in 1987 was likely a UA flight using an ex-PA 747SP that hadn't yet been repainted. There are no Pan Am 747SP photos in the database dated after 1986. They operated in interim livery for a while as in 2nd photo below. The other 5 photos are all of the same aircraft which still exists as the NASA SOFIA airborne observatory. Can see the housing for the large rear fuselage door for the telescope in last photo.,


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ken Rose
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon Collection-Pima Air and Space Museum



(Small titles and large titles)

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Brian Lockett
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tim Chaloner


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Javier Rodriguez - Iberian Spotters
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ben Wang



User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5273 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6098 times:

I remember seeing PA 747s regularly at ORD after the 747 entered service in the late 60s/early 70s. The 747s weren't around long, but they were at ORD on a daily basis.

I also seem to remember when PA started flying ORD-JFK in the mid 80s that service was with a 727. I seem to recall seing 727s parked on the international ramp, when UA was building the current Terminal 1, and the international carriers were sent to the first level of the parking garage.


User currently offlinePacificClipper From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6073 times:

Which brings up another question. What terminal did PA use for domestic ops -- concouse G? Also, what was the int'l terminal before T-5? Thanks!


Fly Beautiful :: 747
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6041 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 16):
I remember seeing PA 747s regularly at ORD after the 747 entered service in the late 60s/early 70s. The 747s weren't around long, but they were at ORD on a daily basis.

They may have been charters if they were in the early 1970s. In the later 1970s PA did operate 747s from ORD but they were freighters (see Reply 7). There was a period in the late 1970s when PA's only ORD service was the all-cargo operation.


User currently offlinecharlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1131 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5978 times:

Quoting PacificClipper (Reply 17):
Which brings up another question. What terminal did PA use for domestic ops -- concouse G? Also, what was the int'l terminal before T-5? Thanks!

In the last few years they were parking at the NWA gates on the E concourse, before that they were parking at the hardstand area, pretty much where T5 is now.


User currently offlineisitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5877 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 3):
, and most airlines, with the exception of NW and TW were not allowed to fly international flights.

On the surface without research you would think that, but BN did Mexico and South America, Eastern did Montreal and Mexico City, UA did Vancouver and Toronto, and DL flew to Montego Bay, Caracas Havana and Nassau.
Lets toss in .......National flew to Havana and AA flew NYC to Toronto. Western flew to Mexico City from LAX.
So, now we can say most airlines flew international, but on a limited basis, except for Pan Am, TW and NW.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlinemaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1110 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5855 times:

And American flew to Mexico City and that Pacific resort city that I can't seem to spell right now!

User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5929 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5843 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I actually kind of regret not flying PA more often. I flew them once on a 747SP from SFO to LAX...with continuing service SYD and MEL.

User currently offlinemaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1110 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5798 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 3):
Prior to deregulation, Pan Am was not allowed to operate any domestic flights, and most airlines, with the exception of NW and TW were not allowed to fly international flights. So, you flew a domestic airline to connect with PA at JFK if you were going to the Caribbean, Europe, or Africa, MIA if you were going to South America or the Caribbean, LAX or SFO if you were going to the North or South Pacific. Services from interior U.S. cities was minimal, usually only one or two international nonstops.

National Airlines was awarded MIA-LHR in 1969; service began in 1970 with DC-8s. They were only the third U.S. airline to have transatlantic service before de-regulation. The DC-8s were replaced by 747s and DC-10s later on. Russ Farris


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5709 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
Fleet lists show all 11 Pan Am 747SPs going to UA in 1986 with the Pacific route purchase. A Pan Am 747SP at ORD in 1987 was likely a UA flight using an ex-PA 747SP that hadn't yet been repainted. There are no Pan Am 747SP photos in the database dated after 1986. They operated in interim livery for a while as in 2nd photo below. The other 5 photos are all of the same aircraft which still exists as the NASA SOFIA airborne observatory. Can see the housing for the large rear fuselage door for the telescope in last photo.,

Thanks for the info. I had thought UAL took over the Pacific routes in 1988. I wasn't aware of that back in 1987. Who else would have flown 747SPs into ORD in summer 1987? TWA had unloaded theirs by then too right?


25 Viscount724 : Yes, TWA sold their 3 747SPs in 1985-86. One went to Dubai for VIP use in 1985 and the other two to AA in 1986.
26 ckfred : I remember when PA had only cargo operations at ORD, but this was back when the 747 was brand new. People would drive to ORD, just to see a 747 parke
27 TWA1985 : Pan Am flew a 747 from ORD-DTW-LHR starting in April 1985 ... not sure how long it lasted.
28 ericaasen : That would explain the door by E6 that has a Pan Am sticker on it.
29 WA707atMSP : Just to clarify: PA ceded their ORD-LHR rights to TWA in 1975, as part of the PA / TWA route swap, that also included PA ceding PHL-LHR (and many oth
30 28L28L : The 20 Dec. 1975 PA timetable shows ORD-FRA-WAW (SU/TH/SA) and ORD-JFK-FRA (TU). Cheers.
31 747buff : I have a copy of PA's 1989 annual report and in the CEO's letter to shareholders he says ORD-LHR would be "solidly profitable" for PA. I thought this
32 dc863 : PA had scheduled 747 flights from ORD-LHR in 1971/72. Also ORD-Montego Bay by 727-21s.
33 USPIT10L : Interesting, if started, it would've complemented FRAORD, which started in early 1989. Actually, the TWA LHR asset sale was in 1991. The routes start
34 747buff : Oh yeah I forgot about ORD-FRA. FRA made more sense though, considering how much more connection opportunities PA had there (ATH, WAW, SVO/LED, DEL/B
35 USPIT10L : Did Plaskett have any other plans at that time for FRA or LHR? I've often wondered what Bob Gould's operations plan would've looked like full-blown.
36 Post contains images rwessel : Probably a couple of years - I was dating a woman in Detroit in the 85-86 timeframe, and that flight was about the best way to do ORD-DTW, and back,
37 WA707atMSP : AA and TWA signed the contract to transfer ORD-LHR in Dec 1989, the same week AA signed a contract with Texas Air to buy Eastern's routes to Latin Am
38 isitsafenow : Its almost 2011 and there still are jokes about Detroit! safe
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Old PAN Am Gates At ORD posted Thu Sep 19 2002 06:49:32 by UALrampORD
I Saw Pan Am 727 From ORD posted Sat Feb 17 2001 02:47:28 by Big777jet
Pan Am/Qantas In Bali posted Sun Apr 25 2010 22:57:00 by Jackbr
Pan Am Introduction To Jet Service - 1958 Video posted Sun Apr 25 2010 13:54:08 by Mortyman
Soothing Pan Am Flight Video posted Sun Apr 11 2010 00:56:52 by 777way
Pan Am/Braniff Interchange To London posted Mon Apr 5 2010 05:34:44 by Jackbr
Pan Am DC-7C Routes, Late 50s/early 60s posted Mon Mar 29 2010 01:47:49 by Jackbr
PAN Am 707-120 Flights posted Sun Feb 28 2010 09:44:46 by Luisinho
When Did Pan Am Drop Alaska Service? posted Thu Feb 4 2010 09:40:09 by Tango-Bravo
Pan Am's History posted Wed Jan 20 2010 09:29:15 by Stevenjehly
Old PAN Am Gates At ORD posted Thu Sep 19 2002 06:49:32 by UALrampORD
I Saw Pan Am 727 From ORD posted Sat Feb 17 2001 02:47:28 by Big777jet
Travolta's Jet Used For Pan Am Show? posted Sun Feb 26 2012 08:13:13 by contrails15
The Beatles On Pan Am In 1964 posted Thu Feb 9 2012 20:28:00 by doulasc
Did Pan Am Ever Serve Canada Regularly? posted Sat Jan 28 2012 20:41:59 by Rockinflyer
UK TV Doc On Pan Am Tonight BBC4 posted Thu Jan 26 2012 10:57:07 by readytotaxi
AA's 747s At DFW (pre Pan Am Swap) posted Wed Jan 25 2012 17:27:33 by 5MillionMiler
Pan Am Serving Other New York Airports Than JFK. posted Thu Jan 19 2012 19:11:05 by doulasc
Pan Am's Early 1960s Timetables With JET Flights. posted Sat Jan 14 2012 07:28:14 by doulasc
AA's 747s At DFW (pre Pan Am Swap) posted Wed Jan 25 2012 17:27:33 by 5MillionMiler
Pan Am Serving Other New York Airports Than JFK. posted Thu Jan 19 2012 19:11:05 by doulasc
Pan Am's Early 1960s Timetables With JET Flights. posted Sat Jan 14 2012 07:28:14 by doulasc