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Youngstown (YNG) Close To Acquiring 9L/UA To IAD  
User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 511 posts, RR: 1
Posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4666 times:

Article in today's Youngstown Vindicator:

Merger fallout could add flights at Valley airport
http://www.vindy.com/news/2010/dec/09/by-ed-runyan/

Short Preview of Article:
Loss of a United/Continental hub in Cleveland would most likely mean loss of flights there and additional opportunities for flights into Youngstown-Warren, said Dan Dickten, aviation director at the local airport.

One U.S. airline already is studying service to Washington, D.C., four times daily from the Valley airport.

Dickten has been talking with officials at a variety of airlines since he came on board in April, hoping to attract one to provide daily service to a hub airport such as Dulles International in Washington, D.C., Chicago O’Hare or Detroit International.

Colgan Air is conducting a feasibility study now to help it decide whether to offer flights four times daily from Vienna to Washington Dulles in a 34-seat Saab jet-prop aircraft.


I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3804 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4643 times:

4x on Colgan! Just what the doctor ordered. One of the few legacy airline ideas at YNG that makes sense. Best of luck getting that. Hopefully you take CRW's planes and someone else gets our route.

User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6121 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4623 times:

This guy thinks that if UAX is successful flying with a Saab to IAD that this will warrant CR7 service to ORD? CAK learned years ago that even with 3-daily ORD flights, that IAD service didn't work. I think this is some wishful thinking.

It's to bad that YNG has to depend on the loss of CO in CLE to make 4 daily props work. It's at the expense of others, many others being CLE a large hub.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 511 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4572 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 2):

This guy thinks that if UAX is successful flying with a Saab to IAD that this will warrant CR7 service to ORD? CAK learned years ago that even with 3-daily ORD flights, that IAD service didn't work. I think this is some wishful thinking.

It's to bad that YNG has to depend on the loss of CO in CLE to make 4 daily props work. It's at the expense of others, many others being CLE a large hub.

Considering nothing is final at CLE and that Colgan is doing a viability study at their own expense makes me believe that this may happen regardless of what transpires at CLE. Unless you know otherwise, I am not expecting United/Continental to announce some major reductions at CLE within the next month.

I'll take the opinion of Thomas Reich over a forum poster any day. He has proven he gets things done:
http://airservicepartners.com/Index10_files/Clients.htm



I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlinenkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2662 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4567 times:

"Regional airline American Eagle is also considering service between the local airport and Washington Dulles"

Why would American Eagle consider flying from YNG to IAD?



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6121 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4467 times:

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 3):

Not doubting that Colgan will come or could make this work. I have thought for a time now that they should serve this route. It's the way the article is written, just rubs me the wrong way. It's a tough pill to swallow that he is eying the demise of CLE for the fortune of YNG. It will be lost of people loosing their jobs in CLE. It could have been written differently.

But I understand business is business.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineflyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2001 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4445 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 2):
CAK learned years ago that even with 3-daily ORD flights, that IAD service didn't work. I

When did they fly CAK-IAD? It must have been at least 10 years ago or more...Just curious


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6121 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4438 times:

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 6):

It was +10 years ago. Back in the J31 day's. I flew it frequently.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineizbtmnhd From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4366 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 5):

If CLE goes down, I don't see it as a boon for YNG.

One possible scenario is the "domino effect": CLE will lose its legacy hub status but is going to gain a lot of LCC domestic service, CAK's Ops shrink due to LCCs switching to CLE. This forces CAK folks to look at getting legacy spoke service (again) to fill in demand, leaving YNG with even less options than before. If it gets real bad at CAK, they may even try to poach Allegiant from YNG.

Again, just one scenario, not saying this will 100% (or even 50%) happen.

I get to positive PR needed for the press but I'd be careful what to wish for.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7551 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4277 times:

Would this Colgan flying be at-risk?

Yes, agreed Saab 340 service to IAD is right now likely the most likely of connectivity to a legacy network at this time.

DL to DTW, used to seem like it had a chance to return, but with DL phasing out the Saab fleet, and cutting small markets (many of which are larger than YNG), it just doesn't seem likely for DTW service to come back.

ORD service just doesn't seem likely either, particulary since AA would have no interest in YNG and UA would probably rather go for IAD service with props.


User currently offlineflyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2001 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4240 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 9):
ORD service just doesn't seem likely either, particulary since AA would have no interest in YNG and UA would probably rather go for IAD service with props.

Just playing devil's advocate here...ya never know. They may run something like 2x ERDs to ORD as they've entered some pretty small markets lately. With the immenent pull down of CLE, they may be able to capitalize on UA ceding some of the Northeast Ohio market.

Also, when they say 70 seat aircraft, could they mean DH4s? They never said anything about it being a jet...I know CO runs a few CLE-ORD DH4s right now.

I believe 4x Saab 340s is perfect for this market. As long as they don't price themselves out of the local market, I'm sure they can make some kind of money on the route. I would think they'd probably get 3 or 4 passengers a flight to IAD only which would probably pay for most of the flight. If YNG can do some outside of the box ideas to help lower the cost for Colgan, it has a pretty good chance of surviving.

On a Colgan related note, are they going to retire some of their SF340s when they start taking some of the XJ SF340s? Or are they going to add them to the fleet to increase flying?

Quoting as739x (Reply 7):
It was +10 years ago. Back in the J31 day's. I flew it frequently.

I wonder if they could get away with a couple Saabs now a days or maybe 2x ERJs? I'm sure CAK doesn't want to necessarily step on the toes of the US/DCA service which they worked so hard to get.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7551 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4221 times:

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 10):
Just playing devil's advocate here...ya never know. They may run something like 2x ERDs to ORD as they've entered some pretty small markets lately. With the immenent pull down of CLE, they may be able to capitalize on UA ceding some of the Northeast Ohio market.

Yeah, just haven't really seen these small markets out of ORD yet.

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 10):
On a Colgan related note, are they going to retire some of their SF340s when they start taking some of the XJ SF340s? Or are they going to add them to the fleet to increase flying?


Colgan getting the XJ Saabs is still more or less a rumor / wish at this point. No deal has yet been made with Saab yet to obtain the aircraft. Remember that Delta is the one one returning the aircraft to Saab Leasing, so Pinnacle would then have to directly make a deal with Saab Leasing.


User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 511 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4215 times:

I also want to throw out that this past weekend it was announced that a 501(c) support group is being created to assist the airport in such things as marketing, fundraising, and helping to improve the mindset of the YNG Airport in the Mahoning Valley once again. The group is called the YNGAir Partners. I know other airports across the country have similar things, the first one that comes to mind is the Friends of Gary Airport in Gary, IN.

Article in the Warren Tribune-Chronicle:
http://www.tribtoday.com/page/content.detail/id/550324.html

Article in the Youngstown Vindicator:
http://www.vindy.com/news/2010/dec/0...y-native-seeks-to-promote-airport/

Support Group Facebook Page:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/YNGAir-Partners/128579103860841

Support Group Twitter Page:
http://twitter.com/#!/yngairpartners



I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlineflyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2001 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4209 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 11):
Colgan getting the XJ Saabs is still more or less a rumor / wish at this point. No deal has yet been made with Saab yet to obtain the aircraft. Remember that Delta is the one one returning the aircraft to Saab Leasing, so Pinnacle would then have to directly make a deal with Saab Leasing.

Gotchya. I didn't know the exact details of what I have heard. Thanks.


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6121 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4089 times:

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 10):

Excellent point. Landing a DCA flight was very nice for CAK.

My opinion is that UAX will add EWR service to feed Euro flights there within a few years. This could leave service to IAD-YNG service open. There is no doubt in my mind after Smisek's remarks in Cleveland, at the very least CLE will be reduced (IMHO). I hope this brings possibilities to CAK and YNG, not the demise of them.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 511 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3828 times:

Just FYI, the American Eagle to Dulles route was incorrect. They are looking at Chicago O'Hare I was told. It was printed incorrectly.


I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3804 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3628 times:

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 15):
Just FYI, the American Eagle to Dulles route was incorrect. They are looking at Chicago O'Hare I was told. It was printed incorrectly.

I really really really dont see that happening.. or working out if it does happen. YNG is just too small to make flights work to AA's chicago hub. If any ORD route would work there it'd have to be UA.... and on 50 seaters.


User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 511 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3552 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 16):
I really really really dont see that happening.. or working out if it does happen. YNG is just too small to make flights work to AA's chicago hub. If any ORD route would work there it'd have to be UA.... and on 50 seaters.

I do not see it happening either, but I do like the fact there are more than just one carrier studying potential routes out of YNG. Allegiant is doing well and it is without a doubt assisting YNG's efforts to acquire additional airline service.



I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3804 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3515 times:

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 17):
Allegiant is doing well and it is without a doubt assisting YNG's efforts to acquire additional airline service.

Eh...They've reminded people there is an airport there. That's really about it.

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 17):
I do not see it happening either, but I do like the fact there are more than just one carrier studying potential routes out of YNG.

If it makes you feel even better, every airline in the US has probably at least "looked" at it once  


User currently offlinetoltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3497 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 18):
Eh...They've reminded people there is an airport there. That's really about it.

They've also shown that they are willing to create demand in a market by subsidizing airline service. No different than Amtrak. There's no demand for passenger rail in most of the country. But we still have service for political reasons. People love those $30 train tickets to Chicago, not caring that each and every passenger has well over $100 of taxpayer money attached to that ticket. Many small communities that think they should have air service do the exact same thing. If you are willing to throw enough money at an airline, darn right they'll fly anyplace. Until the money runs out.


User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 511 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3443 times:

It is worth noting it took a SCASD grant to bring Allegiant to town and now they are profitable without it. The SCASD grant they are using to hopefully bring is there to guarantee success. From what it sounds like in recent articles, the way the deal is being structured is Colgan will only dip into the fund when deemed necessary. If they are making profit from the get-go, only a small portion of the SCASD grant will be used for such things as marketing, etc.

Also wanted to say the non-profit organization that has been formed, YNGAir Partners, is looking for some ideas that you guys may have to help make our organization. We already have a plethora of ideas, but we would love to hear what you think a group with our mindset should strive to accomplish.



I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3804 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3338 times:

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 20):
From what it sounds like in recent articles, the way the deal is being structured is Colgan will only dip into the fund when deemed necessary. If they are making profit from the get-go, only a small portion of the SCASD grant will be used for such things as marketing, etc.

We all know how those deals work out.. They'll get the money somehow.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7551 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3272 times:

Keep in mind that by having Allegiant, yes it does help people remember that there is an airport in town, but it also helps pay the bills. They help pay for the airport, in turn making it somewhat more favorable for another airline to start service by having lower rents/fees than if one carrier was brunting everything.

User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3804 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3252 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 22):
Keep in mind that by having Allegiant, yes it does help people remember that there is an airport in town, but it also helps pay the bills. They help pay for the airport, in turn making it somewhat more favorable for another airline to start service by having lower rents/fees than if one carrier was brunting everything.

My understanding of G4 is that they like to be "bill averse". They normally try to milk airports for all they've got.


User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1297 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3218 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 23):
My understanding of G4 is that they like to be "bill averse". They normally try to milk airports for all they've got.

That wouldn't surprise me considering that almost every small community would love to have G4 service. Knowing that gives them tons of leverage against all these small airports


User currently offlineCODCA09 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3164 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 23):
My understanding of G4 is that they like to be "bill averse". They normally try to milk airports for all they've got.

That's because any airport that enplanes 10,000 passengers or more automatically qualifies for FAA grants starting at $1,000,000. In many cases Allegiant's service is the only thing allowing an airport to qualify for the FAA grant. So it makes sense that some airports give Allegiant everything for free since having Allegiant at the airport makes them $1,000,000. Skybus did the same thing and that's why airports like St. Augustine and Wilmington, DE rolled out the red carpet for Skybus without charging them a penny to use their airport.


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