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The OneWorld Thread  
User currently offlineAA787 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 610 posts, RR: 12
Posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5779 times:

There were SkyTeam and Star Alliance threads earlier this week... so why not start a thread about oneworld.

Current and Future Developments?
New member rumors?


ET In NYC
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5767 times:

Any more rumours on EI coming back into the alliance?

User currently offlineTimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1323 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5645 times:

No real news on any future members, just the usual rumours around Aer Lingus, jetblue, Hainan, TAM and/or Air China switching alliances to OW, WestJet etc etc.

Still, AB was rumoured on here for quite a while as a possible future member, and that came to fruition, so who knows.....


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2866 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5382 times:
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In the case of TAM, is it impossible for 2 airlines either in partnership at the Corp level (like 49% share of airline A and 51% of airline B) or a mergered entity splitting alliances? Bad examples but does SWISS have to belong to Star because Lufty is?

I have certainly seen companies throw big money away before ( especially when that money was spent 2 years ago) but with UA spending close to 2 years training TAM to get their computers to work with Star, a GIANT star studded event on to of Sugarloaf - that because of a deal with a smaller airline much smaller Alliance (I have nothing against OW) - that they would switch. Aren't the feeds to TAM from all the Star Carriers be worth much more?

I'm no expert on the matter, can anyone illuminate me
on all this? Thanks



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1590 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5321 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 3):
In the case of TAM, is it impossible for 2 airlines either in partnership at the Corp level (like 49% share of airline A and 51% of airline B) or a mergered entity splitting alliances? Bad examples but does SWISS have to belong to Star because Lufty is?

I have certainly seen companies throw big money away before ( especially when that money was spent 2 years ago) but with UA spending close to 2 years training TAM to get their computers to work with Star, a GIANT star studded event on to of Sugarloaf - that because of a deal with a smaller airline much smaller Alliance (I have nothing against OW) - that they would switch. Aren't the feeds to TAM from all the Star Carriers be worth much more?

I'm no expert on the matter, can anyone illuminate me
on all this? Thanks

I'm no expert in the matter either, but it would seem more than unlikely they would split alliances. There are a lot of reasons why you wouldn't want to split alliances and I can't think of any reason why they would want to. Airlines can and do maintain codeshares with airlines from opposing alliances, so any relationships with individual carriers they choose to maintain they could without remaining in the alliance.

Like you I expect them choose to remain in Star. There was a lot of effort put into joining that alliance while at the same time there was a lot of effort put into the merger. That being said, I expect that they would do a complete review post merger and allow both alliances to woo them before making a final decision.


User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3429 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5303 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 3):

I honestly think that oneworld has more to offer TAM, minus the Portugal feed, which TAM could replicate on its own metal.
Feed from MAD and LHR, LAN in South America and the juggernaut- AA in the "Americas" offer most Latin American, like TAM a great opportunity to be a big player in a dominant grouping in relatively big pond.

oneworld potential future members:

IT is joining
AB is joining
TAM will hopefully with the LAN tie up
MX will hopefully be resurrected
EI will hopefully come back (maybe as part of the IAG)
oneworld needs to look at Africa and China- before Star and SkyTeam get all the decent airlines.
My wildcard would be MH joining oneworld (maybe as part of IAG if BA are adventurous). Would offer a true South East Asia partner and allow for a good transit point for the Kangaroo runs.
B6 would be good for oneworld but GREAT for AA. (Not merged, just as "exclusive partner")
AS likewise would be god for oneworld but GREAT for AA. (Not merged, just as "exclusive partner")
PLUNA maybe as part of the LATAM Group eventually.
WestJet would add good Canada coverage, but I don't think it's essential, like Star and SkyTeam don't lack anything by not having a dometic Australia partner.

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5286 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 3):
I have certainly seen companies throw big money away before ( especially when that money was spent 2 years ago) but with UA spending close to 2 years training TAM to get their computers to work with Star, a GIANT star studded event on to of Sugarloaf - that because of a deal with a smaller airline much smaller Alliance (I have nothing against OW) - that they would switch. Aren't the feeds to TAM from all the Star Carriers be worth much more?

LAN has suprerb connections to all the major Oneworld hubs in the US,

It links up well with the main hubs in MIA JFK DFW SFO and LAX, and a lot more routes. The thread talking about the 2 airlines joining had a lot positive points as to why TAM would be better suited to Oneworld.


User currently offlineTimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1323 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5253 times:

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 5):
AS likewise would be god for oneworld

Discussed a lot before, but their relationship with DL is way too important for them to want to risk joining OW


User currently offlineTimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1323 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5240 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 6):
LAN has suprerb connections to all the major Oneworld hubs in the US

True, but I think if LATAM did decide to consolidate into one alliance, it would all come down to who offered them the best deal. I have no idea on what sorts of analysis need to go on before such a decision is made, but I do think this could go either way.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8752 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5229 times:
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Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 4):
Like you I expect them choose to remain in Star. There was a lot of effort put into joining that alliance while at the same time there was a lot of effort put into the merger. That being said, I expect that they would do a complete review post merger and allow both alliances to woo them before making a final decision.

Why would LATAM select Star over oneworld when Star recently recruited rival airlines Avianca-Taca and Copa Airlines/Copa Airlines Colombia?


User currently offlineju068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4960 times:

If they were to expand in Africa who could they get? There aren't any relatively interesting airlines out there.
What about Royal Air Maroc, Air Algerie or Tunis Air?

However I was thinking, now that the merger between Olympic and Aegean is not going to happen what about trying to get Olympic into OneWorld? I know that they are quite close to Sky Team and that they codeshare with a lot of airlines there but if you offer them an attractive deal why not.
Then they would have a nice coverage of the Eastern part of Europe - Finnair, Malév, Olympic.

What about Aerosvit? They seem to be doing ok and Ukraine is a relatively large market.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4911 times:
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Quoting ju068 (Reply 10):
However I was thinking, now that the merger between Olympic and Aegean is not going to happen what about trying to get Olympic into OneWorld?

I don't think that the merger is officially "off" , IIRC it is still under investigation by the EU competition authorities , and I would not be surprised if it is blocked , but I don't think that has happened yet .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2866 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4516 times:
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Is the idea to kill the TAM and LAN brand names and become LATAM AIRLINES?

I can't believe the Brazilians would ever go for that. Braziliians barely consider themselves very different than the rest of Spanish speaking countries in Latin America. They are still licking the wounds from VARIG!



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4514 times:
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Quoting VC10er (Reply 12):
Is the idea to kill the TAM and LAN brand names and become LATAM AIRLINES?

No , if LATAM goes ahead there will still be two different brands TAM in Brazil and Paraguay and LAN in Chile , Argentina , Peru , Ecuador , Colombia ( and whatever other countries they eventually expand in to )



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11434 posts, RR: 61
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4459 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 3):
but with UA spending close to 2 years training TAM to get their computers to work with Star, a GIANT star studded event on to of Sugarloaf - that because of a deal with a smaller airline much smaller Alliance (I have nothing against OW) - that they would switch. Aren't the feeds to TAM from all the Star Carriers be worth much more?
oneworld may be a smaller alliance than Star overall, but not in the market that matters most to LAN and TAM: namely Latin America, and South America specifically.

In that market, oneworld is far and away the strongest alliance - with the second largest airline group on the continent, the largest airline (by far) to North America, and the largest airline to Europe.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4430 times:
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Quoting commavia (Reply 14):
with the second largest airline group on the continent
Second largest ? Isn't the LAN group the largest ?



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineSR4ever From Luxembourg, joined Mar 2010, 800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4276 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 3):
Bad examples but does SWISS have to belong to Star because Lufty is?

LX is a 100% subsidiary of LH, so it would be hard to imagine LH allowing LX joining SkyTeam or OneWorld...

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 5):
I honestly think that oneworld has more to offer TAM,

Not necessarily. New UA and US offers a substantial US feeder, and the same can be said about LH+LX+OS+SN+BD (not to mention other future European members of the LH Group).

In terms of Anti-Trust, BA-IB+LANTAM may raise more issues than LH+LANTAM, even if TP is to join the LH Group.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 5):
EI will hopefully come back (maybe as part of the IAG)

EI found OW poor value for money, and perhaps BA was felt to close and too dominant. As a niche airline, EI would fit pretty well within the LH Group.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 9):
Why would LATAM select Star over oneworld when Star recently recruited rival airlines Avianca-Taca and Copa Airlines/Copa Airlines Colombia?

Thos other airlines are good for Central America, yet not so good to gain footage in South America, especially on such a large market as Brazil

Quoting ju068 (Reply 10):
What about Royal Air Maroc, Air Algerie or Tunis Air?

TU is closer to Star Now.

AT and AH are close to AF, but one of these could indeed go for OW.

Quoting ju068 (Reply 10):
However I was thinking, now that the merger between Olympic and Aegean is not going to happen

Oh really?

Quoting ju068 (Reply 10):
What about Aerosvit? They seem to be doing ok and Ukraine is a relatively large market.

This one is now quite close to SkyTeam.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8752 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4233 times:
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Quoting SR4ever (Reply 16):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 9):
Why would LATAM select Star over oneworld when Star recently recruited rival airlines Avianca-Taca and Copa Airlines/Copa Airlines Colombia?

Thos other airlines are good for Central America, yet not so good to gain footage in South America, especially on such a large market as Brazil

Colombia's three major domestic airlines are not going to enter the same alliance. Also, Avianca-Taca has hubs at LIM and BOG. LAN has a hub at LIM and soon at BOG.

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 16):
In terms of Anti-Trust, BA-IB+LANTAM may raise more issues than LH+LANTAM

Not at all. LH/LX/TP already operate more flights into Brazil than JJ does into Europe.


User currently offlineskyhigh From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 235 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4233 times:

After recently writing to oneworld office with some thoughts of mine regarding the involvement of future Airlines (like they are going to listen to me), I received a reply stating the following:

"For competitive reasons, and because most of these discussions are covered by confidentiality agreements, I am sure you will appreciate that I cannot detail which airlines or countries are involved.

What I can say, however, is that we are interested in adding a Mainland China carrier. We came very close in our talks with China Eastern, but, as you know, it opted in the end for SkyTeam, in a move which most commentators suggested was driven by potential consolidation opportunities rather than straightforward alliance logic. So we are looking at other opportunities there.

You asked about Africa. To be frank, there are other regions ahead of Africa in our priority list, because in global terms, demand for international air travel within the content is very low - around 1 per cent of total world demand. Meantinme, our existing members operate an extensive range of routes to and from the continent and our affiliate, the British Airways franchisee Comair, offers a network in Southern Africa".

I personally would love to see MH join as a member. I know that there is a lot of history there between QF/BA and MH and that there is a lot of pride at stake. MH was asked to be a founding member along with QF and BA but thought that it would become a feeder to QF and BA's services based at SIN.
MH would be great for us Australians flying to the Middle East, or somewhere in Europe other than LHR and FRA. They could also add some extra lift in PER, ADL and BNE.


User currently offlineSR4ever From Luxembourg, joined Mar 2010, 800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4115 times:

Not that I don't like OW, far this way, but let's face it: they have fallen well behind Star Alliance and SkyTeam in terms as to recuiting new members, and I am afraid there aren't too many genuinely good opportunities left.

All the more desolating as SkyTeam was very much behind OW when it was launched 10yrs ago...


User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4111 times:

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 19):
Not that I don't like OW, far this way, but let's face it: they have fallen well behind Star Alliance and SkyTeam in terms as to recuiting new members, and I am afraid there aren't too many genuinely good opportunities left.

Maybe Oneworld does not want to be like the other alliances recruiting like there is no tomorrow, and only wanting a select number of carriers. Might be why it was voted the best alliance again.


User currently offlineSR4ever From Luxembourg, joined Mar 2010, 800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3979 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 17):
Not at all. LH/LX/TP already operate more flights into Brazil than JJ does into Europe.

Anti-trust appraisal goes beyond the number of flights and also takes into account current and potential market shares, among other things by elasticities and barriers to entry.

IB is already so dominant on Europe-South America as a whole that adding LANTAM could replicate the same kind of assessment which the EU did of BA-AA in 1998...

LH+TP+JJ would defintely have some dominance on Europe-Brazil, but as a bigger market, Brazil may be easier to be entered into by new competitors.


User currently offlineSR4ever From Luxembourg, joined Mar 2010, 800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3827 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 20):
Maybe Oneworld does not want to be like the other alliances recruiting like there is no tomorrow, and only wanting a select number of carriers. Might be why it was voted the best alliance again.

Fair enough, but in the end, you re end up with quite many uncovered zones...

I agree that alliance membership shall be conditional on a few essential criteria, but taking a few risks may eventually pay off. Remember how poor the reputation of KE and SU was 10yrs ago. Yet, SkyTeam went for them, and it's now bearing fruit.


User currently offlineMorcegoA330 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3532 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 12):
... Braziliians barely consider themselves very different than the rest of Spanish speaking countries in Latin America. They are still licking the wounds from VARIG!

Not really sure what you meant by considering different than the Spanish speaking countries? But with regards to Varig, I don't believe anyone cares anymore about it. Varig is gone!  



There's no place like around the world
User currently offlinespud757 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 327 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3416 times:

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 16):
EI found OW poor value for money, and perhaps BA was felt to close and too dominant. As a niche airline, EI would fit pretty well within the LH Group.

Wasn't the real reason for EI leaving OW that EI decided to make a transition to a more LCC-like model. That seems to be changing again.

EI and BA still have a close working relationship and given the current CEO of BA was also that at EI perhaps EI is on the BA/IB 'IAG shopping list' of 12 airlines. EI/BA currently feed each others routes between Ireland-LHR but then EI competes with BA at its LGW base. EI re-joining OW could see a more joined up EI/BA operation on the LGW routes.

Would EI in *A be over dominant in the UK-Ireland market place given that *A in the form of BD already hold a large number of LHR slots with an extensive operation between LHR, Dublin and Belfast. And what would BA do if EI went to *A? Would they continue to codeshare with EI on LHR-Ireland or would they have to put there own metal on such routes?

EI seems to fit better with OW than *A - but then what about ST? There isn't a ST base in the UK. If EI moved to ST then that would give ST an airline with UK bases at LGW, BFS plus the bases within Eire.


25 JAL : You don't need to be the biggest to be the best! Saying that, I still hope to see more members join OneWorld! Aer Lingus ; Hainan Airlines and Malaysi
26 SR4ever : Yes, EI now eyes something more of a Legacy than an LCC, but frankly, is teaming up with AB the best way of achieving such move? BD would probably ha
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