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IL76 Crash In Karachi  
User currently offlinezainmax From Pakistan, joined Jul 2009, 109 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 20847 times:

An IL76 performing flight from Karachi to Khartoum Sudan crashed after takeoff due to fire in one of its engines and crashed in the cantonment premises of Dalmia Area in KHI.
Crew perished in the crash.


ZAINMAX APPRENTICE MECHANIC - PIA
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemrskyguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 20860 times:

Do you have any links?

RIP to the crew. I hope nobody on the ground was injured or worse.



"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlinecrownvic From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1798 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 20868 times:

I was emailing a friend in Karachi when he heard it and ran outside. It was only blocks from his house ..Weird stuffllll

User currently offlinezainmax From Pakistan, joined Jul 2009, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 20794 times:

Right now rescuers have recovered 2 seriously injured out of 8.
Its the Navy area which is not open for civilians.
IL76 was performing cargo flight#4412 from KHI to KRT.
Crash site is covered in flames yet.
No information about the fatalities/damage on ground.



ZAINMAX APPRENTICE MECHANIC - PIA
User currently offlinebapilot2b From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 927 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 20542 times:

Quoting mrskyguy (Reply 1):
Do you have any links?

Reported as 'Breaking News' at the BBC, no link yet to a story however.



Jason Nicholls - v1images
User currently offlineworldliner From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 20439 times:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wor..._With_Casualties_Feared_After_Fire


Thoughts are with the families



@777Worldliner
User currently offlineflynlr From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 223 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 20427 times:

found a link....
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/11...rashes-pakistan-casualties-feared/



The Right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
User currently offlineNAS738 From Norway, joined Aug 2010, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 20392 times:

Just found this on BBC...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11855448

Seems like, from the report that it crashed in a partially populated area, and that some buildings may have been hit.

May the crew rest in peace! And lets hope no one else was hurt or injured.

Chris


User currently offlinezainmax From Pakistan, joined Jul 2009, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 20290 times:

Injured gave an interview in serious condition.
2 under construction buildings are damaged.



ZAINMAX APPRENTICE MECHANIC - PIA
User currently offlinemrskyguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 20084 times:

Forgive my knowledge of Russian aircraft (except the SSJ), but is the IL-76 underpowered and/or easily overloaded? In the video I've linked below, it appears that this aircraft could benefit from a JATO at HGW.

Video of IL-76 takeoff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If-Puo94pWk
*Please understand that I am linking this video for the purposes of my question only, and in no way intend it to reflect poor taste with regards to the incident which has just occurred. I am aware that the comments of the camera crew could seem in poor taste considering such, so please remember that this was filmed years ago in Australia.

[Edited 2010-11-27 14:21:44]


"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlinesoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 20040 times:

A/C had 31 tons of relief supplies for the Sudan


Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently onlinesovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2519 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 19573 times:
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The Il-76 takeoff vid in Australia was overlaoded

User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4869 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 19388 times:

Quoting zainmax (Thread starter):
An IL76 performing flight from Karachi to Khartoum Sudan crashed after takeoff due to fire in one of its engines and crashed in the cantonment premises of Dalmia Area in KHI.

Zainmaxji, it is common for bystanders to talk about an engine fire in every crash, but is unlikely to cause to be a cause. The commentator on Dunya keeps talking about 'Engine me aag lag gayi' (Fire) but hopefully the CVR and FDR will tell us what happened. Very sad to hear....


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12064 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 17856 times:

I've got this link.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_pakist...Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDY2FyZ29wbGFuZWNy


User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 16495 times:

Since everyone is providing links, here's another one:

http://avherald.com/h?article=433ef657&opt=0



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineViper911 From Russia, joined Oct 2005, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 15253 times:

Quoting mrskyguy (Reply 9):
Forgive my knowledge of Russian aircraft (except the SSJ), but is the IL-76 underpowered and/or easily overloaded? In the video I've linked below, it appears that this aircraft could benefit from a JATO at HGW.

Video of IL-76 takeoff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If-Puo94pWk

Why people always Link the most extreme cases and make assumptions out of it? yes IL-76 is underpowered compared to today aircrafts, but if used properly it shouldn't have any problems, i don't see Russian air force IL-76s stalling/crashing on takeoffs. Every aircraft has it's limits, and when those limits are neglected, the situation can become dangerous. As sovietjet stated the IL-76 in this Australian video was overloaded, what a shock... any other cargo aircraft would behave the same, yes a 747 might take off earlier but that doesn't mean it's safer, it's still overloaded. IL-76 with a correct loading would takeoff without any problems..


back to this topic, RIP to the crew, and    to those on the ground, hope the plane missed the apartments. (A sad reminder of ELAL 1862)


User currently offlineCX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6534 posts, RR: 55
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 14414 times:

What is it with Russian aircraft though? Is it common practice to overload russian aircraft so that they crash when even a single engine fails (My guess is "yes"). I know every multi-aircraft can be safely operated with a single engine failure but why is it always Russian equipment that ends up crashing? If it is such that Russian aircraft are commonly overloaded, when where is the oversight? Why after all these years of the same thing, does it still happen? If there is not enough oversight amongst these carriers then why are the countries not blacklisted more often by the EU or ICAO?

Does anyone know what the performance rules are for Russian built aircraft? Western aircraft have to be designed and operated in most countries to be able to sustain a single engine failure at V1 and clear the runway end by a certain height for dry and wet runways and then sustain a certain climb angle thereafter. Are russian aircraft designed to the same requirements?

Even watching Aeroflot depart Hong Kong with their 767 in summer, they are often so low passing the end of the runway that I wonder to myself whether they would be able to clear the end of the runway by 35ft having sustained an engine failure at V1. My suspicion on those days is that no they would not. Twinjets, even heavy longhaul ones are often fairly high at the end of the runway because they are built to be overpowered on two engines. This is so that when an engine fails and they lose approx 50% of their thrust they can still pass the end of the runway and meet the clearance requirements. When both engines are working, they end up fairly high at the end of the runway compared to a 4 engined plane that only has to cater for 25% loss of thrust with a single engine. To see a twinjet pass the end of the runway at the same height a fully loaded A340-300 would be is worrying. So, are western built aircraft operated to different perforance requirements in Russia or are even the Aeroflot 767s overloaded out of a first-world airport like Hong Kong?


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10365 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13781 times:

If avherald sources are right, its this plane, 4L-GNI:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Stelios Ioannou



User currently offlineTriebwerk From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 13531 times:

   This is awful to hear. I hope those who perished will rest in peace.

User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4947 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 13320 times:

Quoting soups (Reply 10):
A/C had 31 tons of relief supplies for the Sudan

Very sad, and nobody is getting the supplies now.  
Quoting Triebwerk (Reply 18):
This is awful to hear. I hope those who perished will rest in peace.

Yes it is awful. Especially knowing that the airplane was out to bring hope to people that need it. Very sad day.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineKHI747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1614 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 12847 times:

Over the last one year KHI has seen a major surge in IL76 freighter activity.My house in Karachi is near the shores of the Arabian sea and i see low flying IL76 departing all the time on their way to the Gulf or Africa.The screaming sound of a loaded IL76 is absolutely un-mistakeable.

Believe it or not the planes flight path is normally directly over my house.The flying distance from where it happened to where i am is no more then 2-3 minutes.Officials here are saying the pilot heriocally veered the plane deliberately into empty land to avoid slamming houses and buildings.

Lastly here is an amatuer video taken by an eye-witness's cell phone (its been airing on all the news channels here too) and you can see how the ill fated aircraft is already on fire before impact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeFZqvCWv4Q&feature=player_embedded

God bless the souls of the departed and my thoughts and prayers for their families.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6114 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 12339 times:

RIP

Pretty impressive video, the plane looks indeed like it's burning, difficult to say if it's just an engine or more.

About the relief efforts, didn't some Pakistani provinces need them ? Or is the situation good now, where there were floods ?



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinepylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 12121 times:

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 16):
What is it with Russian aircraft though?

Well, CX Flyboy, your "bold" manner of speech suggests that you are aware of details of MD-11F take off crash in Shanghai Pudong a year ago?!

Yes, it is always overloading and/or wrong CG.

Last update: The aircraft was owned by Georgian company "Sunshine Airways".
Had planned check 2 weeks ago. The crew had 18 hour rest.
Birds are rumored to be the cause.

[Edited 2010-11-28 04:08:32]

User currently offlinemusang From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 846 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 11055 times:

Quoting mrskyguy (Reply 9):
Video of IL-76 takeoff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If-Puo94pWk
*Please understand that I am linking this video for the purposes of my question only, and in no way intend it to reflect poor taste with regards to the incident which has just occurred. I am aware that the comments of the camera crew could seem in poor taste considering such, so please remember that this was filmed years ago in Australia.

Not in poor taste at all. I'm not sure its relevant though. In context, the tower controllers' comments were actually pretty funny and added to the entertainment value of the clip.

There are contributors here with much more knowledge on "Soviet era" operating techniques than I, so can someone confirm the notion that there is an SOP for using a reduced take-off thrust and using of all the runway, reducing engine wear and the chances of an engine failure at its most stressed time? That Australian take-off video, although spectacular, may not be as scary as it looks. There are several IL-86 pics showing similar lift-offs over the far end of the runway. Sure, they may all be maxed out, or they may not.

Many operators (not necessarily Soviet types) use "Improved Climb" take-offs, which use a lower thrust setting, but use more runway and higher speeds (typically by 15 knots on a long runway) so as to end up with a better rate of climb over the first few thousand feet of the flight. This technique is a win-win, reducing engine wear, tyre wear, noise and fuel consumption during the initial stages. Are these IL-76s etc. just using an extreme form of this method? Maybe this explains the comments about the SU 767s at HKG?

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 11):
The Il-76 takeoff vid in Australia was overlaoded

How do we know that?

Regards - musang


User currently offlineb707forever From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 10495 times:

From the youtube phone images you can see it was more than an engine flame out from birds, it was clearly burning pretty badly before it hit the ground. RIP to all, very sad.

25 comorin : The amateur video shows the airplane on fire prior to crashing so it does appear to be true.
26 Post contains links Tobias2702 : Does anyone here has an insight into what airline the aircraft involved in this crash belonged to? According to most sources and Wikipedia, it was "Su
27 Post contains links and images Dahlgardo : Those nice sounding Soloviev D-30K engines have had several nasty uncontained failures in the past, this could very well be another case of that. From
28 Severnaya : Remember that the Il-76 and TU-5 actually use different types of the D-30K, namely the D-30KP (Il-76) and D-30KU-154 (TU5M). So comparing above incid
29 sovietjet : I think you answered your own question. As you are talking about a Boeing 767 you can't go and say "what's with all these Russian aircraft". I'm not
30 Numero4 : Very sad, especially since it is the third fatal accident occuring in the Karachi area this year. Not a good period for KHI at all. RIP to the crew. I
31 fanofjets : My thoughts are with the crew and the people in Sudan who so desparately needed the supplies aboard the aircraft. If the pilot intentionally veered to
32 GRIVely : I wonder if the post-crash investigation will confirm the makeup of the cargo? It just seems odd that poverty stricken Pakistan having just sustained
33 cedarjet : Not too sure about this "Russian planes are underpowered / unencumbered by competent loadmasters" business. These guys may not have access to British
34 prebennorholm : I was thinking the same thing, but we can only make our individual guesses. But then we don't know if the flight originated in Karachi, or it just ma
35 sovietjet : The Tu-154 has a nice thrust/max weight ratio. The trend you are noticing is correct, but it is partly because of the design philosophies of the manu
36 JoeCanuck : I suggest creating a new thread, (perhaps in tech ops), to discuss the very interesting topic of Russian/Soviet planes.
37 777way : I heard its leased or charterd from Russia by Georgia's SunWay.
38 Post contains images warden145 : Sorry for veering a bit further off-topic, but given that they were designed around the same time and for similar purposes, how does the 727 compare
39 Viscount724 : 727-200 Advanced with heaviest MTOW option (209,500 lbs, only a few were built with that option) and most powerful JT8D-17R engine option (17,400 lbs
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