Tu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 975 posts, RR: 18 Posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 13429 times:
Came across this video on YouTube of a Cessna citation that crashed at the old Atlantic City airport.
I won't spoil the video for you...just watch. Starts to get interesting from about the middle.
Guess this guy didn't follow the checklist.
26point2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 745 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 13153 times:
This accident is the classic "rich guy with terrible judgment" accident.
A few of the bad decisions he made which I can remember from reading this accident report a year or so ago:
1. Downwind landing. Even ppl guys know this only turns out bad..
2. Jet ops at an airport that does not allow jet ops.
3. Landing runway distance required more than runway available even if he HAD managed to land into the wind.
4. He forgot to shut down the plane before crawling out. Another example this chap's not too cool under pressure.
Nice he got a new plane...not so sure he even qualifies for a license though. Next time someone might get hurt.
Quoting Tu204 (Reply 2): Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 1):
He had an airport diagram which plainly says jet aircraft cannot land at that airport clipped to the pilot's yoke.
You were there?
You didn't have to be there to know that fact. The NTSB report documented that fact:
Additionally, the airport diagram for Bader Field, was observed attached to the pilot's control column after the accident. A notation, which read, "airport closed to jet aircraft" was observed on the diagram.
The runway was a 2,948 foot-long, 100 foot-wide runway.
According to the Cessna 525A Landing Distance Chart, an airplane with a landing weight of 11,400 pounds required 3,000 feet of landing distance, in a no wind situation. With a 10 knot tailwind, the airplane required 3,570 feet of landing distance.
BLUEWHALE18210 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 237 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 12606 times:
At 1540, ATC instructed the pilot to "proceed direct Bader, descend and maintain 1,500 feet. Expect visual approach." The pilot read back the instructions, stating, "thank you, direct Bader, descend to 1,500."
At 1544, ATC informed the pilot that "the airport is 12 o'clock and 4 miles." The pilot responded that he had the airport in sight, and the controller then cleared the pilot for a "visual approach at Bader airport."
It looks like ATC vectored him to AIY while he was filed to ACY? Or some other miscommunication here? He filed to ACY but had AIY chart out? He called inbound to ACY the first time around...
JPS on A300-600RF A319/320 B737-400/800 B757-200F B767-300F CRJ-200/900. Looking to add more.
rfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6845 posts, RR: 29 Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 12272 times:
Quoting BLUEWHALE18210 (Reply 8): It looks like ATC vectored him to AIY while he was filed to ACY? Or some other miscommunication here? He filed to ACY but had AIY chart out? He called inbound to ACY the first time around...
The IFR flight plan was filed to Atlantic City - the NTSB Factual document does not specify which Atlantic City airport. The investigation did not reveal if the pilot knew there were two airports at Atlantic City. I found nothing to indicate the pilot was interviewed by the NTSB or cooperated with the investigation. He was interviewed once by an FAA inspector - apparently by phone.
Some folks question as to why the ATC did not warn the pilot that he was landing at AIY and not ACY - or if the ATC was aware the aircraft was a jet. There is no indication that the IFR flight plan was filed with an FSS. There is no record of a weather brief, or any discussion about the flight with any FAA office.
The pilot was not a US citizen, but was flying legally in the US on his home country license.
The NTSB Probably Cause report cites
"The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows.
The pilot's improper decision to plan a flight to a runway of insufficient length, his improper in-flight decision to land on that inadequate runway with a tailwind, and his failure to obtain the proper touchdown point."
I'm one of several people who became interested in this accident the day it happened over five years ago. The video was posted within 24 hours. There was a lot of speculation about this accident - much of which I believe - but I will not repeat on a public forum because the source of that speculation and my beliefs is no longer available to the public.
Garpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2464 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9608 times:
So, how did that engine start up and spool up again? The report summary says the right throttle lever was bent and in the idle position. And what made it stop again, I presume it drowned, as there appeared to be a lot of water mist/spray forward of the engine.
rfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6845 posts, RR: 29 Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7996 times:
That was one of the many unanswered questions. No where in the NTSB material is it even mentioned, much less addressed.
The speculation from people who know a lot more about details about the technical aspects focused on either (1) a failure of the pilot to complete a proper shutdown, including turning off certain switches, or (2) something shorted when exposed to salt water - which should not happen on this type aircraft.
KHPN From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 149 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3609 times:
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 10): Some folks question as to why the ATC did not warn the pilot that he was landing at AIY and not ACY - or if the ATC was aware the aircraft was a jet. There is no indication that the IFR flight plan was filed with an FSS. There is no record of a weather brief, or any discussion about the flight with any FAA office.
ATC had to have known. Whether specified in the report or not. All ATC radar screens show the plane along with altitude, speed, type aircraft and registration/callsign. assuming they are not squaking 1200, which clearly the pilot must not have been because he was participating in IFR radar service being vectored by ATC.