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International Help To Israel's Huge Forest Fire  
User currently offlineAn225 From Israel, joined May 2005, 223 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 5 months 5 days ago) and read 4277 times:

Hi all,
Just wanted to update the current situation of the aviation side of the huge forest fire raging on Mount Carmel near Haifa, Israel. Since yesterday (02/12/2010) a huge forest fire is raging in the forests of Mount Carmel, with catastrophic outcomes to both nature and people. Currently the toll is 3000 hectares of forest (est, around 1.5 milion trees), 45 persons died, Kibutz Beit Oren was burnt to the ground, 12,000 persons from nearby towns (Haifa, Tiray Ha'Carmel) and a few villages were evacuated. Not mentioning the animals not being able to escape.
Current estimations are that the fire will be contained and maybe suppressed till Friday evening.

On the aviation side, Israel currently doesn't have much of fire bombing capabilities, since the discontinued IAF CH-53 water bucket operations. This is the case due to airframe fatigue and decree to focus on military operations only. These machines were very helpful during the then-huge fire in the same area in 1989. I remember it happened when I was a student in the IAF Technical School, located in Haifa Airport. These machines were working day and night with parking area next to our dormitories. Currently, the fire brigades are using Chim Nir agricultural dusters which bombard limited amount of fire retardant.

Yesterday, Chim Nir's airplanes (Turbo Thrush) arrived to the area two hours after the fire broke and worked till dusk which is 17:30 LT. Due to inability to control the fire and lack of firebombing capability, a request for help was forwarded to world nations. Currently Cyprus, Greece, Bulgaria, Italy, Spain, France, Russia and the UK agreed to send airplanes, fire fighters, fire retardant and other help. Turkey, which was not requested to help, offered its assistance also despite worsening diplomatic relations.

During the night at least three Greek CL415 (2044 and 2049, with the third number unknown at this moment) arrived and stationed in Ramat David AFB. The Greeks also sent a C-130 with firefighters, it landed in an undisclosed location. The Bulgarian aircraft have also arrived as well as a Cypriot helicopter (probably a RAF machine). The Ramat David AFB is located on the eastern side of Mount Carmel and flight distance is around 5 to 7 minutes. Water scooping is done from the Mediterranean Sea which is also nearby.

There is one hell of a war going on Mount Carmel

Pictures of the ongoing battle, aerial and ground, can be seen in a presentation located at: http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/images/fire_carmel2/picweek.html

Questions arising from this event:
1. what kind of equipment does these nations have?
2. what are the capabilities of their equipment?
3. what is the experience accumulated by their operators?
4. are they military or civilian operators?

May god save the men and women fighting the flames and the souls of those perished and wounded,


[Edited 2010-12-03 04:05:30]

10 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1465 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4118 times:

Quoting An225 (Thread starter):
Questions arising from this event:
1. what kind of equipment does these nations have?
2. what are the capabilities of their equipment?
3. what is the experience accumulated by their operators?
4. are they military or civilian operators?

About Russia:
1 & 2)

"It is planned that an Il-76 Ilyushin plane, which is capable of dumping 42 tons of water onto fire hotspots in one swoop, an amphibious Be-200 Beriev plane, as well as an Mi-26 Halo heavy transport helicopter equipped with a 15-ton water reservoir, will leave for Israel on Friday," Andrianova told journalists in Moscow.
3) A lot of experience in summers, especially last summer
4) They belong to the Ministry of Emergency Situations

Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlinebj87 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4037 times:

Seems like a perfect opportunity to give those dc10 and 747 waterbombers a workout. Although I am not sure if they are still in service somewhere.

User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3982 times:

Unless the US has aircraft of a suitable type available in reasonable proximity, given the relatively short period of the blaze, I wouldn't expect an immediate dispatch. I have no doubt that the US is willing and ready to respond if requested as they have been in the past by assisting in fighting bush fires in Australia when requested.

[Edited 2010-12-03 14:52:18 by SA7700]

User currently offlineTu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1472 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3922 times:

Does anyone know who picks up the cost of fuel, maintanence and handling during such operations?

I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4369 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3906 times:

Maybe it's because the United States is too far to get assistance as fast as Spain, UK, France, Russia, Turkey.

Just a thought.

[Edited 2010-12-03 14:53:42 by SA7700]

My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlinelewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3793 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3843 times:

Quoting An225 (Thread starter):

As far as the Greek team goes, they are very experienced with all the fires we have every summer, especially long-lasting ones on rough terrain. I think all the firefighting equipment and personnel belong to the Ministry of Civil Protection.

User currently offlinerolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1822 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3569 times:

I have seen a Canadair water bomber demonstration, and they seem awesomely efficient. It's unbelievable how short their round-trip is (fill up from the sea - fly to fire location - dump their payload - go back to the sea and start over). Really awesome aircrafts. Other then that some smart strategies (like fight fire with fire) can help, I guess. I'm sure it'll subside soon and trees will grow back.

User currently offline4xear From Israel, joined Jul 2010, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3316 times:

Today,the Evergreen Supertanker has arrived in Israel and is helping with fighting the fires in the Carmel mountains. In addition, there are a number of Catalina firefighting aircraft from Greece, Turkey and France that are flying in in formation in an effort to put out the fires. It seems that the fires are coming under control.

The rumor is that the Evergreen aircraft N479EV will be making some sorties during the night to control the fire even more. It apparently has the capability to do so at night.


User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 3367 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3212 times:

Looks like one of the DC-10 tankers is ferrying out of VCV headed east. Maintenance or coming to join the fight?


The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 3367 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3152 times:

Update: 2 C-130s from our local airbase are headed to Israel. The 302nd Airlift Wing operates 6 C-130s eqipped with MAFFS for firefighting duties, one of only 3 units in the USAF to do so.


The last of the famous international playboys
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