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Turkish Aviation December 2010  
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4435 posts, RR: 12
Posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17739 times:


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Hello there aviation lovers,
2010 is almost over and 2011 is around the corner.
Thanks to all of you, Turkish Aviation threads have been going on for four years now. Many things have changed over the years and many still the same (as my username suggests, wink, wink...)
Over the last four years,
The beautiful logo jet left years ago but now replaced with many more logo jets for TK
A310s gone but now TK has 77Ws, 333s, 332Fs
AnadoluJet came into the picture, TK started to fly to places like YYZ, IAD and soon SGN, CAN.
SAW became a dominant player, now serving 11mil pax.

Still no decision on the 787/350. Can we expect a decision this year?

On other news;
-Looks like Istanbul is getting a 3rd airport, in Silivri. It will have at least 60 mil pax capacity and cost $5bil. It doesn't say that it will replace IST or SAW.
-Some of the latest TK route news; JFK going 2 x daily 77W next summer, PEK, ICN going daily, CAN, SGN starting 3 x weekly this month.
-4th TK 77W is about to join the fleet. They are named after old Turkish palaces; "Dolmabahce", "Beylerbeyi", "Yildiz", "Rumeli"
-Number 3 and 4 of the 330-300s also set to join soon.
-More TK news; next year TK goes to Naples, Valencia and Malaga
-Turkuaz airlines stopped flying domestic routes
-Gazipasa airport in Alanya to get its runway extended from 1825 to 2000 meters.
-Sunexpress just got its 25th 738 and returning 757s to start a German subsidiary to fly to Turkey and Eqypt.
-When will the rest of the TK fleet will get a new paint job?

Please join us with your news, views, rumors and photos.

****Here is that thread from Dec. 2006
Turkish Aviation Thread Dec.2006 (by TK787 Dec 3 2006 in Civil Aviation)

184 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25372 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 17707 times:

Happy Aralik (December) to everyone. Seems this year has indeed truly gone by fast.


A follow ups from November:
TK773ER asked when service to Vietnam starts. The date is December 29th via BKK.

In other news the Dacca route for TK also starts this month, and as part of the Bangladesh bilateral Biman will be allowed to operate its London services via IST versus DXB currently.

For the new airport at Sivirli, yes its a bit far, but apparently that is what people felt about when Yesilkoy for many years also. Apparently as late as the 1970s, much of the area around IST was still forest and rather quiet. So with time I am sure the entire coastline from the Bosphorus all the way to Sivirli will be full of communities as Istanbul continues to grow.

I think everyone and TK especially should be very exited at the prospects of a new airport as it would truly allow TK and Turkey to establish a mega hub without physical constraints experienced today.
Istanbul could truly then become a global transportation hub rivaling the Dubai, Singapore's and even the big European hubs like Frankfurt, Paris.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4435 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 17581 times:

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
-Number 3 and 4 of the 330-300s also set to join soon.

Skyliner shows both -JNJ, -JNK delivered on Nov.30th. (KAPADOKYA and SANLIURFA)
I wonder what will happen to the current "SanliUrfa" TC-JRB, an A321.


User currently offlinethereandback From Turkey, joined Aug 2005, 699 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 17555 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
So with time I am sure the entire coastline from the Bosphorus all the way to Sivirli will be full of communities as Istanbul continues to grow.

I hope that they concentrate growth in the city instead of expand out towards the ends of the province. Otherwise in 30-40 years the new airport could be in the same situation as Ataturk airport is in today. There are lots of districts in Istanbul that have substandard housing that could be redeveloped.

I'm interested to see what the come up with to get people to and from the new airport quickly. I know the HSR and Marmaray are under construction but if someone on the asian side wants to drive there it could take well over 2 hours. On mass transit it might be even longer with the time it takes to stop at each station.

I was reading the wikileaks cables on Turkey the other night and I found on the government possibly having a secret islamic agenda and it talked about Turkish Airlines saying, "As another often-cited example of small but telling changes, critics note that employees at the Health Ministry and state-owned Turkish Airlines reported being questioned about their
religious beliefs and attitudes toward the Koran, an unprecedented practice."

Can any TK employees past or present confirm or deny this?

Full text can be read here: http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/cable/2007/03/07ANKARA648.html

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
When will the rest of the TK fleet will get a new paint job?

I can't wait to see what the A319 looks like with the large titles on the fuselage. Its probably going to take up the whole body... Not sure if that will look good or not.


User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 17526 times:

Hi everyone , I just want to let you know that i flied TK for the first time 2 weeks ago YYZ-IST-CAI and return (A340/A321) and i was impressed with both TK and IST .
Although we had a delay between IST and CAI ( it was Hajj time , so a lot of delays along the board not only our flight) but IST is a very nice Airport , with lots of sitting areas , nice shops and a very nice food court , it is far better than CDG and MXP .
I was also impressed by The Airline itself , nice and clean Planes , excellent food service , but i believe they can do a little better job with customer service .
All in all , a very good experience , keep it up TK and good luck with your massive expansion  



A346,A343,A342,A332,A333,A310,A300,AB6,A319,A320,A321,B741,B744,B777,B767,B732,B735,B727,B707,B757,MD80,F-70,E-170,B738
User currently offlineslideslope From Turkey, joined Nov 2010, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 17440 times:

My first post here but I've been a big fan of the Turkish Aviation thread - lots of informed and intelligent discussion, far better than any Turkish language forums I know. And it's a great honour to see a couple of real 'flesh and blood' pilots from Turkey among the regular contributors...

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
-Looks like Istanbul is getting a 3rd airport, in Silivri. It will have at least 60 mil pax capacity and cost $5bil. It doesn't say that it will replace IST or SAW.

There has been precious little public consultation about this 3rd airport decision so it's good to see it debated here. Aren't we perhaps too biased towards the airline perspective here? I mean, a giant six-runway hub with rows of TK superjumbos carrying transit px all over the world is a nice vision. But an airport in Silivri will not be serving Istanbul. This city is important because it's a huge market of 15 million people and a massive tourism and business destination. Dubai and Frankfurt have only become important airports because they are hubs in the first place. What a lousy destination Istanbul will be - and what a misery for Istanbul residents too - if you have to spend 3-4 hours in the traffic to get downtown from the main airport. No one's announced plans for a high-speed rail link yet. And which points in Istanbul would it go to if a rail link was threaded through the city? It all reminds me of the Istanbul Olympic stadium - a state-of-the-art stadium built out of town but connected with one road so everyone had to queue for hours to get in and again to get out. But my main objection is that even if the Silivri airport was put out to tender tomorrow it wouldn't likely be operating before 2020 and TK's need for capacity is a bit more pressing than that. What about building an additional terminal at IST on the south side of the aiport on the ex-military land? And when TK outgrows that too, it should look at becoming a two-hub airline (AYT more likely than ESB). The Lufthansa model fits TK and its market far better than the EK or SQ model...

TK's growth plans are really exciting and great for Turkey but a new airport should be built firstly for the convenience of the users, not just the airlines...


User currently offlinetcm From Turkey, joined Jul 2010, 584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 17412 times:

The success or failure of the new airport will heavily depend on the transportation to/from the city centre. Seoul's Incheon is also about 40 miles to the city centre and is one of the best airports I used so far. A fast train link to Sirekci, like the transrapid in Shanghai Pudong, and a express road connection is a must. I would involve reputable international transportation consultancy firms for such a gigantic project.

User currently offlinetozbek From Turkey, joined Jul 2005, 121 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 17351 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Last week there was an interesting news about the SkyTeam. Published in Air Transport Intelligence News, SkyTeam negotiating for Saudi Arabian partner. In the news Air France chief Pierre-Henri Gourgeon, said Turkey is on the GDP list but Gourgeon admits: "For the time being we don't have any clue [about a Turkish partner] but we're working on it anyway."

Which airline could be a partner of SkyTeam from Turkey? Maybe Pegasus?


User currently offlinetcm From Turkey, joined Jul 2010, 584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 17341 times:

Quoting tozbek (Reply 7):
Which airline could be a partner of SkyTeam from Turkey? Maybe Pegasus?

I don't know whether a LCC would fit in with SkyTeam. But I would love to see either Atlas or Pegasus join Skyteam or OneWorld and become a serious alternative to TK on international travel.


User currently offlinewing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1571 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 17233 times:

Quoting slideslope (Reply 5):
My first post here but I've been a big fan of the Turkish Aviation thread - lots of informed and intelligent discussion, far better than any Turkish language forums I know. And it's a great honour to see a couple of real 'flesh and blood' pilots from Turkey among the regular contributors...

Welcome to the club.I personally agree with your observation about the high quality level of discussions here,thats why I am here,adding myself from these contributors and trying to give something to them.Unfortunately its not always possible to reach to this level of respect and intelligence in Turkish speaking forums.

I have been a member and a contributor in this site for more than 10 years,had some very interesting days but most interesting happened last month.I was flying with a brand new FO and we were chatting to know each other while the passengers were boarding,and it turns out that he was a frequent visitor of these forum way before he decided to become a pilot and immediately recognised my name from my nickname here(surprise   ) .So I flew with an A.Netter for the first time as a crew,it was really fun. I always hoping to fly with Aydın after he upgraded to Captain in A320,hopefully we will have chance to do it in near future.


As far as the 3rd airport news,the newspapars report that it would cost up to 5 billion $ with its connecting roads so I think there will be some serious connections for the airport.What I would like to see is that THY should plan ahead to have its own terminal area to handle that amount of airplanes(the plan was to have 250 + aircraft in 2023) like other big carriers have in their hubs.



Widen your world
User currently offlinestylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 2975 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 17213 times:

Quoting tozbek (Reply 7):

Which airline could be a partner of SkyTeam from Turkey? Maybe Pegasus?

since XQ is part of TK and LH definately not an option, I don't see Atlas nor Onur in a position to join any alliance at the moment.
the only option would be Pegasus. they are building up a nice and strong base in SAW, renewing a unified 738 fleet and they are already in a partnership with Air Berlin.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25372 posts, RR: 49
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 17140 times:

Quoting tcm (Reply 8):
But I would love to see either Atlas or Pegasus join Skyteam or OneWorld and become a serious alternative to TK on international travel.

If things had not changed at Atlasjet, they might be close to OW today. Back when they had a robust domestic network one needs to remember British Airways reached out to them and signed an interline agreement, was one of the very early e-ticketing agreement, and was even talking about joint frequent flyer partnership.


I see TK has more information on Comfort Class on its website.
http://www.turkishairlines.com/en-INT/comfortclass/

I see in GDS Comfort Class is now bookable under what appears to be class code of "A" while Comfort Class award ticket are booked under "Z" class.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMeCe From Turkey, joined Oct 2009, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 17019 times:

Hi all,

We are officially in winter now, except strong wind there is no sign of winter here  

TK gets new birds like rain I can capture two of new 330 in front of hangars. I am very hapy growth of TK but worry about space issue. Yesterday 5 widebody try to fit in front of hangars with additional narrow bodies. Situation is very serious I think, incoming planes waiting parking place minutes long.

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/4545/12012010451.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


User currently offlinebahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1790 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 16929 times:

Quoting tozbek (Reply 7):
Which airline could be a partner of SkyTeam from Turkey? Maybe Pegasus?

There isn't any other airline in Turkey that can fill that gap.. As LAXIntl mentioned, Atlas could have been a good competitor but there is no room for any airline to to have a #2 spot in Turkish aviation market. The powers to be won't let it happen and TK is still a monopoly.

Quoting slideslope (Reply 5):
I mean, a giant six-runway hub with rows of TK superjumbos carrying transit px all over the world is a nice vision. But an airport in Silivri will not be serving Istanbul. This city is important because it's a huge market of 15 million people and a massive tourism and business destination

Welcome to A.net slideslope.. Very interesting points and i completely agree with you on this.



Earthbound misfit I
User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 732 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 16904 times:

Greeting A-netters! This is my first post ... even though I have been a lurker for a few years now. Have always been a fan of THY and the Turkish aviation pages. But now that it has become directly relevant - I decided to join in the fun!  

I am very excited about THY starting the service to Dhaka, Bangladesh (DAC). I could only find few blog or preliminary posts but no official press release about the service starting this month. Thanks to some of you for keeping the news coming in. I tried last night to book through the THY website and was successfully able to book tickets. A random search this Dec/Jan shows about $1500 for a JFK-IST-DAC round-trip ... and $1200 for April 2010. I can't wait to travel this route next spring/summer ... with a stopover in Istanbul of course! 

For now, it is routing via Karachi ... but I'm hopeful that Dhaka with its strong west-bound traffic will be able to secure its own direct flight in the near future. Unfortunately I had already bought QR tickets for Dec 23 ... on JFK-DOH-DAC. Just 3 days ... and I could have been on the inaugural flight!!!


User currently offlinetcm From Turkey, joined Jul 2010, 584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 16848 times:

Quoting bahadir (Reply 13):
There isn't any other airline in Turkey that can fill that gap.. As LAXIntl mentioned, Atlas could have been a good competitor but there is no room for any airline to to have a #2 spot in Turkish aviation market. The powers to be won't let it happen and TK is still a monopoly.

The Turkish Aviation market is expanding and eventually there will be more serious competition. I won't be surprised if a foreign investor will eye Pegasus or Atlas in the near future. Pegasus might also follow the path of Air Berlin in Germany by starting to think about long-hauls/C-Class. As much as TK and the Turkish Government will hate to see this happen, money is a important motivator.  


User currently offlinetcm From Turkey, joined Jul 2010, 584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 16825 times:

Quoting ASA (Reply 14):
with a stopover in Istanbul of course! 

Welcome and have fun flying TK  

Finally some official announcement regarding the fate of F and the leased 77Ws.

''What will happen to the 777s with first class cabins?

Unless otherwise stated, the four 777s currently housing first class cabins are scheduled to be removed from our fleet as of September 2011.''

link: http://www.turkishairlines.com/en-INT/comfortclass/faq.aspx


User currently offlinecuban8 From Kiribati, joined Sep 2009, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 16628 times:

The future of Istanbul and its airport problems is one of the most fascinating and interesting projects which will hopefully take place during this decade. I'm surprised that there is not too much discussion about this in the media and on the forum so far.

The decision that will be made is not only important for Istanbul itself as the biggest and one of the most important cultural, economical and touristic metropols in Europe, but also for the future of TK and the reputation of Turkey. Considering a "RyanAir" airport like Silivri is a shame to Istanbul and Turkey IMHO. What a heck, lets consider Tekirdag and Izmit for the future of Istanbul's airport shortage as well.

Quoting slideslope (Reply 5):
What about building an additional terminal at IST on the south side of the aiport on the ex-military land?

I suggested this in a post a few month ago, but obviously it is still used by the military and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. I would even go as far as letting Atatürk airport to be an all TK airport and move all other carriers to Sabiha Gökcen like EK is planning to do when Jebel Ali airport is completed. Besides pissing off a lot of competitors, this would not be viable in the long run but could be a temporary solution while building a new airport.

Quoting thereandback (Reply 3):
I hope that they concentrate growth in the city instead of expand out towards the ends of the province. Otherwise in 30-40 years the new airport could be in the same situation as Ataturk airport is in today. There are lots of districts in Istanbul that have substandard housing that could be redeveloped.

I completely agree with you. The only thing you can do today though is to develop Atatürk airport in the extention of RWY23 towards the Marmara Sea. Unfortunately, not too many "gecekundu" or substandard housing in that direction.

If I were to run the project of building a new airport in Istanbul, I can only see one solution. To make a close copy of Osaka International Airport. Build up an artificial island out of Bakirköy Marina in the Marmara Sea.

Positive things about a project like this would be:

- Airport location. Istanbul as a city will grow, but the financial, cultural and touristic center will remain where they are today.
- Traffic situation. No speed-rail, metro or additional free-ways to be constructed for several miles without encounting all the problems that may arise by historical findings on the way.
- Noise abatement. Take off, approach and landing will be performed over the Marmara reducing noise in populated areas.
- Expansion. Istanbul may grow in 50 years time. Marmara will definately be available for further expansion.
- Connetcions. With speed-boats, it would be easy to connect to the airport from the Asian side of Istanbul and from the city of Bursa adding another 2 million more potential travellers.
- Publicity. These big projects attract a lot of attention world wide and can only be good for Istanbul and Turkey.
- Landmark. Something for the Turkish people and country to be proud of as of the bridges over the Bosphorus for example.

Negative sides of the project would be:

- Expensive. Definately not cheap but in my opinion worth it for a soon to become 20 million people city.
- Possible Operational Limitation. Installation of Low Visibility Approaches may be difficult and therefore limit the use of the airport during foggy days.
- Location. Possibly too close to Atatürk airport (and Sabiha Gökcen airport) making radar operations too complicated.
- Enviroment. Possible impact on the nature in and around the Marmara Sea.
- Earthquakes. Should not be a problem if constructed according to what they did in Osaka International.

Any opinions? Am I reasoning clearly or am I just a yabanci who had too much raki in the afternoon?   


User currently offlinetcm From Turkey, joined Jul 2010, 584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 16549 times:

Quoting cuban8 (Reply 17):
Expensive. Definately not cheap but in my opinion worth it for a soon to become 20 million people city.

The cost of Kansai Airport (Osaka) reached 20 Billion USD. One of the most expensive Airport/Building projects in history. The total cost of HKG was also in that region. Kansai used to sink a few centimeters each year.

Also building a hub in the middle of residential areas such as Yesilkoy and Florya will be controversial.

As I mentioned before, Seouls Incehon is about 40 miles from the city centre, similar to Silivri. Incheon replaced Gimpo Airport and has a rail link that links these two airports.

IMHO, Incehon is a test case example for the new hub in Istanbul.


User currently offlinetcm From Turkey, joined Jul 2010, 584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 16351 times:

Apperantly a 77W operating flight TK60 to BKK had to be evacuated just before take off due to a fire indication in the hold. It seems that the crew handled the situation well and nobody was seriously hurt.

[Edited 2010-12-03 23:49:48]

User currently offlinepilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 16254 times:

Yeah I heard this da well! Will find out the details.


The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlinegokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 16178 times:

Quoting cuban8 (Reply 17):
If I were to run the project of building a new airport in Istanbul, I can only see one solution. To make a close copy of Osaka International Airport. Build up an artificial island out of Bakirköy Marina in the Marmara Sea

I actually suggested this on a previous thread, although it won't be done, I think it will be a trophy project that will not only keep the airport closer to the city, but also a project that will boost the ego of the current govt. they love that 
Quoting tcm (Reply 18):
The cost of Kansai Airport (Osaka) reached 20 Billion USD. One of the most expensive Airport/Building projects in history. The total cost of HKG was also in that region. Kansai used to sink a few centimeters each year.

I'm not in construction or a developer, but I don't think it will cost as much in Turkey, plus with 'yap-islet-devret" lots of the cost could be absorbed by the private sector (namely TAV), now tell me if a metropol like Istanbul, with a population close to 20 mil in few years can't justify this project.

Having said that can KIX be a mega-hub? or is it space limited always?
These are all decisions that need to be made, I'm not 100% against Silivri, but I think its just way too far, and we all know now that the airport is going there the residential development will follow. They need to block way more land than they are actually looking to build because Turkish mentality will put high rise residences right on the edge 
Also what would happen to IST?

Quoting tcm (Reply 19):
Apperantly a 77W operating flight TK60 to BKK had to be evacuated just before take off due to a fire indication in the hold. It seems that the crew handled the situation well and nobody was seriously hurt.

Saw pictures with slides deployed, did they really have to do that? Was it just a fire indicator or actual smoke, I'm really surprised they deployed the slides, would love to hear more about this.



Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
User currently offlinetcm From Turkey, joined Jul 2010, 584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 16157 times:

The Aviation Herald report is as follows:

''A THY Turkish Airlines Boeing 777-300, registration TC-JJC performing flight TK-60 (scheduled departure Dec 3rd) from Istanbul Ataturk (Turkey) to Bangkok (Thailand) with 284 passengers and 14 crew, had lined up for departure on runway 17L and was waiting for takeoff clearance when the crew received a fire indication for the rear cargo hold and a burning smell developed in the rear of the cabin. The crew initiated an evacuation via slides, during which 30 passengers received minor injuries. Responding emergency services found no trace of fire, heat or smoke.

The runway was closed for about 90 minutes.

A replacement Boeing 777-300 registration TC-JJD reached Bangkok with a delay of 8:15 hours.''

link: http://avherald.com/h?article=4342dd3e&opt=0


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4435 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 16132 times:

-About Silivri airport;
Back in the day, during my early college years, our class was given a semester long project how to develop Silivri. (can't remember why Silivri) I remember Silivri local authority taking us by bus to local hot spots on the weekends, eating lots of Kofte, taking pics. This was more than 25 years ago and us students couldn't come up with anything tangible. We tried Convention center ideas, hotels with beach access.... never thought of a third airport. Silly kids!!

An airport around Gazitepe, Silivri will be 60km east of IST. I imagine it will be built north of the major highway. I highly doubt that they will spend $20B or so on an airport in the middle of Marmara Sea. No Way! I still don't know how they can build one in Silivri for $5B. Just look at the new JED renderings for a 30mil capacity that will cost $7B.

This is what I know;
-TK is here to stay as the major player both domestic and international and soon 1/2 of its pax could be transfer pax. So TK doesn't care if the new airport is built in Sofia.
-Besides rail and highway, a seaport at the Marmara sea that connects to a monorail to terminals could ease the traffic immensely. This would be a 5 km or so monorail, light rail that can transport pax from Kadikoy, Eminonu, Karakoy, Bakirkoy, Bostanci or even Yalova seaports.
-I wouldn't be surprised if there is a market for a SAW-Silivri turbo prop service with 50 seaters when the new airport opens. Baha, do you want to start a company???

What I would like to know;
-What will happen to IST and SAW?
-Cargo logically will move to the 3rd airport, that would give IST capacity to grow also, even with LCCs, which could affect SAW??
-What happens till the 3rd airport opens? (5-10 years??) A big mess at IST.


User currently offlinetcm From Turkey, joined Jul 2010, 584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 16107 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 23):
-What will happen to IST and SAW?

IST could serve Low Cost Carriers only. Another option is to make IST domestic only, ike Gimpo in S.Korea. Link Silivri and IST with a high speed rail link. The third option, to make the new airport TK only and keep foreign carriers at IST, following the Jebel Ali example in Dubai. The last option is a gamble though.

I think SAW can still serve Istanbul as a secondary airport, like Gatwick.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 23):
-What happens till the 3rd airport opens? (5-10 years??) A big mess at IST.

I think this is the most pressing issue that causes most concern.


25 radiopolitic : I'm really curious to see how IST/SAW manages to cope with the rapid expansion of TK. With the many frequencies and new routes that have been announce
26 Post contains images pilotaydin : Hi there, i can tell you firmly with the inside info i have, that evacuating was a good decision. There usually won't be smoke or flames visible from
27 thereandback : Even though its plagued with delays the Marmaray tunnel under the Bosporus along with upgraded commuter rail stations and trains is scheduled to be f
28 TK787 : First of all, congrats to TK to have a very good load on that plane that night. Second, I am glad everyone is safe, some injured during evac which is
29 LAXintl : For the IST and SAW debate post a new airport, I also believe the current IST should be demolished. Its simply too close to the city these days, and t
30 pilotaydin : It will be my pleasure to explain to you. The first thing for us, in investigating is to be able to filter out the hear say freom the truth. The trut
31 Post contains images pilotaydin : honey is dripping from your mouth hahhah translate that directly. Thanks wing, I hope to join you for my 100 hours of initial command time, 17 months
32 TK787 : Thanks for taking the time to explain it all in detail. Besides TK and Boeing, SHGM takes place in this investigation? Flight data recorder and cockp
33 Post contains links tcm : Well one fellow FlyerTalker with the nickname britinva79 was on the TK60 flight. This is what he had to say: ''The staff onboard were quite profession
34 Post contains images IndianicWorld : Even in 2006 IST seemed to be bursting at the seems when I flew in there. Great international terminal, but the runways seemed very congested and gate
35 LAXintl : As I said prior I just don’t see the current IST remaining after the inauguration of the new airport. If for no other reason that THY will not want
36 IndianicWorld : I agree that its certainly llikely that TK will want that, but if IST is closed the size, and subsequently the costs, will rise significantly. Its all
37 Post contains links stylo777 : does anybody know who Ahmet Tunaguer is? I'm really sad about his article http://www.airturkhaber.com/yazar.asp?yaziID=1961 instead of writing positiv
38 pilotaydin : vay vay vay....adamin yazdiklarina bak, SEREFSIZ, of course people will be injured, the cabin crew did a great job and everyone got out...there is no
39 tcm : Why don't you talk with TK Media Relations, Basin Musavirligi, Ali Genc. TK should do some proper Corporate Communication to address such issues. IMH
40 Post contains links umit : how about a blog ? I can get the name say something like ''insider view'' or ''pilots view'' or whatever you think appropriate ? Then ,you inseders ,
41 robcol99 : I flew TC-JNH to IST-BRU last week. Contrary to a lot of comments, I found the interior to be very nice. (talking about Y-class obviously) The only ne
42 TK787 : -He is wrong in saying noone injured at US Hudson accident. From Wikipedia: There were five serious injuries,[67] one of which was a deep laceration
43 Post contains links and images thereandback : New Sivas airport my turkish is not perfect but shouldn't this say havalimani or havaalani? render:
44 Post contains images stylo777 : plus: if people care more about their belonging no wonder why people get injuried during evacuation. in the flight training center I did the evacutio
45 tcm : Blaming passengers for their injuries is a dangerous path to follow. It is the crews responsibility to make sure that evacuation is done accordingly
46 TK787 : Thanks for the info. Nice to hear that the interiors are getting positive remarks. Pitch on the other hand will be a big issue. IST-BRU distance is n
47 Post contains links TK787 : From the TK website: -KIX goes from 4 to 5 x weekly March 27 -SIN-CGK goes daily March 27 -PVG goes daily Dec 20 http://www.turkishairlines.com/tr-TR.
48 wing : Dear friends, I looked at the mentioned website,the interesting thing is it was only read about 101 times, if we exclude all of us who looked to that
49 TK787 : Thanks for a very insightful post. Happy landings.
50 Post contains links TK787 : "RUMELI" delivery flight today; http://flightaware.com/live/flight/THY6900
51 Post contains links and images bahadir : Some of Rumeli's crew was in Renton visiting our flight school. We showed them what real flying is in a Cessna 172 They were like kids in a candy stor
52 Post contains images cmoltay : - Turkish Privatization Administration is has announced today they're looking for a consultant to help setting the privatization strategy for the rema
53 Post contains links TK787 : I have sent an email as usual to TK. It could have been mine or someone else... Now the number of 340s has been corrected: http://www.turkishairlines
54 tcm : Your perseverance is really commendable. What I find irritating is the lack of seat maps for the different a/c variants. The seat map they loaded for
55 tk1244 : According to several websites, SunExpress will launch a German subsidiary in May 2011. The new company will operate three aircraft, of which one will
56 cuban8 : As far as I know, German SunExpress has already started its operation out of Germany with bases in Frankfurt, Stuttgart and Cologne. You may be right
57 aviators99 : According to the AVHerald article, no source of fire or smoke was detected on the 77W last week. Can someone tell me if that 77W is back in service?
58 TK787 : Hello everyone, I was away for some time and looks like I didn't miss much. I had the pleasure of flying in perfect conditions last couple of days LGA
59 Post contains links TK787 : http://www.flickr.com/photos/38619847@N05/5251020270/ Number 5 for TK 77W fleet, TC-JJI on its first flight.
60 mbg : Merhaba, With the ongoing discussion about the new Silivri airport and the possibility of approach traffic interfering with IST, I was wondering if th
61 LAXintl : THY callsign is "Turkish". Used to be "Turk-Air" For the heavy, there are ICAO designated categories different aircraft models fall in based in their
62 TK787 : The distance between IST and SAW is 26 miles. That seems like like a whole lot more room than what we have here in NYC; LGA-JFK 11 miles LGA-EWR 16 m
63 wing : The "airspace" is a three dimentional thing.It doesnt matter if the airports are close to each other,or even if the runways are in the same airport,t
64 Post contains images stylo777 : I'm wondering if the next one will have the registration TC-JJJ?!?! wing, true words and I totally agree with you. it takes hours to build up a nice
65 TurkishWings : Does anyone know if the new 333s have the same business seats as the new 777s?
66 tcm : You are certainly right in saying that TK has bigger issues than a seat map on its web page. I wish that was the only problem. However, many traveler
67 tcm : yes same seats. 2-2-2 configuration on the 333s and 2-3-2 on the new 773ERs. Still can't believe they opted for 2-3-2[Edited 2010-12-12 04:09:28]
68 Northstar80 : I love TK, however I sometimes think 4 star is even too much for TK. Still, in every flight, I see during landings/takeoffs, seats reclined, window bl
69 Post contains links TK787 : Wing, Thanks for the inside info as usual. Like I said on my reply 58, I took 4 flights this week with US, UA, AA and B6. US is probably known as the
70 tcm : I certainly hope TK will not take US carriers as a benchmark.
71 wing : Friends, We should consider the fact there is lots of improvements in THY's case.Trying to create a"brand" is really hard.But the hardest is to keep t
72 TK787 : Until TK can beat those minimum expectations at "EVERY" flight, a benchmark is a benchmark no matter where it comes from. To make my point, I bought
73 tcm : I totally agree with you. I think its time for TK to digest its recent growth and work on improving its current service. After all these things need
74 Post contains images bahadir : How about people roaming around the cabin during push back and taxi to the active on my latest IST-JFK flight ? This was happening in front of the po
75 tcm : I would fly TK over DL anyday. TK's benchmark for quality should not be US carriers or most European carriers because they are industry laggards. Ben
76 MeCe : I know people exactly you point. People begging for a job, 6 moths later they did not like it. But not only workers management has to be adressed to
77 TK787 : Hi Bahadir, The new 777s will slowly replace the Jet 777s by next June until then it is a crap shoot. Also AFAIK you can't get advance seat reservati
78 TK787 : I totally agree. TK should be open to the idea of hiring middle and upper management from benchmark carriers like LH/LX, SQ, EK, QR.
79 stylo777 : hiring is one thing, the willingness of those people to move to TK another, well, let's say "challenge"...
80 Post contains links TK787 : http://www.flickr.com/photos/38619847@N05/5255298716/ Cool touch and go video of TAF 737 WedgeTail at PAE. "17 on board" ?
81 Post contains links TK787 : I don't get this; After naming the new 77Ws Dolmabahce, Beylerbeyi, Yildiz and Rumeli TC-JJI named "EGE" ??? http://paineairport.com/kpae3390.htm
82 Post contains images tcm : Well I guess no more "palace" names left By the way if you are flying DL for the miles, you are forgiven
83 TK787 : I was really waiting for "Hidiv", "Ciragan", "AnadoluHisari" also "Topkapi" should have been kept for the 77W fleet instead of the 333 fleet. After t
84 tcm : "Hidiv" and "Ciragan" may be but "Ishak Pasa Sarayi" and "Ibrahim Pasa Sarayi" might be considered to long and complicated. UA's Mileage Plus is cert
85 TurkishSky : I think using the word 'Sarayi' is not necessary as in the case of Dolmabahce and Beylerbeyi. 'Ishakpasa' is shorter and 'Ibrahimpasa' is not that mu
86 Post contains images bahadir : Yeah, but did you get DO&CO sis kebap on DL flight? The example that you gave me will never work on TK until our good friends Wing and Kilotaydin
87 Northstar80 : I find it that on my last 10-15 TK flights, the food was getting consistently worse (of course still much better than the half-wich Austrian served o
88 Post contains images TurkishWings : Please tell me this is a "typo"
89 tcm : I guess you are right. However I would still name the new birds after cities/provinces as they are more abundant. Well both TK and Austrian are cater
90 Post contains links tcm : Well this is interesting news. TK to operate 2 of the Borajet ATRs. http://www.airporthaber.com/ve-imzalar-atildi--29214h.html
91 Post contains images stylo777 : this is really some GREAT news! finally... and hopefully it will last longer than only a few months... Laxintl, your opinion please
92 tk1244 : So will we see two ATR72 operating in Turkish Airlines livery?
93 tcm : yes, the two ATRs to be repainted in TK livery.
94 bahadir : Borajet deal is what should have been at the first place.. I have been waiting to see this thing since 1994 I proposed it. I am taking Borajet from my
95 Post contains images LAXintl : About time someone listen to me and Bahadir. Of course I wonder how well they will manage to develop this concept. With over 100 mainline jets, TK by
96 Post contains images tk1244 : Thanks for your reply This is great to hear Is there a future for more ATR72 or other turboprops operated by Turkish Airlines? Many airports are expa
97 Post contains links and images LAXintl : Here is the press release about Kobe becoming brand ambassador for THY. Legendary Athlete Kobe Bryant Named New Global Brand Ambassador for Turkish Ai
98 TurkishSky : from TK's website: 'as of December of 20nd, 2010' they really need to pay attention to this and act...
99 Post contains links thediplomat : Aer Lingus will launch scheduled services between Dublin and Izmir on May 4th. I assume this will be a weekend A320 service, although frequency and ai
100 777way : Smart Wings to start Antalya from Prague on 19 March according to airline route.
101 Post contains links LIPZ : Turkish plans to fly to Sydney via Jakarta late in 2011 http://www.todayszaman.com/news-2296...lights-to-sydney-late-in-2011.html
102 HB-IWC : It's quite surprising that TK will, as per the article, first launch nonstop flights to Jakarta, because current loads to Jakarta do not seem to warr
103 stylo777 : very interesting indeed... can the A330-200 do the IST-CGK legs? if so, in my eyes a perfect aircraft to start with...
104 Steelyman : Actually the problem is to find any availability on the IST-CGK segment, as availability is shared with IST-SIN. If IST-SYD would be shared with IST-
105 Northstar80 : I hope I am wrong, but I think this will be a suicide.. From almost any point in the world (europe, asia, africa, us) you can get to Sydney with 1 st
106 wing : Although ATR's flying to some places where I fly would definetely cause me less stomach aches and less grey hair in winter time(which is very good thi
107 IndianicWorld : Fully agree with your view here. I see no value in TK trying this. It seems more a prestige thing , rather than an economically sensible one. If it c
108 tcm : Well may be this might end up like the ATL tag.
109 Post contains images tk1244 : Totally agree with you Why couldn't regional jets be operate effectively in Turkey? Atlasjet replaced its CRJ with A319 and Fly air retired its ERJ14
110 stylo777 : many reasons, but following two are the main ones: - performance, especially during takeoff and landing from most airports in Turkey. the elevation a
111 Post contains links TK787 : http://www.turkishairlines.com/tr-TR...orporate/about_us/fleet/index.aspx Another halfass job from TK fleet web page; They changed "only the tails" (w
112 Northstar80 : although the photoshop is primary school quality, I insist that the planes be painted in that cool gray color in real life too..
113 stylo777 : the two ATR72 are going to be operated for Anadolujet, quite interesting indeed... the flights are loaded into GDS SAW - CKZ (Canakkale) TK/## 7218 SA
114 Post contains images tk1244 : thanks for the information Will there be more ATR72 flight, because I think one ATR can easily do this job?! Quite surprise to hear that Anadolujet i
115 stylo777 : yes, just loaded into the GDS are also: Istanbul SAW - Isparta ISE TK/## 7216 SAW 18:00 ISE 19:15 AT7 0 1--4567 01:15 - - 23 Dec 26 Mar Mon 20 Dec TK
116 tk1244 : According to several websites: Ankara ESB - Canakkale CKZ ESB 22:45 CKZ 00:10 AT7 0 1234567 CKZ 07:00 ESB 08:20 AT7 0 1234567
117 tk1244 : since airberlin is expected to attain full membership of oneworld by 2012, Pegasus Airlines would be an option for OneWorld Alliance. Can't see any T
118 LAXintl : EasyJet will commence service from London Gatwick to Izmir on May 14th 2011. Twice weekly Tue/Sat with fares as low as £31.99 each-way. Tue LGW-ADB 1
119 tcm : Does TK have any Asian crew apart from the few Japanese FAs that were let go due to labour union membership in 2009??? Thanks in advance.
120 Post contains images wing : Its bad allright,I looked at the pictures and it hurt my eyes. Airline companies doesnt really care about what the people think about small or big ai
121 Post contains links tcm : A lot to digest from Mr.Kotil after his return from NZ. http://www.haber7.com/haber/20101218...stu-karli-THY-5-yildiza-ucuyor.php (Turkish)
122 TK787 : A whole lot to digest, to put it mildly. TK's Kotil talking about increasing the Atlantic flights to 20-30 a day. By next summer 2 x JFK, ORD and alt
123 Turkish350XWB : I don't think that this is possible. Stopover time in LAX is about 2,5 hours, in GRU 5 hours. And to keep connectivity, these cannot be extended furt
124 tcm : Thanks for the English summary. I was too lazy to go through it all. Looks like we will keep talking about the never ending TK expansion.
125 TurkishWings : In addition to the above, he says MNL will also start soon... I think this is the first time MNL is mentioned... And from the way he talks about it,
126 Post contains links and images MeCe : Newest 777, TC-JJH made her first flight today. I forget to ask route and loads, but last week new T7s made domestic flights to ESB, ADB and AYT. In m
127 tk1244 : Yes of course, the airline companies don't care much about it, but our people are 'inatci'. I mostly book flights for friends and family and most of
128 TK787 : We have heard about MNL in the recent past, you must have missed it. Again, I have no idea if these tag-ons will work out for places like MNL. I know
129 stylo777 : I guess, crew familirazation is also an issue, such short flights are good to train new people. yesterday, this particular aircraft did IST-FRA-IST r
130 Post contains images MeCe : As you think as airframe and life limited parts there is no logic fly it IST-ESB. They can fly to DXB for example, nice answer for EK
131 Post contains images wing : Thats correct.The pilots need to compleate certain amount of sectors (legs) (I think it is 40) when they first transition a new type,considering the
132 Post contains links tcm : See the link below for the ATR in AnadoluJet livery: http://www.airporthaber.com/pervaneli-anadolujet-29347h.html
133 stylo777 : yes you are right and I'm fully aware of that, however, I'm still suprised, because TK Technic is known for good and fast paintwork. just have a look
134 robcol99 : Aydin/wing hi, I have a question. What is the company limit on crosswind component for approaches for the A310? (Although it's not your type, I guess
135 wing : 16 kts is not out of limit in any of transport category aircraft.The reason of Casablanca incident is different which I can not discuss here at the mo
136 Post contains images bahadir : This is a part that Wing and I disagreed for the longest time : There is a place for regional jets in Turkish fleet. I am fully aware of engine out re
137 Post contains images wing : No we don't disagree,we already have ERJ,and CRJ's in THY fleet even now.We use their engines as our APU's Seriously I Know you fly ERJ series,maybe
138 Post contains links tcm : BBC's Fast Track programme visited the TK catering complex of DO&CO in IST. Interesting to see how the food is prepared. Video starts after commer
139 Post contains links tcm : TK CEO seems to like the ATRs. According to the following news article, if the new ATR operations prove to be a success, TK might consider to purchase
140 Post contains images pilotaydin : Hello there the crosswinds for landing, are as follows for all fleets BRAKING ACTION WIND LIMIT GOOD 25 MEDIUM/GOOD 20 MEDIUM 15 MEDIUM/POOR 10 POOR
141 Post contains links TK787 : 5th owned TK 77W, TK-JJI "Ege", is about to land at IST; http://flightaware.com/live/flight/THY6900
142 Post contains links TK787 : Here is the pic of the new AnadoluJet ATRs: http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/viewphoto.main?LC=&picid=6895 Delivery flight departure of "Ege": http
143 Post contains images TurkishWings : What happened to the palace names? They sure did not run out
144 Post contains images bahadir : Wing, I would be more than glad to provide that information to you. We are the largest operator of 170/175/190 fleet in the world. We operate out of
145 stylo777 : ...and it would be great, if you guys can share the infos here on the forum!
146 LAXintl : Effective March 14th, service to Shiraz Iran will commence. 4X weekly TK884 IST-SYZ 2145-0345+1 B738 TK885 SYZ-IST 0445-0605 B738
147 Post contains links TK787 : Here is another great pic of "EGE: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40168621@N07/5270289869/ Besides Palace names, I'd really like something along the li
148 Post contains images tk1244 : Ah thanks for the information. Hope to see more if wings can provide some specifications about these Turkish airport Would be a good idea I was alway
149 stylo777 : question regarding arrival and departure procedures at IST: can anybody tell me all the various take-off and landing runway combinations? for instance
150 Post contains links TK787 : Weather conditions are pretty bad here in NYC. It was nice to track TK1 doing all these circles over Long Island with fellow a.net member TK350 over S
151 gokmengs : Hey man tell me about it was booked on DL 72 today, got a call late last night while at an xmas party that I'm now re-booked on the next day (27th) p
152 TK787 : Sorry to hear that. Looking out the window it is pretty miserable and it is expected for NYC winters to be like this. Hope she can get on standby and
153 MilesDependent : Hi This seems like a good spot for this question. I am travelling to Turkey in April 2011 and want to book some domestic TK flights. I notice that dom
154 TK787 : You are right, TK doesn't operate 318s. It has 5 total 319s, 1 is operated for Bosnian operator, 2 of them are ex-Atlas 319s, it could be one of them
155 Post contains images MilesDependent : I agree one would expect ASR to be 320/321. I was quite shocked to see 318 next to the flight, and I got briefly excited until I checked and saw no 3
156 fodar : It looks like TK has decided to offer a premium-economy product that is significantly better than any of the potential competition (BA, VS, AF and SK
157 TK787 : You are correct the fares are expensive. Looks like by next summer JNB-IST-JFK will be on TK's brand new 330-300 and 77Ws respectively, so the produc
158 Post contains links planemannyc : Photos of first TK flight to Dhaka (DAC), Bangladesh: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1228093&page=41 Taken by avid photographer Ka
159 LAXintl : Its a bit of a long story, however TK has not been able to get many domestic code-share segments from United (eg at IAD they only have a single ORD f
160 fodar : Amadeus and turkishairlines.com are quoting me USD 3936.70 (on a base fare of $3595.00). It would depend on who will be allowed to continue to land a
161 tcm : Is TK yield management working effectively??? I flew LX J IST-ZRH-BCN at a 50% discount compared to TK. Also choosen LX for my upcoming IST-ZRH-IST tr
162 stylo777 : I don't know which flight you are talking about in particular but the TK1907 IST-ZRH has a very good overall SLF (don't know about the yield though).
163 MeCe : Today JFK will have two birds with two hours separation. Second one will depart in minutes, hope weather conditions goes better and get all passagers
164 tcm : I am talking about J loads.
165 tcm : By the way, TK and TAI have signed an agreement to start-up a cabin components manufacturing company. I guess it will be interesting to see the impact
166 TK787 : Well the weather here in NYC is good today, sunny, just above freezing and 15-25mph winds. I can see TK1 and TK7 (IAD) over Manchester with TK1977(DU
167 LAXintl : Maybe you need to contact THY directly. At the moment they are advertising $2099 for Y+, and $3800 r/t (+ taxes) for C-class on the LAX route. I'm lo
168 wing : I was flying TK1977 to Dublin yesterday(TC-JMJ A321),Flying at FL360,TK 1 ,B777 passed under us at FL340.Than few minutes later we started our descen
169 MeCe : I missed ; there are two birds stuck at JFK yesterday. One has 33 hours delay other one has 7 hours. The planes send yesterday have already 9 hours d
170 thereandback : They just showed a video from onboard one of the new TK 777s on the news taken by a passenger saying they were stuck on board the plane for seven hou
171 wingedtaurus : I heard some rumours that TK was planning to launch IST-MEX in the near future? Anybody has information?. Cheers!
172 tcm : CX, EK and many other carriers facing major problems at JFK. After Europe it has been the U.S. East Coast having extreme weather conditions. Turkey on
173 LAXintl : Well in all fairness THY has itself to partially to blame for the experience of its passengers at JFK. On Tuesday, TK opted to essentially operate 3 f
174 Post contains links tcm : TGS expanding and showing off their winter preperations: Link: http://www.airporthaber.com/thy-buyu...ce-tgs-personel-alacak-29527h.html (Turkish)
175 TK787 : Cool. Incredible! We hear on the news that 1/3 of the US air traffic is somehow connected the the NYC airports. Just imagine all three were closed, o
176 TK787 : Looking at flightaware.com today's TK2 is delayed for 9 hours 20 mins as of now.
177 LAXintl : Law is applicable to US airlines, on domestic flights only. Crew rest. Scheduled out at 205am.
178 TK787 : Thanks, I think this law should be extended to foreign carriers on US soil also. I wonder if Gokmengs made it Istanbul yet?
179 gokmengs : Hey man thanks for checking, typing this from Istanbul but I have to say what an adventure, I've been rebooked 6 times in 3 days,but the platinum sta
180 TK787 : Great news for you two, Enjoy the warmer weather there and have a happy new year.
181 kaitak : Hope you enjoyed your trip to my hometown! Incidentally, does anyone know when the 350/787 order is due? I thought it had been expected by the end of
182 Post contains images gokmengs : Thanks my friend happy new year to you and all contributors of this thread. We have been waiting for it for years I thought it was due last summer an
183 Post contains links tcm : The new A333s to operate 3 of the 14 weekly BCN services according to the initial Summer 2011 European Network changes. Also CDG will get to see TKs n
184 Post contains links TK787 : Please continue here: Turkish Aviation January 2011 (by TK787 Dec 31 2010 in Civil Aviation)
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