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ANA CEO - 787 Delays A Great Disappointment   
User currently offlinethediplomat From Ireland, joined Jun 2006, 382 posts, RR: 6
Posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 14859 times:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cb610572-fb1a-11df-b576-00144feab49a.html


The repeated delays affecting Boeing’s 787 Dreamliner are “a great disappointment”, said its first customer, All Nippon Airways, in a fresh sign of pressure on the maker of the world’s most advanced long-haul passenger jet.

Japan’s second-biggest airline by revenues is still unclear about the precise cause of a fire on a 787 test flight earlier this month, and was pressing Boeing to say whether it would result in further delays to the jet, said Shinichiro Ito, ANA chief executive. “We are pushing them to present the detailed cause of the irregularities,” Mr Ito said in an interview with the Financial Times in London. “We are pushing Boeing to present the schedule for the delivery as soon as possible.”


Mr Ito said ANA remained proud to be the launch customer for the 787, and laughed off the idea that the airline might wish it had never ordered the jet. “Never! It’s a dream!” he said. “Of course we have a great disappointment about the delay but our top priority is to have an excellent fleet.”

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 14813 times:

Quoting thediplomat (Thread starter):
Mr Ito said ANA remained proud to be the launch customer for the 787, and laughed off the idea that the airline might wish it had never ordered the jet. “Never! It’s a dream!” he said. “Of course we have a great disappointment about the delay but our top priority is to have an excellent fleet.”

Mr Ito seems a lot calmer than Mr Baker.
It will be very interesting to hear comments about the B787 from Mr Ito a year after EIS ... whenever that will be.
If it's still "a dream!" then all the delays will "soon" be forgotten.


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4705 posts, RR: 38
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 14744 times:
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Quoting Chiad (Reply 1):
If it's still "a dream!" then all the delays will "soon" be forgotten.


Let us hope this will be true, but the "soon" will last for several years until all the delayed planes are being delivered. That will be a task on it's own which is not to be taken lightly.


User currently offlinethediplomat From Ireland, joined Jun 2006, 382 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 14645 times:

Please note I posted the positive and negative parts of the article in order to be balanced.

Quoting Chiad (Reply 1):
Mr Ito seems a lot calmer than Mr Baker.

In Japanese culture an expression of "great dissapointment" is probably a lot stronger than Mr Baker.


User currently offlineChiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 14509 times:

Quoting thediplomat (Reply 3):
In Japanese culture an expression of "great dissapointment" is probably a lot stronger than Mr Baker.

Ah .. so it actually means that Boeing should cut open its belly and twist the blade?
  


User currently offlinePEET7G From Hungary, joined Jan 2007, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 14413 times:

Quoting thediplomat (Reply 3):
In Japanese culture an expression of "great dissapointment" is probably a lot stronger than Mr Baker.

  

Quoting Chiad (Reply 4):

Ah .. so it actually means that Boeing should cut open its belly and twist the blade?

Of course I am not talking about this statement (only about the expression of "great disappointment"), and I have no info on the backstage negotiations, but from my (by the way, pretty huge) experience in Japanese corporate culture...yes



Peet7G
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5408 posts, RR: 30
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 14289 times:

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 5):

Nicely phrased.

Airlines have every right to be frustrated at Boeing. There is no denying that the 787 program has been the victim of repeated intimate relations with canines.

Hopefully, Boeing will soon run out of dogs.



What the...?
User currently offlineparapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1548 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14197 times:

“We are pushing them to present the detailed cause of the irregularities,”

Obviously Boeing know them (they always do).Airlines like shareholdrs should not have to wait until there is a problem AND a fix. Just be honest with the problem.Are they too concerned to make it public to their No1 customer? - I can't believe it's because they can't be bothered. Clearly this gentleman would like to know.Of course he has already asked privately and got no answer.So he is just telling everybody - very publically - that he is "very dissapointed" in general and specificaly still would like to be given an answer and not.. "The Mushroom Syndrome".He has an airline to run he has a right to an answer to the perfectly fair question he asks. However Boeing are at least consistant in their reporting style I guess - he is not alone.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8757 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 14061 times:
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Quoting EPA001 (Reply 2):
Quoting Chiad (Reply 1):
If it's still "a dream!" then all the delays will "soon" be forgotten.


Let us hope this will be true, but the "soon" will last for several years until all the delayed planes are being delivered. That will be a task on it's own which is not to be taken lightly.

LAN was supposed to be the first carrier in the Western Hemisphere to receive the B787-8. This delay is truly disappointing for LAN and its customers since the company was planning on launching its first Boeing 787-816 service next March. LAN was supposed to receive two B787-816s during 2011 and four more B787-816s during 2012. LAN currently has 32 B787s on order. I have no doubt that Boeing will live up to its agreement with LAN, since both LAN and TAM will require more long-haul a/c in the future, (after the pending merger receives approval). Unlike LAN, TAM chose not to order the B787s. However, Boeing will deliver 3 new B767-316ERs to LAN next year, as well as 3 B767-300Fs. During 2012, Boeing will deliver two new B777Fs to LAN Cargo.


User currently offlinethediplomat From Ireland, joined Jun 2006, 382 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 13959 times:

Quoting parapente (Reply 7):
I can't believe it's because they can't be bothered.

Being balanced - Maybe Boeing just don't know how long it will take - hours, weeks or months.


User currently offlineSchorschNG From Germany, joined Sep 2010, 500 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 13922 times:

Quoting Chiad (Reply 1):
Mr Ito seems a lot calmer than Mr Baker.
It will be very interesting to hear comments about the B787 from Mr Ito a year after EIS ... whenever that will be.
If it's still "a dream!" then all the delays will "soon" be forgotten.

Mr Ito is Japanese, which has some "cultural" implications. He wouldn't ruin the credibility of Boeing without a reason, and surely not because he is slightly upset.
Secondly, Japan is strongly involved in the B787 program. So far it seems the Japanese subcontractors are not responsible for the delays (or their problems were smaller than those of others). I guess a negative comment on the B787 would also cause some negative reactions in Japan itself.

Privately Mr Ito might say that the B787 program so far is a huge catastrophe and Boeing's performance is a great disappointment. But that is just speculation.



From a structural standpoint, passengers are the worst possible payload. [Michael Chun-Yung Niu]
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8757 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 13621 times:
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Quoting robffm2 (Reply 13):
Let's keep on track with the ANA CEO comments, as interesting any sideline topics might be.

ANA CEO's comments are being echoed by many other carriers that were scheduled to receive the B787s since 2008! It just so happens that both ANA and LAN will most likely be the only two Boeing customers that will simultaneously take delivery of new B763s, alongside new B787s.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5408 posts, RR: 30
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 13621 times:

Quoting parapente (Reply 7):
Clearly this gentleman would like to know.Of course he has already asked privately and got no answer.So he is just telling everybody - very publically - that he is "very dissapointed" in general and specificaly still would like to be given an answer and not..

This isn't clear at all. He has to answer to his shareholders and his customers. His public remarks seem to me to be more about PR than public negotiations with Boeing. I sounds like he is giving Boeing a public spanking, which they undoubtedly deserve.

We can't know what answers he was specifically given since ANA isn't specifically saying. Most major companies don't do detailed negotiations in public. Nothing in his statement indicates what information was exchanged between ANA and Boeing.



What the...?
User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 12790 times:

Quoting thediplomat (Reply 3):
In Japanese culture an expression of "great dissapointment" is probably a lot stronger than Mr Baker.

That was my first thought too. "Losing face" is a source of great shame in Japan, so the Japanese language has grown to include some very roundabout ways of saying things. Speaking of a "great disappointment" is a serious criticism by Japanese standards.

By the way, the correct way of referring to QR's head (Akbar al-Baker) would be Mr. al-Baker. Same way you wouldn't call Leonardo DiCaprio "Mr. Caprio".



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlinewingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2216 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 12681 times:

Honestly, if I were this guy I would lease a nice little batch of 330's for a 5 year term and simply let my actions speak for themselves. Better yet they should haul McNerney and the CEO's of Alenia and others before a Japanese parliamentary inquiry into gross corporate incompetence, just the way we did with Toyota. Now that would be classic payback.

User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2094 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 12428 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 15):
This isn't clear at all.
Quoting thediplomat (Thread starter):
“We are pushing them to present the detailed cause of the irregularities,”
Quoting thediplomat (Thread starter):
“We are pushing Boeing to present the schedule for the delivery as soon as possible.”

Seems pretty clear. He says pushing them, he is not asking, but pushing. In Japanese culture to push for something is not good. It means that he is not getting answers. It is probably that Boeing cannot give him answers as yet, but the frustration is building, and Boeing need to announce something soon. I hope it is a short extension on deliveries. Mr. Al Baker also showed his frustration in his language.

Lets see what the Boeing die hards say about my friend Shinichiro San after the uproar against Qatar...  


User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2730 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11969 times:

Maybe ANA should just order A350s instead?


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User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4705 posts, RR: 38
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11880 times:
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Quoting KPDX (Reply 19):
Maybe ANA should just order A350s instead?


Maybe for a new order that could be a possibility. But if they would order them now as a replacement for the B787 order they will need to wait much longer to get their hands on A350's. That too has a huge backlog, nearing about 600 copies. And the plane EIS to the first customers is foreseen for the end of 2013, so it will not be a healthy short-term solution.

I am afraid that that the initial B787 customers can only wait, and wait and wait until Boeing can live up to it's promises and to what it is contractually obliged to deliver. As painful this might be for these customers, there are no short term options here.  .


User currently offlineGarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2630 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11534 times:

Ah,. good old fashioned public whipping.
We saw it with the A380, we'll probably see it with the A350, but right now it's Boeing's turn to take some heat.

Good to see a lot of twisting and turning of the quotes here, trying to make something out of nothing and nothing out of something.

Why can't people just take the quotes for what they are instead of having to imply it's is worse, or it's not so bad?



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User currently offlineb707forever From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11071 times:

All of this disappoitment will fade as soon as they start receiving the airplanes, much like the Airbus A380 delays were forgotten as soon as deliveries began and the press jumped on board. A society that has lost patience in allowing professionals to do their job, both for Airbus and Boeing.

Whenever the 787 comes it will come and I have no doubt it's going to be a plane we'll soon get used to.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30622 posts, RR: 84
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10382 times:
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Quoting parapente (Reply 7):
Obviously Boeing know them (they always do).

If Boeing knew what exactly went wrong and how to fix it, they'd have announced it to the public and the customers. They certainly don't benefit from keeping it to themselves and having their customers comment how they and their product sucks in the media.

Ito-san wants an answer because he was planning revenue flight ops with the 787 in four months, and now that is apparently not going to happen so he has to plan around the delays yet again.


User currently offlineNavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1182 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10009 times:

Quoting KPDX (Reply 18):
Maybe ANA should just order A350s instead?

I think with the strong ties between ANA and Boeing that will not happen. ANA will probably get compensated for the delays. If ANA would go to Airbus it would be a blow to the 787 that Boeing can not take. Boeing will go to any extremes to avoid that happening I think.



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User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19416 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9925 times:

Quoting wingman (Reply 16):
Honestly, if I were this guy I would lease a nice little batch of 330's for a 5 year term and simply let my actions speak for themselves. Better yet they should haul McNerney and the CEO's of Alenia and others before a Japanese parliamentary inquiry into gross corporate incompetence, just the way we did with Toyota. Now that would be classic payback.

Oh, now THAT would be a thing to see.

Quoting b707forever (Reply 21):
All of this disappoitment will fade as soon as they start receiving the airplanes, much like the Airbus A380 delays were forgotten as soon as deliveries began and the press jumped on board

Those companies that have not yet received their A380's as promised have not forgotten.


User currently offlinebueb0g From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 642 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9811 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):
All of this disappoitment will fade as soon as they start receiving the airplanes, much like the Airbus A380 delays were forgotten as soon as deliveries began and the press jumped on board

Agreed. It is indeed very dissapointing, all these delays - even though I have no connection whatsoever with the programme I am always saddened when a new 787 delay is announced (You'd have thought I'd be used to them by now!) But of course, once it is in service and delivering on its promise, the likes of Mr. Baker will be singing to the tune of "We always believed in them...."



Roger roger, what's our vector, victor?
User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2176 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9330 times:

Quoting Navigator (Reply 23):
If ANA would go to Airbus it would be a blow to the 787 that Boeing can not take. Boeing will go to any extremes to avoid that happening I think.

I think that if NH ever orders the A350, it will be independently of the 787, as the A350 is bigger anyway (admittedly there will be some overlap between the 787-10 and the A350-8, like there is now between an A333 and a 77E), and is better suited to become a 777 replacement than a 787 direct competitor. And since NH has a large 777 fleet... i'd never say never.

But they are also learning from Boeing with the 787 delays, so if they want the A350, they will probably wait until its production runs in a timely manner, imho. After all, their 777s are still young and many more years of service ahead.



When I doubt... go running!
25 WarpSpeed : "calmer" = more diplomatic? Pick your poison. With the Japanese, politeness tends to cover up true feelings. With Al Baker, Boeing certainly knows wh
26 Stitch : You can comfortably say never. NH have already noted that the domestic 787-9 fleet will have the same seating as the domestic 777-200 fleet as the 78
27 ETinCaribe : i wonder what is more painful: waiting this long or knowing that the plane you are getting is full of re-works which should be make it fun to maintai
28 thediplomat : Very very true You just cant help yourself.
29 Garpd : What? Can't accept that I'm talking sense and not fanboy rhetoric? Airbus got a verbal licking from several A380 customers, especially when they were
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