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Has F9 Repainted ANY E190's?  
User currently offlineazstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 631 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5617 times:

I flew F9 six times in November. 4 of those flights were E170's and 190's. All were either Midwest or Republic generic livery. I didn't see a single Embraer in F9 livery in Denver at any time. Delta managed to repaint 200 + NW planes in less than a year. F9 seems to not be in any hurry to rebrand their 15 E 190's or X number of 170's in over a year. Besides the lone Badger E190, has anyone seen any other Embraers in F9 paint?

[Edited 2010-11-26 13:41:40]

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekingcavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1314 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5582 times:

I know of 2 E190s -


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RAH is no DL. They cannot afford to tie up aircraft in the paint shop. It's expensive and disruptive to a very tight schedule. The aircraft are getting done. Just be patient.

I doubt we'll see any E170s back in the F9 livery. I'm hearing rumors that no E170s wil be in the branded operation by Summer of next year. I know you're asking about the E170s and E190s but I'm hearing all Q400s A318s and E170s will be out of the fleet by next year.



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1751 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5395 times:
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Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 1):
I doubt we'll see any E170s back in the F9 livery. I'm hearing rumors that no E170s wil be in the branded operation by Summer of next year. I know you're asking about the E170s and E190s but I'm hearing all Q400s A318s and E170s will be out of the fleet by next year.

Hard to know because supposedly the ERJ's are not long for the fleet either but 2 or 3 145's have been painted in F9 colors.


User currently offlinekingcavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1314 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5365 times:

Quoting n7371f (Reply 2):
Hard to know because supposedly the ERJ's are not long for the fleet either but 2 or 3 145's have been painted in F9 colors.

True and I was going to mention the ERJs. I'm hearing the number will drop from 13? currently to 6 or 7 by Summer of next year. So, it appears there is a short term future for the small jets. I think they are important to some of the smaller feeder markets from MKE. I say important because I don't think those markets can handle the higher capacity, especially if the next larger equipment type is (or will be) the 99-seat E190. I guess RAH plans on keeping a handful of the ERJ, especially if they are awarded the EAS markets.



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25704 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5363 times:
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Quoting n7371f (Reply 2):
Hard to know because supposedly the ERJ's are not long for the fleet either but 2 or 3 145's have been painted in F9 colors.

I've heard that some (six?) of the ERJ's will remain, but here's three of 'em:


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mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineintheair10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 16 hours ago) and read 4779 times:

161-172 are still in Midwest colors. 173 still looks like an albino bird. 174 and 175 are the only 190s in Frontier colors. They should be changed over by Oct. 2011 but don't hold your breath.

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25704 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 16 hours ago) and read 4694 times:
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With all the new aircraft (A320 and E190) coming in, presumably in Frontier colors when they arrive, plus the 3 x A319 ex-Mexicana, they'll be a whole bunch of critter tails, some old, some new, perhaps.

I have my fingers crossed for two - a return of the swan with cygnets and a return of the frog.


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mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 16 hours ago) and read 4659 times:

Is the theme for the ERJ-145s young/baby animals compared to adult ones on the Airbus? I see a young fox, young raccoon and young bobcat.

User currently offlinemattrockIND From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 19 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 15 hours ago) and read 4570 times:

It wouldn't surprise me if they did use the baby animals on the ERJs. They're thoughtful like that, Frontier's marketing people are.

Noticed over the spring and summer that F9 is using the E190s at will to the West Coast from DEN. Flew a Midwest E190 from DEN to SJC in March, and saw a freshly painted F9 E190 leave SAN early in the morning in July before I boarded a more civilized Airbus for my first leg to DEN.

They're nice planes, very comfortable... even the chop over the Rockies isn't too bad in them.   


User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2379 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 14 hours ago) and read 4542 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 7):
Is the theme for the ERJ-145s young/baby animals compared to adult ones on the Airbus? I see a young fox, young raccoon and young bobcat.

Yes, they are re-using the tails that were on the Q400s.



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineintheair10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4037 times:

Quoting mattrockIND (Reply 8):
Noticed over the spring and summer that F9 is using the E190s at will to the West Coast from DEN. Flew a Midwest E190 from DEN to SJC in March, and saw a freshly painted F9 E190 leave SAN early in the morning in July before I boarded a more civilized Airbus for my first leg to DEN.

Actually, the 190s have more legroom and the aisles are wider, and there's more space under the seats. That, and it's nice not to ride bitch in the middle seat. I'd pick a 190 over the bus for a long haul any day.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7720 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (4 years 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3988 times:

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 3):
True and I was going to mention the ERJs. I'm hearing the number will drop from 13? currently to 6 or 7 by Summer of next year. So, it appears there is a short term future for the small jets. I think they are important to some of the smaller feeder markets from MKE. I say important because I don't think those markets can handle the higher capacity, especially if the next larger equipment type is (or will be) the 99-seat E190. I guess RAH plans on keeping a handful of the ERJ, especially if they are awarded the EAS markets.

I think everything at F9 is up in the air while they wait to see what WN does with MKE after the FL deal goes through. I can imagine F9 wanting every plane they can get to solidify their position if WN closes it...or I can also imagine F9 downsizing the feed network if FL goes away because it loses money and it was only really there to help them compete with FL who basically had no feed network (I know about OO). Anyway, so I can see it going either way.

There's also the question of what happens to places like PHF, CAK, and FNT if FL gets transformed quickly. I can imagine F9 needing planes to replace some of the FL flying.


User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1751 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3967 times:
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Quoting enilria (Reply 11):
or I can also imagine F9 downsizing the feed network if FL goes away because it loses money and it was only really there to help them compete with FL who basically had no feed network

Huh? You're talking about the former Midwest Airlines network which has been up and running that way for years now. Long before AirTran ever landed in MKE.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7720 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3906 times:

Quoting n7371f (Reply 12):
Huh? You're talking about the former Midwest Airlines network which has been up and running that way for years now. Long before AirTran ever landed in MKE.

By feed network I'm talking about the ERJ stations. Yes, and it sucked long before AirTran came along. The feed stuff has habitually lost money. Midwest talked about it all the time before they were bought. I think they kept it against FL because it provided higher yield feed to help fill the airplanes depressed with low fares, but without the fare pressure or two carriers splitting the traffic in markets like LGA/DCA/etc I think they'll find it won't be worth sustaining the losses any more as that feed traffic won't be needed any more. If they are already looking at eliminating the ERJs, as was said earlier in the thread, it makes the decision even easier.

Anyway, this is all speculative because we don't know for sure that WN will abandon the FL MKE hub operation, but most people think they will.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25704 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (4 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3834 times:
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Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
The feed stuff has habitually lost money.

Ummm - not quite all. Some months ago, on one of the investor calls from memory, BB said that at least a couple of them were profitable in their own right. There was comment about it here and Knope2001 might remember.

I assume that is why they are keeping some of the ERJ's, because they won't need six aircraft for the EAS flying, even if they get it.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25704 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (4 years 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3759 times:
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Quoting intheair10 (Reply 5):
They should be changed over by Oct. 2011 but don't hold your breath.

Unsurprisingly, there's been a hiatus because of the reduced fleet (A318's leaving, etc) and the Thanksgiving/Christmas rush, but the latest I heard was a wee bit in advance of that.

Chums in low places say that the next E145 will be very early next year and the plan is to have all the E190's painted by summer 2011 - May or June?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (4 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3713 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 14):
Some months ago, on one of the investor calls from memory, BB said that at least a couple of
them were profitable in their own right. There was comment about it here and Knope2001 might remember.

It's probably worth differentiating between the ex-FRJ cities like SDF and BNA - routes where a 50 seater is probably the right aircraft - and ex-Beech cities - the former are much more likely to be profitable on 50-seaters.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFedExFlyerPHL From United States of America, joined May 2008, 199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3609 times:

Quoting mattrockIND (Reply 8):
Noticed over the spring and summer that F9 is using the E190s at will to the West Coast from DEN. Flew a Midwest E190 from DEN to SJC in March, and saw a freshly painted F9 E190 leave SAN early in the morning in July before I boarded a more civilized Airbus for my first leg to DEN.

After starting out with A319s, the DEN-LGB has gone all EMB-190s as far as I can tell. Out of the ones I've seen, they have all been in Midwest colors, but I'm sure a couple in F9 colors have been here.

Jeff



ABE ATL AUA AUS BHM BOS BUR BWI CLT DFW EWR HOU IAD JAN JAX LAX LGB MEM MCI MCO MDW MGW MSP MSY ORD PHL PIT SJU SNA STL
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25704 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (4 years 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3578 times:
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Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):
It's probably worth differentiating between the ex-FRJ cities like SDF and BNA - routes where a 50 seater is probably the right aircraft - and ex-Beech cities - the former are much more likely to be profitable on 50-seaters.

Mayhap, Cubs, but that's all beyond my ken. I'm working from memory, but in that instance I believe BB cited at least one of the intra-Wisconsin routes and I would be surprised to see any of those routes go.

At the same time, I don't know what effect, if any, the clear success of MSN-DEN has had on MSN-MKE.

I never know about any of this. It's tough for me to see how any ERJ route can be profitable in its own right (for a LCC), but I have no idea how much feed they provide to mainline and how valuable that feed is.

I would be surprised if MKE-STL is independently profitable, and what happens there with the move to bigger aircraft? I assume it is a route that Southwest might keep.

I think the airline is still in s state of flux - that what was true on October 1, 2009, was not necessarily true on October 1, 2010 and because of Southwest/Airtran may be different again on October 1, 2011.

So - not for the first time - I think that Daniel Shurz may have one of the most interesting jobs in airlines.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (4 years 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3560 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 18):
I would be surprised if MKE-STL is independently profitable, and what happens there with the move to bigger aircraft? I assume it is a route that Southwest might keep.

WN will keep it. STL is a focal point of WN's growth right now (though it isn't as obvious as DEN).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25704 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3511 times:
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Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 19):
WN will keep it. STL is a focal point of WN's growth right now (though it isn't as obvious as DEN).

Once again, the best I can say is "probably" but I don't know what Southwest will do, especially with regard to MKE.

Many believe that Southwest will assign the Airtran DCA/LGA slots (ex-MKE) to other stations, or some of them. Okay, they may, but it would be a bit of a gift to Frontier and that doesn't gel with those Southwest supporters who claim that it is Southwest's intention to kick Frontier in the nuts.

There are too many unknowns for me and I think the best thing Frontier can do is go on its merry way and see how it all plays out.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineKGRB From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 721 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3491 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 14):
Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
The feed stuff has habitually lost money.

Ummm - not quite all. Some months ago, on one of the investor calls from memory, BB said that at least a couple of them were profitable in their own right. There was comment about it here and Knope2001 might remember.

I assume that is why they are keeping some of the ERJ's, because they won't need six aircraft for the EAS flying, even if they get it.

  

The legacy Skyway routes won't die, like MSN-MKE, ATW-MKE, and GRB-MKE. From what I've heard, the loads are good in GRB and in ATW, there is little competition (UA and DL are the only other carriers). I would imagine either or both of those scenarios is true for MSN. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe YX has been pretty dominant in AZO, which probably still continues today.

F9 does a lot of statewide advertising in Wisconsin, so obviously their focus is beyond MKE. I can't speak for the rest of the ERJ network, but I'd be shocked if the Wisconsin routes were dismantled.



Δ D E L T A: Keep Climbing
User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2379 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (4 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3464 times:

Quoting KGRB (Reply 21):
The legacy Skyway routes won't die, like MSN-MKE, ATW-MKE, and GRB-MKE. From what I've heard, the loads are good in GRB and in ATW, there is little competition (UA and DL are the only other carriers). I would imagine either or both of those scenarios is true for MSN. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe YX has been pretty dominant in AZO, which probably still continues today.

YX hasn't served AZO in years, do you mean GRR?



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3441 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 20):
Once again, the best I can say is "probably" but I don't know what Southwest will do, especially with regard to MKE.

WN will keep it for STL, not for MKE (or, putting it a different way, they'll keep it even if they drop every or nearly every other FL route).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineKGRB From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 721 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3400 times:

Quoting JBo (Reply 22):
YX hasn't served AZO in years, do you mean GRR?

Yes I do. Thank you for the correction. At least, geographically speaking, I was close.  



Δ D E L T A: Keep Climbing
25 Post contains images JBo : I'm sure our good friend Knope will be here before too long to crunch the numbers for us. Indeed! It's also worth noting that MKG-MKE was always prof
26 n7371f : I think I can help...I listened to the call and have posted on this specific thing at least twice... BB was specifically referring to the intra-state
27 mariner : Thanks, that's the memory jog I needed. I wonder if the clear success of DEN-MSN has affected MSN-MKE in any way, positive or negative. mariner
28 knope2001 : Regarding the profitability of the short-haul RJ feeder markets at Milwaukee, Here’s what Bryan Bedford said back in May: “The small jets that we
29 mariner : All three scenarios suggest a small number of ERJ's (135/145) in the fleet. So if it is true, as I and others have heard, that the ERJ fleet is to be
30 n7371f : I'm pretty certain the E135 leases are short-term and can go back to Continental fairly quickly (minus the one E135 that is owned). These birds prima
31 pilotpip : Bedford has wanted to get rid of 50 seaters years. Also, we just had a captain vacancy in DEN and MCI (both Republic, both 170/190) almost all seats
32 Post contains links azstar : For anyone who thinks this is not important, read Bret Snyder www.crankyflier.com referring to UA/CO merger. "So one of the things Gordon did was ensu
33 FutureFO : The old 170 tails were all adult animals. Lynx had the baby animals. I remember doing alot of god flying on the 170 when we contracted on F9 a few yea
34 mariner : I think most people think it is important. It's just that flying the schedule may be a tad more important. They started painting in the spring, but h
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