14ccKemiskt From Sweden, joined Nov 2010, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 33671 times:
Given the supposed fuel saving of around 15%, the slow sales of the A320 this year and that Airbus has found the resources to develop the NEO, this should have been a no-brainer.
I'm a bit concerned that they maybe will be straining their resources here, given how much still is to be done on the other three (!) programs. I hope Boeing keeps their heads calm and awaits the response to this before diving into some over-enthusiastic project of their own.
SEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6836 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 33025 times:
Quoting Eaa3 (Reply 2): I wonder whether airlines will accept the A320 update or demand a totally new aircraft as was the case with the A350.
They won't have a choice. They can, of course, buy 737's with the old engines, or wait for Boeing to build its replacement (which this announcement will likely trigger.) Airbus simply does not have the resources to design a completely new plane at this point.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30623 posts, RR: 84
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 32628 times:
Even if the majority of Boeing and Airbus customers wanted a brand new narrowbody family, Boeing and Airbus can't deliver it. Airbus is trying to get the A350 into production and Boeing is trying to get the 787 into service and neither has the resources to launch a new airplane program right now, so mild updates is what customers are going to have to settle for since there is no real competition through the end of the decade, at which point both OEMs will be able to launch new aircraft programs.
frmrCapCadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1710 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 31920 times:
Airbus is going to need a delta of a lot less than $7-8 million to sell an updated 320. And Boeing can counter by saving several billion and just drop their prices a million or two which will make for an even more extravigant delta.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
PanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4118 posts, RR: 90
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 31840 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW COMMUNITY MANAGER
Here is the announcement from Airbus.
Airbus offers new fuel saving engine options for A320 Family
Airbus has decided to offer for its best-selling A320 Family new fuel saving engines as an option. Airlines have the choice between CFM International’s LEAP-X engine and Pratt & Whitney’s PurePower PW1100G engine. Known as the A320neo, this new engine option also incorporates fuel-saving large wing tip devices called Sharklets. Airbus will start deliveries of the A320neo Family in spring 2016.
The A320neo will not only deliver significant fuel savings of up to 15 percent, which represents up to 3,600 tonnes of CO2 savings annually per A320neo. In addition, A320neo customers will benefit from a double-digit reduction in NOx emissions, reduced engine noise, lower operating costs and up to 500nm (950 km) more range or two tonnes more payload.
I'm guessing against the current CFM-56 powered version of the A32x family.
This is about what both engine manufacturers are offering in terms of gain savings against the current generation of narrowboy engines (commonly referred to as the CFM56...).
The engines are what will bring most of the fuel saving figure. Airframe rework will only add a handful of percentage points on the overall efficiency. This is why neither manufacturer wanted to dive head first into a clean sheet design so soon. The game changing engine technology is just not there yet to provide the 25%+ efficiency gain the airlines were claiming. But both the LEAP-X and GTF should provide a pretty good step up in the meantime.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
r2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2585 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 31231 times:
Major announcement indeed. This fixes the Airbus narrowbody strategy for the next 15 years or so. NEO in 2016 and all-new A30X around 2025-27. This also means that the GTF has convince Airbus (remember that all the NEO rumors started after they tested a GTF prototype on their A340-600 test a/c).
I'm surprised Airbus made the move first, but they probably had no choice. They have no resources to launch an all-new program (heck, I have my doubts that they can manage NEO), so it was NEO or nothing. This first move also puts Boeing into an akward position - although they are in a better position in terms of engineering design resources, a 737reengine may not be as competitive, and open-rotor may not be mature enough.
Quoting SR4ever (Reply 11): Till 2012/2013: design & production improvements for the 380-800
2013: EIS 350-900
2013/2014: EIS 330-300 Extra HGW?
2015: EIS 350-800
2015/2016: EIS 350-1000?
2016: EIS 380-900?
2016: EIS 319/320/321 (322?) NEO
...and let's not forget A380 production is still not 100% sorted out (although those would be more production than engineering resources), and that A400M has significant development (and likely redesign) work ahead. All this is going to be tough to manage in parallel.