JoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 6339 posts, RR: 33
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 18477 times:
According to Wiki, they have 3 767-300ER's. How long would it take to crank out a few 767's, if that is what is decided upon? If they decided to just forget about Boeing, when could they expect to get 330's?
It already is in time and in volume. Also there were no cancellations on the A380 program (Airbus put the freighter on ice which made the A380-F orders "go away". No doubt they payed for that) and there already have been quite a number of cancellations on the B787 program. Now Boeing might lose some premium customers which will no doubt hurt very much. Even more maybe on prestige and name then on finances.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 33958 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 16602 times:
Quoting EPA001 (Reply 7): It is remarkable that after Al Baker's comments now other airlines with B787's on order are making public statements on the B787, and all are very negative.
Why is it remarkable? The plane is years late already and getting later by the day.
The days of customers being (privately) happy the plane was late during the GFC are over now that the GFC is over and air travel is picking up again. They need the planes now and instead they have to fumble about trying to renew/extend leases, re-furb aircraft planned for retirement and keep them flying for another half-decade at least to recover the costs of doing so and delay/defer new routes and frequency expansion.
cerecl From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 789 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 15977 times:
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 4): They inherited 3 RR powered 767-300ERs when they took over Yunnan ( ? ) Airlines , if they do order factory fresh examples it will be interesting to see what engine choice they make .
The issue is that 777 is going to be a new type for MU, and they are unlikely to order 767 now that they have plenty of A330s coming in. Unlike CA, they did not switch to 787-9. Their largest plane, the A346s, are quite new, and their A343s aren't exactly old either. I am not sure Boeing would try as hard to win over MU as they did with SQ. At the same time, I am sure Airbus is offering quite a deal on A350s. It will sure be interesting to see how it turns out.
You don't get any higher than "infinite." Boeing has been under a lot of pressure for the last few years. I don't think that increasing it is going to yield any different results.
One reason that airlines have not canceled their orders is because there is very little competition at the level of large airliners. In fact, there are two manufacturers for planes bigger than ~150 seats. In many areas, those manufacturers don't even offer competing products. For example, the 787 really doesn't have any competition. The A330 lacks the performance and has higher fuel burn while the A350 family barely overlaps the 787 family in terms of capacity.
And so if the airlines see a need in their fleets for an aircraft with the 787's performance and efficiency, their only choice is to wait it out.
If another manufacturer, like Bombardier or Embraer, started to encroach on this territory, I think we might see that it would be to the detriment of both A and B if the smaller manufacturer actually were able to deliver its products on time.
So here we are with a 3 year delay and now a number of airlines making noises like the delay will be very much longer. We've heard rumors on this site about anywhere from 3-9 months and, given that 100% of such past rumors were true, I have little reason to disbelieve them today.
CEA ordered these aircraft five years ago. They expected to have them in the air by now. The idea that an airline orders a new airliner and has to wait almost a decade for it is absurd. It seems to me that this is a very different BCA than the one that proudly launched the 777, 73G and 744 all without major hitches.
HiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 925 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 15365 times:
Quoting Aesma (Reply 12): If they like A340s, maybe Boeing has some to sell them ?
That might be an idea you know! Take the A340s from EK and loan them to MU as interim lift.
I think Boeing has to contain this. Looking at the major Chinese carriers, they currently have mainly Airbus widebodies in their fleet (except Air China ). The 787 has been a breakthrough into the Chinese widebody market. They don't want it to turn sour and get shut out of a large market.
Navigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1419 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13489 times:
Quoting JoeCanuck (Thread starter): Has the dam burst leading more to follow suit? What possible replacement planes could Boeing, (or Airbus), deliver before the 787?
The Airbus A330 and the 777 are probably the most efficient replacements. But there may not be enough planes available for the 787 delivery slots that are delayed. Thus expansion at some carriers may be threatened. The way many carriers go is to keep older planes longer than planned.
BoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1935 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12766 times:
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 4):
They inherited 3 RR powered 767-300ERs when they took over Yunnan ( ? ) Airlines , if they do order factory fresh examples it will be interesting to see what engine choice they make .
Well you still cant get RR engines with winglets on the 767 so the decision is either PW or GE
Talking of winglets isn't there a rumour that Airbus may be thinking of refreshing the A330 winglet design? Another couple of hundred km range / ton of cargo / x% fuel burn improvement + lower purchase cost and known reliable product and some may decide that the 787 is not worth waiting for even if they knew when it would arrive.
They negotiated the 767 upgrade with Boeing when ordering 787s. They were the European launch customer for the 787 and placed its first order for six 787s in July 2004.. They did the smart thing (looking back) ordering the new thing but covering their .sses for delays at the same time..
: It would surprise me if most airlines that have ordered the 787 not also have contracts with clauses regarding compensation because of delayed delive