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DL JFK-BDL ... 1 Hr. 45 Min?  
User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9235 posts, RR: 26
Posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 10174 times:

Ok, I'm pretty airline savvy, but why exactly is a nonstop from Kennedy Airport to Bradley Airport listed at 1 hour and 45 minutes. It's a 93 mile ride. Is there that much of a ground delay at 10:15 at night?


Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 31
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 10125 times:

Its the block time. Its padded for ground delays at JFK. Flying time is usually no more than 30 minutes. Look at the history logs on Flightaware to get an idea of what its really like.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CHQ6028



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9235 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 10086 times:

i figured it was padded but that's a hell of a pad!

i was looking at christmas flights and came across it and was thinking it was rather strange ORD to JFK and JFK to BDL were taking the same amount of time.

and 9 minutes on the 14th?

whoa.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 10008 times:

Why is there a need for such a flight? Only 93 miles can be driven surely??


Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlinesasd209 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Oct 2007, 640 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9959 times:

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 3):
Why is there a need for such a flight? Only 93 miles can be driven surely??

As someone who resides (usually) in SW CT, I can tell you that indeed it can be driven, my usual is 3 hours on a weekday, BDL to JFK. I will gladly drive 45 min to BDL, catch a flt to JFK and then connect to my destination. Driving from New Haven County, CT to JFK can easily take 2 hours... I'll pay for the convenience of BDL anyday . FYI, It's actually mileage-wise closer for me to get to JFK, but the driving time is easily double that of the farther-distanced BDL. YMMV.


User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9235 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9875 times:

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 3):

that 93 miles can be a big pain in the butt. and that's putting it mildly.

once you get to southern Connecticut, you're quite lucky if you can get down I-95 in a reasonable amount of time between New Haven and Stamford.

once you cross into New York, good luck getting through the Bronx without any delays on the New England Thruway. then when you get to the Throg's Neck Bridge - good luck crossing without much delay. then have fun crossing Long Island, getting to JFK, parking, and getting inside.

a 93 mile trip, could, on a normal day, take you 4 hours especially if you are headed down during rush hour times, and that's *WITHOUT* construction delays, accidents, if anything whips up from mother nature. it's really quite absurd. the above poster says 3 -- and i'd fairly say that's a pretty light assessment.

there are times it would probably be easier, even being in Stamford, to drive back north to Bradley to catch a flight (unless you had the luxury of connecting and flying out of Westchester, in the first place). the NYC delays/LI delays can be a killer.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9875 times:

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 3):
Why is there a need for such a flight? Only 93 miles can be driven surely??

Traffic is one consideration, the other is the relative ease of checking in and clearing security at a smaller airport as opposed to a a rather large one. These sort of feeder flights can make your life a lot easier if you don't particularly enjoy queues.



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9235 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9863 times:

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 6):

i'd love it if jetBlue's BDL expansion was 2 daily or more into JFK.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9828 times:

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 3):
Why is there a need for such a flight? Only 93 miles can be driven surely??

It's also useful for connections from the west coast. I would much rather connect at JFK to get a transcon flight heading east, than flying midcons connecting somewhere like ORD. I used to do that very thing when flying LAX-ALB--connecting from an AA DC-10 to a Shorts 360(?).

If the options at JFK are renting a car at one of the most expensive rental car locations in the U.S. and driving to Hartford in the traffic, vs. waiting a bit for a 10-minute flight blocked at nearly 2 hours? I'll take the flight option every time.

(Not that STL has ever invited me to visit. ::sniff::  )



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9235 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9617 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):

hey, even if JFK to BDL did take 2 hours, circling over New London is always scenic  

visit anytime!



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlinesasd209 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Oct 2007, 640 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9473 times:

Quoting stlgph (Reply 5):
it's really quite absurd. the above poster says 3 -- and i'd fairly say that's a pretty light assessment.

If I allow for construction and driving around the speed limit, 4 hours is a more realistic time. 3 hours is without road work and driving 80MPH when possible, like on parts of I-91 before hitting New Haven or before Bridgeport on I-95.
It really is quite absurd, one would have to experience it first hand to get the real frustration of driving in NY/CT. HPN is really becoming my preferred airport, and it's a shame that the only flights from HVN are to PHL, and are very expensive at that.

[Edited 2010-11-26 17:33:28]

User currently offlineWROORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 915 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9432 times:

BDL is more less half way between Hartford and Springfield, MA and a lot of pax from as far as VT and NH use BDL as well. BDL offers cheap long term parking, fast security lines and almosy no delays, so you can easly zoon to JFK and connect to international flights without all the hassle of JFK. In fact DL used to offer BDL-JFK-CDG on 763 with no change of aircraft.

User currently offlineBMIFlyer From UK - England, joined Feb 2004, 8810 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9400 times:

Thanks guys.  



Filler.....



Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
User currently offlineSlcDeltaRUmd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3095 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8654 times:

I wish that HVN had more service as well.......New Haven is really close to NYC but traffic makes it difficult enough i cant image Florida wouldn't be successful for an airline like Allegiant or Spirit. Southern Connecticut has alot of people i think Allegiant could do great out of there.

User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8269 times:

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 13):
I wish that HVN had more service as well.......New Haven is really close to NYC but traffic makes it difficult enough i cant image Florida wouldn't be successful for an airline like Allegiant or Spirit. Southern Connecticut has alot of people i think Allegiant could do great out of there.

I don't see as much of a case for flights to HVN as I do for BDL. From New Haven, you can always Amtrak it to Newark if you want to avoid the traffic.



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7871 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7968 times:

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 3):
Why is there a need for such a flight? Only 93 miles can be driven surely??

Traffic is one reason. Southern CT during rush hour is a pain but I don't think that is the reason.
A lot of people live north of BDL and the airport serves a catchment area that extends from central MA to southern VT.
If you live north of BDL, the drive to JFK could be very long indeed, making BOS your closest major airport actually, not JFK. The other factor would be connections. I would guess that a lot of the pax on that flight are connecting at JFK.


User currently offlineicna05e From France, joined Feb 2006, 296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7247 times:

The very reason behind the padding of that flight is the existence/abundance of flights like these, which make very little sense in the first place. They clogg up JFK's gates, runways and airspace just to provide a ridiculous short connection. Can't imagine many people fly that route just to go to/ come from NYC!

I think these connections should be provided through train services. Make airports major transmodal centers, and the whole operation would gain a lot in efficiency!


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6988 times:

Even with the train access at airports, there are flights between adjacent metropolitan area airports. e.g. PHL-EWR. From PHL, US also has flights between BWI-PHL and ABE-PHL (no train line, but driveable). I think US provides these so that customers in those regions have the conveniece and book with US, for international flights. CLT doesn't have the same exact international cities served as does PHL.

For DL at JFK, I'm not sure. There is BDL-JFK and also PHL-JFK. Perhaps DL wants to offer a short connection to JFK than only offering pax that want to travel international (or transcon) to the its other gateways: ATL, DTW or MSP.

[Edited 2010-11-27 07:40:54]

User currently offlineRising From United States of America, joined May 2010, 258 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 6966 times:

I read in a major newspaper a few months back (but I cannot for the life of me remember which paper), that JFK was using a new departure sequence to avoid long taxiway delays. Whereas rather than all the airplanes line up in the conga line, planes stay parked at the gate until their turn to depart and then taxi out to the runway. The method did not necessarily reduce departure delays, but it made the delays more bearable as the aircraft stayed at the gate where passengers could use their phones, the restrooms, etc. until take-off time.

Does anyone remember that story? The FAA said it was working so well they wanted to roll it out to other airports. I thought maybe that was having a positive impact on departures from JFK and their notoriously long block times.



If it doesn't make sense, it's because it's not true.
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2848 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6900 times:

Quoting Rising (Reply 18):
Does anyone remember that story?

Yes, especially with the runway reconstruction this year mixed with the 3-hour rule going into effect, they needed a way to have planes push back so that they could crank up, taxi out, and go and not have a huge line. It works...and it doesn't work. If you don't push the plane out, you now occupy gate space that inbound flights need. I have still seen (during IROPS) quite the line for takeoff still. The big impact will be the new departure routes that were mentioned a few weeks ago which should help get more flights out.



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2169 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6558 times:

Quoting icna05e (Reply 16):
Can't imagine many people fly that route just to go to/ come from NYC!

I think these connections should be provided through train services. Make airports major transmodal centers, and the whole operation would gain a lot in efficiency!

Yes, it has to be almost only connections.... however, since there is a hate relationship between this country and efficient and fast trains (or at least the public spending and city planning it involves...), these short flights are a necessary evil. Especially when considering how driving in/out/around NYC is a major pain.



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4199 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6425 times:

Quoting stlgph (Reply 5):
there are times it would probably be easier, even being in Stamford, to drive back north to Bradley to catch a flight (unless you had the luxury of connecting and flying out of Westchester, in the first place). the NYC delays/LI delays can be a killer.

No way - that's ridiculous.
The BDL-JFK flight exists merely for connection purposes, obviously, and it really would only appeal to those living within say 30 miles of the airport.
Take New Haven, for example, a city I know well. Most New Haveners (Havenites?) would probably prefer to use BDL versus JFK but when their Hartford flight involves connecting through JFK, I think any luster is lost. In other words, BDL is very appealing to those along the southern CT shoreline when direct flights are concerned, but to have to connect anywhere (especially JFK, just two hours away by car) makes BDL far less attractive. The drive from New Haven to JFK, for example, is about 2 hours (3-4 during peak traffic times); to BDL, it is probably 75 minutes (figure 2 hours during traffic). Nobody is going to do the latter only to fly through JFK - and this is before price is factored in. BDL flights are often more expensive than the NY airports.

For BDL to grow, it has to offer convenient nonstops the airports in its NYC and BOS neighbors offer far more direct service.

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 14):
I don't see as much of a case for flights to HVN as I do for BDL. From New Haven, you can always Amtrak it to Newark if you want to avoid the traffic.

The train is a royal pain. On the NE corridor, Amtrak is late far more often than any airline and it is not exactly high speed rail, even on the Acela. Add in a 30-45 minute average stopover at Penn Station and the train is even less attractive. Unless their final destination is on the NE corridor, most people in the New Haven area consider flying from BDL and the NY airports, with LGA and JFK being preferable to EWR when driving. There are also numerous limo (basically a bus) services to the airports, with LGA and JFK having the better schedules.

In my opinion, HVN could be a southern Connecticut gold mine but it is stifled by short runways and a huge local opposition to expansion and any sort of growth at the airport. Although parking is plentiful, there is little security and the terminal itself is a joke. US Airways offers just token service to PHL. If the main runway was another 1,500 feet longer, I could see service to ATL, CLT and Florida as a possibility. Perhaps even with a mix of regional and mainline service. But it will never happen. This has been discussed on many other threads...



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1962 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6292 times:

Quoting icna05e (Reply 16):
The very reason behind the padding of that flight is the existence/abundance of flights like these, which make very little sense in the first place. They clogg up JFK's gates, runways and airspace just to provide a ridiculous short connection. Can't imagine many people fly that route just to go to/ come from NYC!

I think these connections should be provided through train services. Make airports major transmodal centers, and the whole operation would gain a lot in efficiency!

As mentioned previously, the vast majority of those customers are connecting on to other destinations in NYC. Nobody is flying that route, just to end up in NYC. Train service just isn't going to happen in the US, especially in the north east. Property values are so high that any rail project would be prohibitively expensive. Plus you have a lot of people that would be against the government funding a project destined to compete with private enterprise. Doubly so when you consider that passenger rail service is a money losing proposition in the US that has to be supported by tax payers.


User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9235 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6243 times:

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 13):

i've thought this, too. the runway is 5600 feet ... John Wayne's i 5700 feet and they make it to Chicago...

Quoting richierich (Reply 21):
No way - that's ridiculous.

way.

i've made it Stamford to Hartford in far far less time than i've made it from Stamford to the Throg's Neck Bridge.

Peak Traffic times are also pretty much 6am to 8pm or more. so the best bet for making it from New Haven to JFK in 2 hours is if your flights leaves at 11 pm. if my CT friends are flying out of JFK, a lot of them just take the train into NYC, then take the LIRR back out.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlinesasd209 From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Oct 2007, 640 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5857 times:

Quoting silentbob (Reply 22):
i've made it Stamford to Hartford in far far less time than i've made it from Stamford to the Throg's Neck Bridge.

Agreed completely. Even from mid-Fairfield county, BDL is just plain faster to get to than JFK...that is a fact more times than not and I can completely attest to that.
Now, obviously if my destination is NYC I will not drive to Windsor Locks just to catch a flight to JFK, I would simply drive or catch Metro-North into the City. I would however drive to BDL if my final destination is elsewhere and gladly connect through JFK...I hate to beat a dead horse here but I can drive from BDR to BDL and be flying @ 10,000' in less time than I can get from Bridgeport to the Whitestone Bridge. Those are just the facts of the matter, from a 20+ year SW CT resident currently based @ JSD (when not overseas).

Now, about HVN.. I remember in my youth seeing United 732 or 733 service to I can't remember where and recently they had CRJ service to CVG for a short time:



Now they have Piedmont Dash8 service to PHL on a regular schedule, but the fares are very high:



The New Haven Register (source of the photo above) did a pretty good article on HVN just last weekend and it is worth the read. The summary is that boardings are up and (hopefully) fares will be going down...
http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2...news/doc4ce0bc120da91963691152.txt


25 Post contains links LoneStarMike : I remember reading an entry on The Cranky Flier about it back in April JFK’s Virtual Slots Help Reduce Lengthy Ground Delays LoneStarMike
26 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : The port authority wants Newburgh to be the reliever for southern and western conn passengers. Everytime I fly out of LGA and JFK I see tons of conn p
27 timz : Delta.com shows it as 1 hr 10 min-- where are you seeing 1-45?
28 Post contains images AeroWesty : (Shhh, Gavin lives in his own little world--best not to disrupt the apple cart. ) Seriously though, he did say "Christmas flights", so if you look at
29 silentbob : Fares won't go down unless there is competition
30 Post contains images stlgph : yep. it's 1:45 around the holidays. fares on average have already dropped at New Haven and the boardings have gone up. they're more "in line" with wh
31 sasd209 : Normally I would agree with your statement, but in the case of HVN as the above poster said and as the news article said, fares actually have gone do
32 Post contains images chopchop767 : I still remember flying to tweed on UA 737 to visit family The hour and ten minute, hour and forty five minute flight time is indicative of JFK's lack
33 sasd209 : Oh man, you've hit on my dream: a return of sched. service to BDR!!! I recall Continental (I believe?) Avro RJ/146 service years ago, and thinking th
34 richierich : Sorry, that is complete bunk. Sure, you may have had a long ride once or twice but there is NO WAY that this is representative of the norm. I lived a
35 danhsail : After being a longtime reader, this is my first time posting. Living around 15miles north of New Haven, and about 40miles south of BDL, I have tried a
36 stlgph : i drive CT highways every day. just ask Teresa LaBarbera. i've said it a few times and i'll say it again, Stamford to Bradley would be a better peak
37 sasd209 : Seriously? You're going to educate me about my travel experiences? SIr, I do not know you but I do know my travel history. Yes, I have made it to JFK
38 stlgph : and on top of all that - i know people in southern Connecticut, New Haven, Bridgeport, etc., who drive to Providence for their flights because they s
39 richierich : We can go on about this all day. I choose not to disagree with you about your personal travel experiences because, as you said, I do not know them. H
40 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : I totally disagree as someone who use to ride Amtrak northeast corridor 2x week at least for years. Delays are much less common that flying on the NE
41 Cubsrule : HPN has what, 15 destinations? How do HPN and BDL "serve similar nonstop routes?"
42 richierich : I know that BDL has quite a few more flight options than BDL but both serve most major eastern hubs and some other nonstop routes. Both airports serv
43 Gman3 : I live in SW CT and I am a flight attedant for United. I drive to work and traffic is not too bad. Some of these horror stories mystify me. The only t
44 spinkid : I live in Northern Fairfield County and all of your arguements are what I go over in my head each time I need to book a trip. Here is where I weigh in
45 Post contains images SlcDeltaRUmd11 : You have to be the most unlucky person on Earth That dosn't mirror my hundreds of Amtrak trips at all. Acela wins alot of BOS/NYC/PHL/BWI/WAS travele
46 Cubsrule : It does, but BDL frequently serves them better. Take Chicago. AA and UA have similar levels of service to each (though UA has many more seats to BDL)
47 Post contains images stlgph : so true, indeed i like Amtrak, too, but sometimes their prices are just outrageous.
48 Post contains images AeroWesty : Pretty soon, and it's going to take more than 1h45m just to read this thread!
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