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AFA Releases 86 Page Complaint Vs Delta  
User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1751 posts, RR: 12
Posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4808 times:
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Happy reading! AFA released its long-awaited complaint against Delta claiming interference with the recent AFA election. A lot of it seems petty to me but I'm sure others will see it differently.

I do find it odd that it's okay for the union and/or individual members to rip a company and its leaders to shreds, but find it inherently wrong for a company to simply remind its workers to vote.

http://www.deltaafa.org/AFA_Supplemental_Interference_Brief.pdf

And here is Delta's first response to the AFA complaint.

http://www.deltaafa.org/DOCS/DL_NMB_Ext_Request.pdf

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4638 times:

I think at this stage in the game, it's safe to say that this will be a looong, hard fight. I don't see a resolution anytime soon. How much time does the NMB have (if there's any requirement) after DL files their official response to make a decision? If history shows anything, how long are you guys guessing?


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3408 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4336 times:

That's actually a very good question. I have no idea if there is a specified time limit for an investigation to run it's course. I can tell you that the Sim Tech investigation (and revote) took 5 months-and that was for a group with all of ~90 people in it. I sincerely hope the timeframe for this (or the IAM one, should it occur) are not proportional.


"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4317 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4115 times:

If AFA really cared about the best interests of the Flight Attendants as they say, they would respect the wishes of the Delta Flight Attendants, who have had their say and have said they don't want to be unionized. The fact that AFA is pulling this tells me that the Delta Flight Attendants are pawns in some bigger thing that AFA wants, which I can't figure out what, and if they have another election, a lot of Delta people may be so turned off that AFA will get even less support next time.

User currently offlineKingAir200 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1630 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4034 times:

I understand why the AFA is doing this, to a point, but I don't see what it's going to solve. Neither them nor the IAM, should they file, will get any more yes votes than they did before. Everyone just wants to move on.

[Edited 2010-12-03 11:36:40]


Hey Swifty
User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3408 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4021 times:

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 5):
Neither them nor the IAM, should they file, will get any more yes votes than they did before. Everyone just wants to move on.

With the AFA, the election was close enough that the outcome could possibly be different the 2nd time around. With the IAM, I can't imagine a whole lot of people voting differently than they did the first time (to be sure, there would be some that do- I just don't know that it would be that high of percentage). The key in that vote would be getting the 2,511 people that couldn't be bothered last time to participate in a revote. Even if the end run is still "no," at least it would be a more definitive mandate.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1190 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3931 times:

The joke that has become the AFA, they will get even fewer votes if a re-vote is ruled.
Many, many are fed up! Just ask those who voted yes. They are quite disgusted
with the AFA. They have become a very SAD, desperate disorganization.


User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7438 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3843 times:
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Quoting cokepopper (Reply 6):

The joke that has become the AFA, they will get even fewer votes if a re-vote is ruled.
Many, many are fed up! Just ask those who voted yes. They are quite disgusted
with the AFA. They have become a very SAD, desperate disorganization.

I'm one of them. I was on the fence for awhile and decided to vote for them at that point. But now, I'm more in favor of moving forward. There's much that bothers me about the way AFA conducted themselves during the process, and much of that has lead me to reverse my previous stance. I think that most of AFA is led by a group of incompetent people who think that they're lawyers all of a sudden just because they were elected to a "post", a chair at the roundtable of rubes. They're no match for mgmt who were all attornies. I trust neither of them, AFA or mgmt, but I seriously think that AFA could do some major damage by taking us down a path for certain destruction, like what AMFA did to the NWA mechanics. The more that I hear from AFA, the less I like.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3843 times:

Quoting n7371f (Thread starter):
I do find it odd that it's okay for the union and/or individual members to rip a company and its leaders to shreds, but find it inherently wrong for a company to simply remind its workers to vote.

This is why...

"Parties are any labor organization(s) or individual(s) seeking to represent a carrier’s employees and any incumbent representative of the carrier’s employees. Carriers are not parties under Section 2, Ninth, however, they are under a statutory obligation to provide information and documentation to the NMB in representation matters."

The election is among the employees and the labor organization, not among the employees and the airline.


User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3831 times:

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 5):
With the AFA, the election was close enough that the outcome could possibly be different the 2nd time around.

That is correct. When the carrier sends out mailers with SEVERAL mistakes on them (all in favor of non-union Delta of course) and the election results are 49.2% in FAVOR of union representation and 50.8% AGAINST union representation...everything needs to be looked at.

Promises of raises are also illegal, and Delta did just that.

Delta management violated employees rights during the Sim Techs election, is anyone really surprised they did the same thing for the other work groups?

Btw: The NMB voted unanimously against Delta management in the Sim Techs election, including the anti-union Republican member.


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3780 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 9):
Delta management violated employees rights during the Sim Techs election, is anyone really surprised they did the same thing for the other work groups?

And the re-vote was the same as the original, if not more decisive.

Quoting OOer (Reply 9):
Promises of raises are also illegal, and Delta did just that.

That raise was promised, even before the merger.

Quoting OOer (Reply 9):
That is correct. When the carrier sends out mailers with SEVERAL mistakes on them (all in favor of non-union Delta of course) and the election results are 49.2% in FAVOR of union representation and 50.8% AGAINST union representation...everything needs to be looked at.

If those mailers are anything like the ones that the IAM has posted on Facebook, there are several factual errors on those, too. There's every reason to believe that the mailers the AFA sent out had mistakes, too.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1801 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3688 times:

AFA is desperate. Now that DL has halted the automatic dues witholding that is a HUGE chunk of their income. They are going for broke at OUR expense.

LOTS of former Yes voters are disgusted (this one included) and will vote No next time. It's time to move on.

Also, the NMB can refuse to accept the claim of interference and that is the end of the whole thing. My guesstimate is that is what will ocur. They do not have the money or time to wade through 86 pages of stuff. DL never called me at home once. I received repeated calls from AFA and they even wanted to know HOW I voted! If anything, AFA was in violation.



Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3614 times:

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 11):
Also, the NMB can refuse to accept the claim of interference and that is the end of the whole thing.

Yes they could, but only if AFA fails to provide a Prima Facie case of interference. If AFA does that, then they have to investigate.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 11):
My guesstimate is that is what will ocur.

Based on what?

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 11):
DL never called me at home once.

Last I checked there were 20,000 f/a's...not just 1.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 11):
I received repeated calls from AFA and they even wanted to know HOW I voted! If anything, AFA was in violation.

It's perfectly legal for one of your coworkers to ask you how you voted. It's not legal for management to ask the same question.


User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3408 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3442 times:

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 11):
They do not have the money or time to wade through 86 pages of stuff.

The NMB?

I'm pretty sure they do.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17829 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3393 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 9):
Promises of raises are also illegal, and Delta did just that.

Can the union promise raises? Do you have an exmaple?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3241 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
Can the union promise raises? Do you have an exmaple?

Read thru the 86 page document. It explains everything you need to know.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17829 posts, RR: 46
Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3230 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 15):
Read thru the 86 page document. It explains everything you need to know.

As much as I'd *love* to take time to read 86 pages of union propaganda, could you just answer the question instead? At least the second one?

[Edited 2010-12-03 14:45:34]


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinedeltaguy767 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 667 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3192 times:

If I were a betting man, I would wager the outcome will remain the same, that the DL F/A's will end up non-union and despite their 86 page treatise of why DL Management is the scourge of the Earth, the AFA will end up with egg on their faces at the end of this process. I skimmed through the 86 pages, and didn't find anything that DL cannot quite easily refute in their rebuttal. If the AFA is going to force a revote out of the NMB, they'll have to do better than that. And it stands to reason that the AFA's actions aren't going to win over any 'No' votes to 'Yes' votes, but only have the potential to drive 'Yes' votes to 'No' votes.

As a disclaimer, I have no affiliation with DL management or the AFA other than acquaintances who are DL F/A's.

Cheers from BDL,   
DeltaGuy767



A Good Landing is one you walk away from!
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1507 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3116 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
As much as I'd *love* to take time to read 86 pages of union propaganda, could you just answer the question instead? At least the second one?

1. Click the link to the 86 page brief.
2. Hit Ctrl+F
3. Type "raise"
4. Read the paragraphs in which the word has been used.

Simple enough.


User currently offlineNZ1 From Australia, joined May 2004, 2277 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3101 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Please see here for another thread already going on this topic: AFA Files Interference Vs. Delta (by alitalia744 Nov 24 2010 in Civil Aviation)

Thanks
NZ1


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