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EK Dropping CPH - Again?  
User currently offlineArn777 From Sweden, joined Jul 2010, 198 posts, RR: 1
Posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 6990 times:

I read in Danish travel news, http://check-in.dk/, that EK most likely will drop CPH this time as well. If I am no mistaken this is the 3rd or 4th time EK has been provided slots at CPH without using them.

I know QR has gotten a good grip on Scandinavia with daily 330 to ARN and increasing traffic to CPH but would think that EK have a heavy strategy on which parts of the world to serve regardless of the competitive situation. I am surprised if they decide not to come!

I have heard that QR have been looking at OSL for a long time now without anything happening so why not beat QR and go for OSL, and then EK will have a part of the Scandinavian market. OSL is turning out to be a very effective airport for connecting traffic. In addition the competitive situation at OSL is much lighter than CPH. I also think that EK would to quite well at ARN, again because of the limited competition travelling to Asia, Australia and NZ.

Anyway waiting for EK to serve Scandinavia soon.

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCyba From Cape Verde, joined Nov 2005, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6884 times:

EK has not announced flights to CPH recently. They did so once, years ago which they subsequently cancelled but since then nothing. Where do you get the "3rd or 4th time" from?

User currently offlineArn777 From Sweden, joined Jul 2010, 198 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6717 times:

I have heard it from reliablie sources down at CPH, so this is for sure. There are probably some Danish friends here that can confirm this. However it is not uncommon to apply for slots and then just let them go when the deadline is passed.

Anyway, I guess the increased frequency at HAM might be a signal that they are not coming to CPH. But you never know..


User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6663 times:

I tried the link but it came up blank, the usual blurb about not being found, moved or unavailable - "Siden blev ikke fundet - Siden du har søgt kan være flyttet, omdøbt eller den er midlertidig ikke tilgængelig".

If this is true, it is disappointing. But what is the bilateral status between Denmark and the UAE? Do EK and/ or EY have unrestricted rights or are they limited in terms of frequency or capacity?


User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1452 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6652 times:

One of QR's advantages over EK is that it has a number iof smaller capacity planes in its fleet. So QR has lower start-up costs if it inaugurates less busy routes like TXL, ARN, CPH etc. When demand picks up then QR substitutes an A330 for its smaller narrow-bodied planes.

User currently offlineArn777 From Sweden, joined Jul 2010, 198 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6492 times:

Quoting Quokka (Reply 3):
I tried the link but it came up blank, the usual blurb about not being found, moved or unavailable - "Siden blev ikke fundet - Siden du har søgt kan være flyttet, omdøbt eller den er midlertidig ikke tilgængelig".

Try this one: http://check-in.dk/newselement.cfm?nNewsArticleID=40557


User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6348 times:

Quoting Arn777 (Reply 5):


Thanks, the new link works.

Interesting that the article speculates that the previous non-start up was due to those cartoons being published. If that were the real reason I would have thought they'd never go to AMS given the popularity of a certain politician there.

While CPH appears willing to welcome EK, how large is the expected market and how much trade is there between Denmark and the UAE. Obviously, EK's business model rests on a high proportion of passengers continuing beyond DXB, but they have always pointed to growth in trade between countries, increases in the number of expatriate residents in Dubai and so on. Are these current factors in EK deciding not to fly to CPH?


User currently offlineEBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6263 times:

EK has applied for slots at CPH from June (according to TakeOff.dk) - not from the end of March as mentioned in the article.

If it was the case that EK was to start up with the S11-schedule (end of March), I agree we would probably have seen an announcement already. But since the assumption in the article is wrong, I'd say that EK could still announce CPH, like they have just announced Geneva and double daily to Hamburg. But if it doesn't happen within short time, it's not going to happen this time around. They will just let go of the slots they have applied for.

Personally, I have my doubts. It seems they have already informed the public about route changes for next season, so it would seem unlikely they would announce CPH at a later stage.



Future flights: CPH-BRU-CPHx2; CPH-BKK-MNL; MNL-GUM-HNL-LAX
User currently offlineMaersk737 From Denmark, joined Feb 2004, 669 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6194 times:

The article from November, with start-up date 2011.06.01

http://www.takeoff.dk/news/20194

Peter



I'm not proud to be a Viking, just thankfull
User currently offlinekevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6194 times:

Quoting Arn777 (Reply 2):
I have heard it from reliablie sources down at CPH, so this is for sure. There are probably some Danish friends here that can confirm this.

Right, I've also heard this, although I haven't got anything in writing right with me I can post. But I saw an article last week somewhere where SK's intercon boss commented on EK's likely start-up on CPH in June 2011 - here, he argued that EK would be no big threat to SK's DXB winter service, because the SK route has now been established quite strongly and SK offers a better product. He argued that QR would be much more affected by this than EK, which I tend to agree with him on. Also, if EK was to start-up the route in June, this would even more be an indication that they were clearly going for the connecting market; nobody wants to go to Dubai in June on holiday, and the CPH-DXB market is still heavily biased towards ex-CPH traffic.

But I haven't seen anything since on EK possibly starting up on CPH; or OSL or ARN for that matter. So maybe it was just another rumour. SK does have a good DXB product, and they've increased frequencies this winter. But I still think there'd be room for both SK and EK on CPH-DXB; SK only in wintertime. This would be similar to VIE-DXB, which is also served by both OS and EK; and on top of this year-round by OS. The VIE catchment area (and EK does not take much connecting from other carriers in Europe AFAIK) is not bigger than CPH's.

I hope that we will see EK at CPH soon - preferably with at 773! We don't want their 332's!

Quoting Quokka (Reply 6):
Interesting that the article speculates that the previous non-start up was due to those cartoons being published. If that were the real reason I would have thought they'd never go to AMS given the popularity of a certain politician there.

No doubt the cartoons played the major role here - I remember EK said that the new route was booking very good before it started, and suddenly after the cartoons the new CPH route was taken off the map, due to "lack of aircraft".

Now, however, the dust has settled, and don't think they look too much at these things at the end of the day at EK. They look at the business. Granted, we'll likely not see them fly to TLV anytime soon, but other than that, I think they're pretty liberal in this regard (Dubai is also not the most holy place in the muslim world I'd say; it's 110 % capitalism, and alcohol and indeed prostitution is all around - I doubt whether a few cartoons in a Danish newspaper will make a huge difference for EK's business plans in the longer term..). Also, there are other places in Europe where they should not fly then - Netherlands for one, but also Austria and France, for instance. And half of their fleet comes from Toulouse..

Best regards,

Kevin777  



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 6069 times:

Quoting kevin777 (Reply 9):
I doubt whether a few cartoons in a Danish newspaper will make a huge difference for EK's business plans in the longer term..


I tend to agree with that assessment. EK intends to grow into a major airline and it can't do that if it allows a bit of anti-Muslim sentiment to get in the way. That's why I was wondering about the trade and residency links between the two countries and whether these factors may inhibit an early start up.


User currently offlinedeltamartin From Sweden, joined Dec 2010, 1061 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 5406 times:

I'd love to see some EK birds here in Scandinavia, as previously mentioned maybe ARN or OSL might be a good idea for EK to go, to not have to compete with SK's CPH-DXB. I know that there's alot of interest for Dubai, atleast here in Sweden, and i also know that if EK can offer a cheap product, alot of Scandinavians would probably consider then when traveling to Asia etc.

User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 5207 times:

Quoting Arn777 (Reply 2):


I have heard it from reliablie sources down at CPH, so this is for sure. There are probably some Danish friends here that can confirm this. However it is not uncommon to apply for slots and then just let them go when the deadline is passed.

It ahs taken AMS years of rumours (plus a few times they requested slots) before EK announced AMS as a pax destination... Thus you never know if or when it's going to happen. However, if QR already flies to CPH, I don;t see why EK would come to CPH. The same why QR decided not to start pax flights to AMS (they requested and received slots for twice daily flights)

Quoting kevin777 (Reply 9):
The VIE catchment area (and EK does not take much connecting from other carriers in Europe AFAIK) is not bigger than CPH's.

However isn't OPEC headquarters in Vienna?


User currently offlinekevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2897 times:

Quoting deltamartin (Reply 11):
ARN or OSL might be a good idea for EK to go, to not have to compete with SK's CPH-DXB.

Yet again, SK and EK on CPH-DXB would be competing for some different traffic - SK going for the DXB destination (also why they only fly in wintertime), EK primarily going for connecting traffic (also seen by their proposed start in June). An EK CPH-DXB might be just as big as a competitor to SK's BKK and China routes than their seasonal DXB route.

Quoting LJ (Reply 12):
The VIE catchment area (and EK does not take much connecting from other carriers in Europe AFAIK) is not bigger than CPH's.

However isn't OPEC headquarters in Vienna?

I believe it is, but doubt traffic is that significant just because of this (although SV does fly to VIE...). But regardless, DXB has hardly any oil; I think it's something like a few percent of their GDP, less than Denmark; much, much less than Norway. That's why Dubai is in so much trouble financially..


Kevin777  



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlineaffirmative From France, joined Jul 2009, 350 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2838 times:

I hope EK can make a better job than the dimwhits at QR.. I'm Swedish living in Dubai and know quite a few Swedes, Danes and Norwegians that live here. All of us have the choice between Norwegian or SAS during the winter but during Summer (when we all want to leave) no direct connection so we choose between the ones with the least connections. There's obviously a lot of choice between all the major carriers but all of them are really expensive (seems their prices are higher if you book them from Dubai). Now, QR has an opportunity since their flight is the least hassle. A quick stopover in Doha and you're home. And still to a price that is really competitive, and with fantastic service. But somehow they don't bother telling people. My friends here barely know about QR flying to CPH and ARN, they book 15 hour flights with connections in CDG, VIE, LHR, FRA and so on. I actually spoke to the Sales Director at QR here in Dubai and he had the attitude that he couldn't care less... I guess it's more money than brains atm..

I do hope that EK could start since they are a company you can count on. They are interested in making money and would work pretty hard trying to do so. I'm also quite surprised that they aren't looking at ARN since there are a lot of Swedish companies looking at establishing in UAE as well as companies here looking to invest/establish in Sweden..

Cheerio..



I love the smell of Jet-A1 in the morning...
User currently offlinekevin777 From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1165 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2204 times:

Quoting affirmative (Reply 14):
(seems their prices are higher if you book them from Dubai).

Maybe this is the case for low season (summer) - but in wintertime, at least SK prices are lower ex Dubai that ex CPH. Not much difference for Y fares, but significant difference for Y+ and J. CPH-DXB-CPH in Y+ is DKK 11.000; J is DKK 15.000 (these prices are pretty static). The other way around, DXB-CPH-DXB is around DKK 8.000 in Y+, and 11.500 IIRC in J - the latter fare is indeed not bad at all.

Quoting affirmative (Reply 14):
I'm also quite surprised that they aren't looking at ARN since there are a lot of Swedish companies looking at establishing in UAE as well as companies here looking to invest/establish in Sweden..

Maybe they are just out too late, just like in CPH - if QR hadn't been at ARN, EK might have been there now; same goes for CPH

Kevin777



"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
User currently offlineNavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1170 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2153 times:

Quoting affirmative (Reply 14):
Quoting affirmative (Reply 14):
I'm also quite surprised that they aren't looking at ARN since there are a lot of Swedish companies looking at establishing in UAE as well as companies here looking to invest/establish in Sweden..

Emirates will be looking for transit traffic through Dubai to Far East as a large part of any new service. Since Qatar is well established in Stockholm and the room for two carriers serving the same type of transfer service in the same area is limited here I doubt Emirates will start services here. If they do I think Qatar and Emirates will be in trouble on the route since there is probably not enough traffic for both. If Emirates come Qatar will most likely be forced to leave after a while... I doubt there is enough room in the market for both either in CPH or ARN...

[Edited 2010-12-09 01:31:54]


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