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Family Sues TSA Over Screenings  
User currently offlinecessna2 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 330 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 13570 times:

A Durham father is suing the TSA after his infant son made two trips through RDU Airport and was patted down...
http://www.wral.com/news/state/story/8724181/

90 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 13476 times:

Fantastic!...let the party begin                ...I can't wait to hop on the party train with this one...Enough of this abuse. Passengers are the ones that hold the clout in commercial transport industry...we are the commodity...once we push back, the blue shirts will be forced to stand down...g

User currently offlinecbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1552 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 13403 times:

I really hope more people follow suit, but in all honesty, good luck suing the Federal Government! I hope it at least brings to light the stupidity of these new procedures!


ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13038 times:

Quoting cessna2 (Thread starter):
A Durham father is suing the TSA after his infant son made two trips through RDU Airport and was patted down...

While I support the right to privacy, I don't see anywhere in the article that suggests their infant son was patted down...



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlinespartanmjf From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 500 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 12716 times:

Bravo and good for them - the TSA process has gotten completely out of control and violates fundamental presumptions inherent in American constitutional and common law.


"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
User currently offlineABQopsHP From United States of America, joined May 2006, 850 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 12646 times:

And whats to stop a suicide bomber from placing an item in the baby carrier or on the infant itself? The whole system is flawed but when you fly there is a limit to your privacy. Once again, flying is not a right but a privilege. Also profiling does not work, not all terrorist are going to be of Middle Eastern origin, male, and in the age range of 18 to 40 years old. It could easily be someone from North America or Western Europe, blond hair and blue eyes.
JD



A line is evidence that other people exist.
User currently offlinetxagkuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 12590 times:

Here is a suggestion:

Don't try suing the federal government. It would be like someone in England trying to sue the crown. Or a Catholic suing the Pope.

A much more effective technique would be to keep quiet and stay pleasant throughout.

When the invasion of privacy/feeling of the genitalia is complete, politely get the TSA Officer name and/or badge number.

Then sue them (individually) in civil court.

A civil case can be heard by a jury. What jury is going to find in favor of a government worker fondling a child's genitalia?


User currently offlineetherealsky From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 12581 times:

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 2):
I really hope more people follow suit

Hey-o!
(sorry - i had to say it    )

But seriously; I agree and hope that public awareness/disapproval continues to grow regarding the TSA.

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 5):
And whats to stop a suicide bomber from placing an item in the baby carrier or on the infant itself? [...] Also profiling does not work, not all terrorist are going to be of Middle Eastern origin, male, and in the age range of 18 to 40 years old. It could easily be someone from North America or Western Europe, blond hair and blue eyes.

The "what's to stop..." game doesn't really work when it comes to security... after all, what's to stop someone from simply using a body cavity to hide something? No pat-down or AIT machine is going to detect that.

And besides, there is more to good security than just physical profiling. Psychology plays a large part; looking for behavioral cues and other telltale signs. Plus, there is the intelligence side of things which takes place before people even get to the airport. That's how all of the recent terrorism plots have been detected... (although this can be abused and turn into another invasion of privacy if not done correctly...)



"And that's why you always leave a note..."
User currently offlineABQopsHP From United States of America, joined May 2006, 850 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 12528 times:

Quoting etherealsky (Reply 7):
Plus, there is the intelligence side of things which takes place before people even get to the airport. That's how all of the recent terrorism plots have been detected... (although this can be abused and turn into another invasion of privacy if not done correctly...)

And that I agree with you on. So again, the system is flawed, but I would think the psychological approach would be more effective. Is that not how its done in Israel?
JD



A line is evidence that other people exist.
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1597 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 12138 times:

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 5):
Once again, flying is not a right but a privilege.

It is the governments responsibility to give the airlines the privilege to be able fly over my house on a daily basis without being sabotaged. As far as transportation rights in the USA go, I have every right to move about my country in a free manner that doesn't include being felt up.

I think aviation is beautiful thing but if we can't participate, why should you, I or anyone else put up with the noise and pollution for the privileged few?

My point is that if you are going to allow tonnes of metal to fly overhead, over peoples houses, towns and cities, then yeah, you better make it available to everyone. If you are going to start pulling the privilege because of this, that and the other, then it's over. We're done. If for some reason you, I or anyone else can't fly and the list gets longer and longer, the NIMBY issue is going to skyrocket, I can tell you that right now.



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineexFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11991 times:

I hope this case or a similar one makes it through all the way to the Supreme Court, we need a definitive (or at least more specific) ruling on just how intrusive security checks can be before they trigger the "unreasonable" provision of the Fourth Amendment

Quoting txagkuwait (Reply 6):
When the invasion of privacy/feeling of the genitalia is complete, politely get the TSA Officer name and/or badge number.

Then sue them (individually) in civil court.

Virtually impossible as long as the TSA officer was following the policies set down by TSA management, both statute and precedent give broad protection to individuals working for the government against personal liability. It's simply not viable to allow citizens to sue government employees as individuals because people may disagree with a particular law or policy.

And as a practical matter, until the courts rule otherwise the TSA agents are not committing an act that's actionable in civil court, nor are they committing a criminal act. They perform the searches as agents of the government, not in their own right.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13040 posts, RR: 100
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11883 times:
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The new searches are humiliating. There are a violation of the Fourth Amendment.

I'm in a quandary. I love aviation but I will not let someone touch my daughters, other than their doctor, as the TSA 'pats down.' I will also not take the risk that the images will make their way on the web. (Imagine what this would do to a young person.)

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 9):
My point is that if you are going to allow tonnes of metal to fly overhead, over peoples houses, towns and cities, then yeah, you better make it available to everyon

The issue is also that the lawmakers have too easy a time avoiding these scans. They can have an armed escort and pass right through, take a private aircraft, etc.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineiairallie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11719 times:

Justice Alito reviewed airport security and privacy concerns while he was on the 3rd circuit. In that decision he set out a test which balanced intrusiveness against efficacy. http://www.abajournal.com/news/artic...te_alitos_minimally_intrusive_test
It would be interesting to see how the body scanners fare under that criteria and to see what standard the SCOTUS would adopt.

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 5):
Also profiling does not work, not all terrorist are going to be of Middle Eastern origin, male, and in the age range of 18 to 40 years old. It could easily be someone from North America or Western Europe, blond hair and blue eyes.

Everytime I hear this argument against profiling I roll my eyes. That is NOT what profiling involves. It is NOT about singleing out people based on appearance or race. That would be completely inneffective. Profiling is much more comprehensive than that and when done properly like in Israel it is a better use of limited resources and more effective.


User currently onlinedynamicsguy From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 873 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11588 times:

Quoting cessna2 (Thread starter):
A Durham father is suing the TSA after his infant son made two trips through RDU Airport and was patted down...

Read the article people. Nowhere does it say the son was patted down, or even went through the scanner. He has his son included in the lawsuit, but as the article reads it's the scanning and patting down of adults which prompted the suit.


User currently offlinebzwebner From United States of America, joined May 2009, 19 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11390 times:

Quoting txagkuwait (Reply 6):
Also profiling does not work, not all terrorist are going to be of Middle Eastern origin, male, and in the age range of 18 to 40 years old. It could easily be someone from North America or Western Europe, blond hair and blue eyes.

I used to work in Israel in security and my job was to profile.

We arent looking for race or ethnicity. We are looking for body language, eye contact, emotional state, dress (jacket on a hot day etc) and a whole slew of other little warning signs that I wont go into here.

Bottom line, it works. Much more than this nonsense of patting down the 80 year old grand ma in front of her 10 year old grand kid.

I fly alot in my buisiness and I have had the Body scan done to me twice and I have been patted down a few times and slected for "Additional screening" once. Its a tad comical.

Pat downs wont stop somone who is intent on doing somthing harmful. If he wants to do harm ,there are no shortage of ways.

One way that I really love:
FACT: TSA will pat you down and take away nail clippers. Heaven forbid...

FACT: INSIDE the terminal, at ANY Hudson Bookstore, you can buy a Letter Opener made by the Scotch company.

For those who arent familiar with the product... its a plastic handle with a RAZOR BLADE on the end (being sold INSIDE the gate area)... TSA providing security? FAIL!

[Edited 2010-12-04 09:32:56]

[Edited 2010-12-04 09:33:18]


Ben Zwebner, Ferry Pilot & Flight Instructor
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2434 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11317 times:

Quoting txagkuwait (Reply 6):
Here is a suggestion:

Don't try suing the federal government. It would be like someone in England trying to sue the crown. Or a Catholic suing the Pope.

A much more effective technique would be to keep quiet and stay pleasant throughout.

When the invasion of privacy/feeling of the genitalia is complete, politely get the TSA Officer name and/or badge number.

Then sue them (individually) in civil court.

Would never work - because that makes sense.

Quoting exFATboy (Reply 10):
Virtually impossible as long as the TSA officer was following the policies set down by TSA management

Problem is it's the way some of them are following the policies.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8135 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11295 times:

Quoting spartanmjf (Reply 4):
Bravo and good for them - the TSA process has gotten completely out of control and violates fundamental presumptions inherent in American constitutional and common law

Um, what? I think the US attorney will have more than a few rebuttals for ridiculous claims like that.

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 5):
Also profiling does not work

Are you friggin kidding me? Yes, I suppose that's why El Al has had so many on-board incidents in the last 25 years   Profiling is the *only* methodology that works with screening passengers. It should be used with all employees who have SIDA access as well.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineOshkosh1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11178 times:

Flying is inherantly dangerous. It will never be 100% safe...that's a fact. This whole business about being "as safe as possible" is nonsense. The TSA and it's actions are not making it any safer to fly, only more of a pain in the butt for everyone involved...not to mention the cost. We could build aircraft that are extremely safe, and could withstand explosions, impacts, fires etc...better. Of course they would be so heavy they either could not fly, or could not fly and turn a profit due to decreased payload.

The paranoia in this country is rampant, willfully ignorant, and dangerous. We've decided that we want "mother government" to provide for us, and be our omniscent security blanket. We've elected officials to enact innane laws under the guise of making us "safer", when in reality all we've done is allowed big brother to become our caretaker.

How many possible terrorist plots were foiled by the former security screening techniques?...so where conventional wisdom would say "If it aint broke don't fix it", political wisdom screams "we need MORE!"

I truly feel sorry for our country as a whole.



C-150/2, 172, 177, 182, 209, Beech King Air, Convair 580, Twin Otter, RJ, CRJ, ERJ B717,27,37,47,57,67,77. DC8,9,10. MD8
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11124 times:

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 3):
I don't see anywhere in the article that suggests their infant son was patted down...

So what if he was? In all honesty (and common sense), what 'violation' occurs in patting down an infant?

Quoting spartanmjf (Reply 4):
violates fundamental presumptions inherent in American constitutional and common law.

Hmmm! so does blowing up an aircraft full of people, or do you disagree?

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 5):
And whats to stop a suicide bomber from placing an item in the baby carrier or on the infant itself?

   precisely.....and I've experienced a terrorist putting a bomb directly below a baby in it's pram! But.....to so many 'armchair' experts who obviously have no semblance of reality of terrorism except in their minds it would never happen and, of course, their objections are paramount!

Quoting txagkuwait (Reply 6):
What jury is going to find in favor of a government worker fondling a child's genitalia?

So are you saying such a case would be cut and dried.....that your civil courts automatically flout law?


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22932 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11095 times:

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 15):
Would never work - because that makes sense.

...and also because the law doesn't permit it.

A government employee is generally immune from suits filed against him in his personal capacity unless the plaintiff can show that he violated a clearly established constitutional right. Now, there are good arguments on both sides about whether the new searches are constitutional. There is no good argument that the searches violate a clearly established constitutional right.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1597 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11065 times:

Quoting txagkuwait (Reply 6):
Here is a suggestion:

Don't try suing the federal government. I

Why not? Our brave friends at United Air Lines did it back in 1934 for damages from when air mail contracts were cancelled by Postmaster General Farley. It took around 8 years, but they finally won in 1943. So it is possible.



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22932 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11014 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 18):
But.....to so many 'armchair' experts who obviously have no semblance of reality of terrorism except in their minds it would never happen and, of course, their objections are paramount!

Interestingly, in my experience, TSA is wholly uninterested in just about anything associated with a baby.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineGoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10913 times:

the image the body scanner puts out isn't graphic or degrading as people are saying. as for the pat downs, go thru the scanner and everything is all right. although i doubt the pat downs are as invasive as everyone says.


From the airport with love
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3010 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10812 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 19):
A government employee is generally immune from suits filed against him in his personal capacity unless the plaintiff can show that he violated a clearly established constitutional right. Now, there are good arguments on both sides about whether the new searches are constitutional. There is no good argument that the searches violate a clearly established constitutional right


I suspect the TSA is going to start "patting down" the school children before boarding the school bus next. It is for the childern's own safety being public transport.

Okie


User currently offlineB727LVR From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 630 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 10604 times:

Quoting bzwebner (Reply 14):
Also profiling does not work, not all terrorist are going to be of Middle Eastern origin, male, and in the age range of 18 to 40 years old. It could easily be someone from North America or Western Europe, blond hair and blue eyes.



There is more to profiling than just this.

Quoting bzwebner (Reply 14):
I used to work in Israel in security and my job was to profile.
Quoting bzwebner (Reply 14):
Bottom line, it works.



Thank you!!!! Its nice to have someone who has actually done it to give their point of view.


When it comes to profiling, too many people confuse true profiling, like what bzwebner did, to what we see on tv when the cops are looking to shut down a gang or something similar to that. Its much much more complicated and sophisticated that what we all think it is.



I'm like a kid in a candy store when it comes to planes!
25 toobz : I just don't get it. why are we so paranoid in this country. who cares if a person gets patted up and down..if you don't want or like that kind of tre
26 YYZRWY23 : Dear TSA agent, You could at least take me out to dinner before doing that. Or cuddle afterwards. I bet you wouldn't get so much crap. Sincerely, Gett
27 usair330 : I disagree with you. If you are a business man that travels alot that's a privilege. When you save your hard earned money and plan a trip somewhere t
28 contrails : I was wondering when this would happen. It was inevitable. All I can say to this family is good luck. They'll be needing it. What would happen if they
29 Coronado990 : The "jacket on a hot day" thing...that kind of scares me. I've taken jackets with me leaving SAN on a hot day flying to colder climates. Unless you'r
30 B2468 : As far as I know, leaving your personal property is also a privilege, not a right. So, when you want to leave your personal property, and use a public
31 N766UA : I disagree too. Flying is a business, a result of free enterprise. Free enterprise is effectively a right in the United States, and the federal gover
32 tharanga : Sooner or later, there was going to be a test case reaching the Supreme Court. Maybe it will be this. Sooner or later, the Supreme Court will have to
33 Post contains links lijnden : I wonder why the airline industry alone is being so heavy screened when there were also attacks on trains, subways and busses. Why we don't see the TS
34 kiwimex : Put them on the spot. Have them all submit to a FULL pat down of themselves and their children on public television.
35 Post contains images DocLightning : People need to realize that opposition to racial profiling is not just a civil rights issue. It's actually a threat to security. If the policy is tha
36 N766UA : You're assuming racial profiling is an all-or-nothing venture. There are absolutely degrees to which racial profiling can be enormously effective. Ob
37 Coronado990 : I would think that for the most part trains and buses don't fly over people's house. Number one priority is protecting the people on the ground from
38 N766UA : "They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into! I say- let 'em crash!"
39 Aaron747 : Nobody's talking about racial profiling - threat profiling is the name of the game. The agents in Israel know what they're doing - and the process st
40 virgin777 : And these are the very same people who would be just as vocal when somebody makes it through a security point with a weapon or the like !!! They shoul
41 N766UA : That's also an enormous issue. TSA hiring standards are in the toilet. There are some very good TSOs out there, but there are way more who seem like
42 iairallie : Seriously? It is one of many, many things trained security profilers look at. It is not going to trigger extra screening on it's own. I also disagree
43 KLXA380 : In the famous words of John Michael Ossborne: " Finished with my women cause she couldn't help me with my mind, people think that I'm insane because I
44 Post contains images AA43E : I'll tell you why old boy, because that type of touching is offensive! We tell our children every day if ANYONE touches them like that to tell an adu
45 aircellist : A few years ago, I travelled from YUL to MAD, spending three days in Paris on the way. I took AC YUL-LGA, then AF JFK-CDG and EZ ORY-MAD. On the way b
46 Post contains images captainstefan : Pun intended?
47 exFATboy : It shouldn't - all indicators like that would lead a properly trained and professional security service to do is take a slightly closer look at you.
48 Triebwerk : It's pretty graphic, but your face is blurred so that no one can tie it to you (unless your body profile is unusual, I guess).
49 Post contains images lightsaber : They've gone to far with the current choice. Hats off Alas... they'll board a private jet with no Freedom Fondle. I hope so. I've gone from LAX to DE
50 bzwebner : I couldnt have said it better myself. Prepare for the unexpected. WEARING the coat on a warm day doesnt tell me that you are a threat, it does howeve
51 MSYPI7185 : It is already being discussed for Buses, Trains, Subways and Cruise Ships. Nope, completely off the mark. MD
52 Quokka : Cruise lines already have metal detectors and the like in place. Baggage is also scanned for potential threats. I have been on cruises where they tak
53 DocLightning : And pretty soon, any sort of travel will be a "privilege" and not a right and none of us will be able to go anywhere, except maybe on foot, without a
54 tharanga : No, quite a few people talk about racial profiling. So if you are talking about more sophisticated threat or behavior-based profiling, then you must
55 Aaron747 : Well anyone talking about profiling only "Middle Eastern people" or "Muslim people" is an idiot. There are Islamist Filipinos, Indonesians, Algerians
56 Woof : Whoa there... we're not talking about screening for Islamic people, we're talking about screening for terrorists. Unfortunately, historically, a sign
57 fxra : Why except traveling on foot? Can I not walk a bomb into a crowded place?? Perhaps we should install scanners every block... you know, just to be sur
58 Post contains images AirNZ : I absolutely agree with you, and have repeatedly said so. You'll find it's not that people are so against security as such.....but, like so many here
59 Kaiarahi : Which post was that? Good for you. Give yourself a pat on the back. I guess it's a sign of an aging population that what used to be "family jewels" i
60 tharanga : Bringing things back to the original topic, it would be useful if somebody with a legal background could supply the legal precedents where the courts
61 kaiarahi : At the risk of being flamed again by a poster on this thread who is not from NZ who insists that it's all about consent and the Federal Courts have n
62 par13del : That in the US at least according to their constitution is the slippery slope, other countries laws, citizen rights, legal precedents etc. have evolv
63 AirNZ : Excellent post and description of the situation par13del and welcome to my RUL (which I thought I had already done anyhow!!)
64 AirNZ : I think it would be beneficial to read what was actually said. The said poster did not state that the US Federal Courts "had nothing to do with it".
65 Cubsrule : Well, not according to the 9th Circuit which (in the language quoted above) rejected the consent theory and chose what looks to be a reasonableness s
66 NASCARAirforce : The TSA also needs to realize that this could cost them their jobs in another way. If passengers stop flying because of the TSA, then there will be le
67 Post contains links lightsaber : As you noted, case law was for the older TSA searches. Not what is being complained about. There was another thread on the impact to short hop flight
68 tharanga : Despite all the scholarly language they are going to cloak it in, ultimately this is probably going to come down to a simple gut feeling on the part
69 Post contains images kaiarahi : Here's what they said (post 61) - seems pretty clear to me: ++++++++++++++++ Fortunately for the said poster, the post in question (in another thread
70 iairallie : I'm not against security. I'm against intrusive security that is ineffective puppet theater.
71 toobz : ok mister...i still say if you and your family are that PARANOID than take AMTRAK and leave the flying to professionals who dont give a sh*t if someo
72 DocLightning : Nobody is arguing that they're not. We're arguing that if you look for people solely based on race, the terrorists will simply change the race of the
73 Mudboy : I am so sick of all this whining about the new screening procedures, get over it already. I just flew through DXB, ATL, MSP, JFK, LHR, JAN and CUN and
74 kaiarahi : When they're fully deployed, everyone will. Read the TSA website! Have you ever actually been through the patdown? Had your balls felt? Had your peni
75 Post contains images AA43E : Yes old boy, they ARE forcing us to submit. Be groped or don't fly, and frankly I still contend it to be unreasonable. Almost as unreasonable as your
76 MSYPI7185 : That type of security has been here in the US for qutie sometime also. But be prepared to be strip searched on Trains, Subways, Buses and Cruise Line
77 Cubsrule : On what do you base this assertion?
78 ikramerica : That's something that until it is actually done, we shouldn't worried about. Seriously, "what's to stop" XYZ is not the way to go about this. Hollywo
79 XJetflyer : TSA is a complete joke. While I agree with lawsuits being filed, I doubt our own government cares and will likely not side with us. The only thing thi
80 WildcatYXU : One has to wonder what would be the purpose of such completely useless action and if implemented, what would be the public's reaction to such BS. Not
81 Fly2HMO : I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that unless the lawsuits are in the number of several hundred, I'm pretty sure nothing will become of this. I'
82 Access-Air : Well we cant really do this anymore...Our first line of defense used to be the airline personnel at check-in......Im sorry but a home computer that c
83 CharlieNoble : Seems like this is much more 'doable' in a country with only a few airports.[Edited 2010-12-06 11:19:10]
84 skyguyB727 : Remember the kid in Orlando who had a teddy bear that he got as a gift? It had a loaded handgun inside. What's the point in having security if the ai
85 ikramerica : So we are told. All four aircraft were destroyed. How do we really know what they used? It's convenient for the government to say they used things AL
86 Cubsrule : We don't, of course. But what evidence can you point to that the "official" story is incorrect?
87 Post contains images ikramerica : Years of experience living in the USA and hearing the lies the leadership tells when the truth might be embarrassing... Just look at the way Pat Till
88 Maverick623 : Not true. They used pure physical strength and the element of surprise (in every facet) as well. In fact, when word got to United 93 that they were b
89 AirNZ : Sorry, but I'm not getting the 'reasoning' here at all (and curious it's only being mentioned for the first time!) other than for pure sensationalim
90 iairallie : What a load of conspiracy theory hogwash. We have witness testimony(Betty Ong) from the actual flights detailing what was used to take over the flight
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