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Emirates Or Etihad To Bogota  
User currently offlineEK156 From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2005, 765 posts, RR: 3
Posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9854 times:

Okay so the article says one of the UAE Airlines will start flights to Bogota, Colombia. But which one?

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/uae-c...y-for-flights-colombia-364575.html

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12594 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9846 times:

Does either carrier have an interline agreement with Avianca (or any other commercial relationship); if one does, it's probably more likely to start such a route.

Given BOG's high altitude, this strikes me as a possible 345 operation, but that doesn't really help to narrow the field!


User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2988 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9662 times:

My money is on EK starting DXB-CCS-BOG.


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1654 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9645 times:

Quoting EK156 (Thread starter):


Okay so the article says one of the UAE Airlines will start flights to Bogota, Colombia. But which one?

It sounds much like something EK would do than EY. I cant imagine that the fourth destination in the Americas for Etihad would be Bogota, I'm sure there are other cities higher on their priority list. Emirates on the hand already serves quite a few destinations and some with multiple frequencies so it wouldn't shock me to see them branch out into smaller markets.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9600 times:

Isn't BOG hot/high.....is DXB doable with a reasonable load with eqp they have?

Or they will need to make a pitstop at sea level on the way back.

DXB-BOG-PTY-DXB would do really well. I was in PTY the other day and the level of arab/indian investment (+number of arabs/indians there) really surprised me.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2129 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9140 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 4):
Isn't BOG hot/high.....is DXB doable with a reasonable load with eqp they have?

High at ~2,600mts, but not at all hot. Weather last few days has been 5 - 15 C.

Could be done BOG-CCS-DXB, similar to how 741 - 742 flights to Europe used to be done in the late 80s and early 90s. They used to take off pretty light from BOG to CCS and fuel up in CCS for the journey to Europe.

FYI, as some point in time I think IB or AZ actually did BOG - SDQ - MAD / FCO, but I can't remember which airline exactly.

Cheers
Coal



Nxt Flts: SQ SYD-SIN-DEL-SIN-SYD | VA SYD-DPS-SYD
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9022 times:

I would expect EK or EH to fly to MIA first before flying to any other secondary Latin Anerican market.

User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2129 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9010 times:

BOG is a very large cargo center, could that be one of the reasons? Plus it would give connectivity to people in Venezuela, Ecuador, Peru, and perhaps even Bolivia without having to go all the way to Brazil.

I'm still not convinced that a MIA - DXB / AUH / DOH, etc would really work.

Cheers
Coal



Nxt Flts: SQ SYD-SIN-DEL-SIN-SYD | VA SYD-DPS-SYD
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8989 times:

Why not MIA is a world city with many asians migrating and coming here. Even if the market is small it certainly is not smaller than BOG/CCS.

User currently offlineJoKeR From Serbia, joined Nov 2004, 2245 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8979 times:

Not sure if it would matter but doesn't EK have full sixth freedom rights to/from anywhere to and from Dakar?


Kafa, čaj, šraf?
User currently offlineag92 From India, joined Jul 2006, 1317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8978 times:

I think when we talk about EK or any other airline like them we can't say if it will work such as MIA/BOG/XXX - DXB rahter we should be looking at the connectivity options beyond Dubai, and say how is the market between say Asia and S. America, or India/C. America as well as that

User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8973 times:

Plus MIA is the second biggest cargo airport in North America and the biggest for Latin America, EK could survive just off cargo loads alone. Second when it comes to demographics Bogota and Miami are very similar, both have small asian populations and weak ties to asia. There is nothing Bogota has that Miami doesnt. However with Caracas its a complete differnet story, there is oil and strong political ties to the Mid-east (especially Iran), so i can see EK starting CCS but not certainly not BOG.

User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2129 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8809 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 8):
many asians
Quoting miaintl (Reply 11):
both have small asian populations

Make up your mind. Your second post is closer to the truth, IMO.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 11):
Plus MIA is the second biggest cargo airport in North America and the biggest for Latin America

   This might be more of a reason. I still find debatable of whether Miami is a true World City, but that's just my personal opinion after living there for 8 years and then moving around elsewhere in North America, Europe, and Asia.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 11):
weak ties to asia

I bet Colombia and its close neighbors have stronger ties to Asia, namely China, than Miami does.

Cheers
Coal



Nxt Flts: SQ SYD-SIN-DEL-SIN-SYD | VA SYD-DPS-SYD
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8681 times:

DXB-BOG-DXB would work well with an A345. Can do it non-stop with a full load both ways I think. Would carry a lot of cargo as well.


What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlinedowntown273 From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8594 times:

I don't think DXB-BOG can really have that much market unless you make a sweet stopover somewhere.

Singapore's SIN-BCN-GRU comes to mind to me when I think of this.

Currently, there is no nonstop service between Barcelona and Bogota; if EK opened DXB-BCN-BOG I think it could work.

Edit: Avianca operates BOG-BCN 4x weekly with A330.

[Edited 2010-12-08 04:32:31]

User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8305 times:

Quoting Coal (Reply 12):

Well when was the last time you lived in Miami, if it was the 90's than i can see what your saying. But Miami has changed alot in the past ten years even the downtown is completely unrecognizable. I am sure EK can make it work somehow, plus keep in mind there is the cruise ship industry here that attarcts many aisan workers especially from India and Thailand.


User currently offlinecgnnrw From Germany, joined May 2005, 1170 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8134 times:

I wouldn't be surprised to see EK start service to BOG. They seem to want to fly everywhere. However, I doubt EK would do it with a stop in MIA. This would mean all pax would have to go through the hassle of US customs. I know pax from South America have a hard enough time going through MIA when they actually want to enter the US, why would anyone put themselves through all that crap if they don't have to?

A stop in CCS, BCN or DKK would work though.



A330 man.
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7920 times:

Quoting cgnnrw (Reply 16):
A stop in CCS, BCN or DKK would work though.

I can see them doing that - as they'll be able to use a 77W then.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlinescorp82 From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7519 times:

There have been rumors for awhile now that EK is looking to fly into BOG. The possible rumored routings have included DXB-CCS-BOG-CCS-DXB and even DXB-MAD/BCN-CCS/BOG and so forth. Colombia and UAE have signed a bilateral agreement in June 2009 and have been in talks during the last couple of months to make it even more flexible. I believe that the bilateral allows airlines from Colombia and UAE up to 28 weekly frequencies with stopovers allowed in CCS, GRU, even PTY and several points in Europe with full fifth freedom traffic rights if I'm not mistaken. And in the last few weeks Panama and UAE have signed an agreement to allow air frequencies between the two countries. This an open skies agreement with practically no restrictions.

As such a possible DXB-BOG-PTY-DXB routing is definitely not out of the question and I would say is very likely. BOG and PTY are very strong hubs in the area and will also provide feed and connections from throughout the region.

Panama has a very strong economy and enjoys great foreign investment. Colombia has definitely changed in the last few years and is now an emerging world market that is enjoying a 250% increase in foreign investment in the last year. BOG was ranked the second busiest airport in the region after MEX. Once the construction of the airport remodel plan is complete, BOG will have the most modern airport as well as the largest cargo terminal in the region as well.

I definitely wouldn't rule out the possibility of EK serving BOG in the not distant future. I wouldn't be surprised to see EK in SCL, LIM, GIG, and MEX in the future as well.

Given that even SQ had a very difficult time in obtaining rights for the BCN-GRU leg of their upcoming Brazil operation and even thought about pursuing the SIN-MXP-GRU routing if they were not allowed to continue their planned flight to GRU from BCN, I feel that EK might not be pursuing a possible DXB-MAD/BCN-South America routing.

With the state of affairs in Venezuela, perhaps EK might not be considering flights to CCS. Inflation in Venezuela increased almost 30-40% in 2009 and foreign investment has seen a sharp decline.

I also do think that EK could make MIA work. If a UAE carrier is to serve MIA, it will be EK rather than EY.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7406 times:

Quoting Coal (Reply 12):
Quoting miaintl (Reply 8):
many asians
Quoting miaintl (Reply 11):
both have small asian populations

Make up your mind. Your second post is closer to the truth, IMO.

Facts aren't an "IMO."

Miami actually does have a decently sized and quickly growing Pakistani/Indian community. Bombay is Miami's second largest O&D market to Asia, larger than Tokyo, Shanghai or Hong Kong. The largest is Mania, and one can thank the cruise industry for that. Emirates is actually in a good position to capitalize on Miami's key Asia O&D markets, which are in Southeast Asia, not the Pacific Rim.

As most of Miami's Middle Eastern traffic is going to the eastern Middle East - TLV/AMM/BEY/DAM - it will have to focus more on transit traffic to parts of Asia.

The market is easily there for Emirates to fill a daily flight to Miami. And I wouldn't be shocked if it happens sooner, rather than later.

And, yes, if Bogota comes to the EK network, a transit via Miami is extremely unlikely because of visa regulations. However, if Emirates ever wanted to get extremely ambitious, like it did flying trans-Tasman routes between Australia and New Zealand with 5th freedom, I don't think the thought of Emirates flying DXB-MIA-BOG is too crazy as long as it complimented another routing, if Emirates thought it could focus on the local MIA-BOG market.

I do think that Emirates is going to have to seek more 5th freedom route opportunities as it seeks to expand, as it has done between New Zealand and Australia. Fifth freedom flying between Miami and northern South America is one possibility. As is 5th freedom between the Americas and Europe, or even Asia and the Americas.

[Edited 2010-12-08 12:38:10]


a.
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7341 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):

Speaking about the Eastern Middle East, whats the situation with TK and MIA are they not set to fly here sometime next year?


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25999 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7153 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
if Bogota comes to the EK network, a transit via Miami is extremely unlikely because of visa regulations.

Didn't you just say in another thread that transiting at MIA is no problem to/from Latin America since most passengers already have multiple-entry US visas?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
I do think that Emirates is going to have to seek more 5th freedom route opportunities as it seeks to expand, as it has done between New Zealand and Australia. Fifth freedom flying between Miami and northern South America is one possibility. As is 5th freedom between the Americas and Europe, or even Asia and the Americas.

The days of 5th freedom operations are over, with very limited exceptions. The carriers with the lowest yield on a route are almost always the 5th freedom operators. It's very hard to design a schedule that meets local requirements on the 5th freedom sectors. I believe the only reason EK operates Australia-New Zealand is to make use of aircraft that would otherwise sit on the ground in Australia.

And EK has already tried 5th freedom US-Europe operations. They operated DXB-HAM-JFK daily for a couple of years, initially using A340-500 and later 777-300ER. The HAM-JFK 5th freedom sector was a failure and was dropped.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7132 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 21):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
if Bogota comes to the EK network, a transit via Miami is extremely unlikely because of visa regulations.

Didn't you just say in another thread that transiting at MIA is no problem to/from Latin America since most passengers already have multiple-entry US visas?

It's not - most do have multi-entry visas. Still, from a marketing stand-point, I don't expect that a carrier would serve a direct route via a third point that requires a transit visa. That being said, Korean Air does ICN-LAX-GRU.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 21):
The days of 5th freedom operations are over, with very limited exceptions. The carriers with the lowest yield on a route are almost always the 5th freedom operators. It's very hard to design a schedule that meets local requirements on the 5th freedom sectors. I believe the only reason EK operates Australia-New Zealand is to make use of aircraft that would otherwise sit on the ground in Australia.

I don't disagree, I just think Emirates will find a point in time where it needs to think beyond Dubai. JFK-HAM was not successful, of course, but JFK-HAM isn't a trunk route like MIA-MAD, ORD-AMS or JFK-LHR, any of which I think Emirates might find greater (although not easy) success.



a.
User currently offlinebogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7086 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 21):
Didn't you just say in another thread that transiting at MIA is no problem to/from Latin America since most passengers already have multiple-entry US visas?

Transiting via the US is a hassle regardless, I highly doubt somebody would like to put himself through that pain having other options around.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7083 times:

Quoting bogota (Reply 23):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 21):
Didn't you just say in another thread that transiting at MIA is no problem to/from Latin America since most passengers already have multiple-entry US visas?

Transiting via the US is a hassle regardless, I highly doubt somebody would like to put himself through that pain having other options around.

So why do thousands upon thousands upon thousands do it everyday? Why is the United States the number one transit point for travel between Asia and Latin America, accounting more more than three-fourths of the market?



a.
25 Santi319 : beause obviously there are no other (cheap) option!!!
26 MAH4546 : And then people will continue to do so. It will always be cheaper to transit via the United States, and typically faster and more convenient despite
27 LipeGIG : MIA ability to deal with cargo is due to the traffic between North and Latin America. I can't expect DXB-MIA-Latin America to be any time competitive
28 Post contains images behramjee : I too recall reading an article many months ago that EK was seriously examining the potential of extending their services from Spain to Latin America
29 bogota : Thousands upon thousands? Interesting, maybe including those from markets where there are no direct connections. Any how we are talking about a fligh
30 MAH4546 : Yes, thousands upon thousands of passengers. Everyday. And not just in markets with no direct connections. AA carries quite a bit of BOG-PAR traffic
31 chepos : If EK starts flying to BOG i highly doubt it is going to be through MIA.Yes the market between MIA and BOG is big but as mentioned above for Colombian
32 yellowtail : 1) No other option like us here in BZE 2) Cheaper that flying non-stop 3) Like the fact that you can stop in MIA/ATL/IAH and do a little shopping YEP
33 bogota : I will still not believe thousands but anyhow that is not the point. Yes I would asume you can find some BOG bound pax going through MIA from Europe
34 MAH4546 : So how do you think Miami fills all those flights to Europe? Invisible people? Miami is a huge local market to Europe, but there is still a lot of fe
35 SCL767 : Your theory certainly does not apply to the SCL-AKL-SYD, SCL-MAD-FRA, SCL-CCS-MIA, SCL-BOG-MIA, SCL-LIM-JFK, SCL-LIM-LAX, or GRU-LIM-SFO routes.
36 Viscount724 : If you mean that LA generates higher yields on their AKL-SYD and MAD-FRA 5th freedom sectors than the 3rd/4th freedom operators, what evidence do you
37 SCL767 : MAD-FRA went from daily to 6x weekly since the a/c was needed to increase frequency to daily on the SCL-AKL-SYD route. Cargo yields should also be co
38 Bogota : I would highly appreciate you adhere to communicating in a descent manner, if you can not hold a conversation without this type of answers then refra
39 MAH4546 : I'm the one not communicating in a decent manner? You want to refuse to recognize a fact that a thousands upon thousands of Latin Americans transit vi
40 LipeGIG : There's no need of a middle east flight goes thru MIA. If not thru CCS, will be for sure non-stop. Agree 100% as growing activities from Brazilian co
41 Post contains images ETinCaribe : mountains, cooler temps, real people, here are 3 Would direct flight to BOG work, perhaps with a 772LR?
42 klwright69 : I believe EY is aways off from South America service. EY seems more interested in Asia at this point. Their new Seoul service launches December 10. I
43 Bogota : Absolutely, it is ridiculous to think about it, not only because it makes no geographical sense but because of all the hassles that would detter most
44 Grid : What is the hassle?
45 SoAmSky : Answer from reply 33, and I would have to agree that's a little bit of a hassle for just transfer...
46 chepos : The hassle is going through US customs and immigrations, go through secondary checks (if the immigration agents deems necesary), recheck your bag, and
47 Grid : OK, that makes sense. I wasn't aware you had to go through immigration and customs and have a visa if you are merely transiting through the airport to
48 Post contains images Avianca : lets cross the fingers they will start BOG very soon and than followed by LIM! (they should do it before TK enteres in the market) I doubt it on Boliv
49 LipeGIG : Not only that but it's not attractive for business nor to leisure. Connectivity would demand a late night MIA-DXB and in the return it could not be a
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