CHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 63 Posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 23872 times:
Reports coming in - Boeing released their latest projection according to reports hitting the net. Straits Times and AFP are carrying the story at the moment. Will wait for the Boeing press release but shouldnt be too long.
Apparently Boeing told AF in a 777 delivery that the 787 will EIS in June/July 2011. Bloody excellent news if true - i was worried it might be 2012. Come on Boeing!
Now lets see what the FAA have to say...
Will link when I can.
[Edited 2010-12-09 16:29:47]
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
DualQual From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 23887 times:
wingman From Trinidad and Tobago, joined May 1999, 1838 posts, RR: 5 Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 23810 times:
We used to ask about the year tongue in cheek but it really is a legitimate question now. Have they specified it's 2011 or will they try to keep that under wraps for now?
That will be interesting indeed. At this point in time I will believe it when I see it happen. It is sad, but that is how I see it. First the problems need to be sorted out and the fix needs to get an approval. After that they can resume flight testing which I hope will from that point on will go smoothly without any new problems. Only after full certification the deliveries of the B787's can, should and hopefully will start.
Without any backing-up data on the problem and the fix, any date mentioned now though "leaks" in the press remains a guess or rumor in my opinion. .
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26723 posts, RR: 83 Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 23420 times:
As I noted in the other thread on this topic, when I see ZA007 lift off heading for NRT/HND, I'll believe it.
On the flip side, Boeing might just end up delivering 109 frames before year end (as they had planned back around 2008 or 2009) because they'll have that many completed and waiting for the bloody certs!
ZKCIF From Lithuania, joined Oct 2010, 226 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 23372 times:
If this is the last delay, i'm really glad it is that short. maybe i was being really naive, but i feared something like "April 2012". The sun is rising...
Caryjack From United States of America, joined May 2007, 265 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 23043 times:
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter): Apparently Boeing told AF in a 777 delivery that the 787 will EIS in June/July 2011.
Thanks for the interesting information. A poster remarked on a different thread that AF had spilled the beans on the new 787 EIS date, even though AF had not ordered the 787.
But what I'm really calling about is...
Quoting brushpilot (Reply 7): There is no calendar for delays with Boeing, probably not enough PinUp girls in Everett
...which I think is really funny. And like all good humor, there is some truth to it.
Asiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1019 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 23007 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 5): On the flip side, Boeing might just end up delivering 109 frames before year end (as they had planned back around 2008 or 2009) because they'll have that many completed and waiting for the bloody certs!
The question is how completed they really are, considering what rework/design changes Boeing has to do after the last incident?
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26723 posts, RR: 83 Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 22918 times:
Quoting Caryjack (Reply 8): A poster remarked on a different thread that AF had spilled the beans on the new 787 EIS date, even though AF had not ordered the 787.
Yet...
They delayed their RFP until they could get a better idea of dates from Boeing on when they could get 787s, so it makes sense they were asking and Boeing was answering.
CHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 63 Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 22850 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 10): Quoting Caryjack (Reply 8):
A poster remarked on a different thread that AF had spilled the beans on the new 787 EIS date, even though AF had not ordered the 787.
Yet...
They delayed their RFP until they could get a better idea of dates from Boeing on when they could get 787s, so it makes sense they were asking and Boeing was answering.
Would be great if AF/KL put in a big order of 787s now as a vote of major confidence in the project - would be a good signal.
Am I the only one who thinks a 788 would look gorgeous in KL livery?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
PPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8492 posts, RR: 43 Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 22402 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 5): On the flip side, Boeing might just end up delivering 109 frames before year end (as they had planned back around 2008 or 2009) because they'll have that many completed and waiting for the bloody certs!
If they deliver and fly them all out in one day, I will partially forgive Boeing for the delay
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
BoeEngr From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 313 posts, RR: 33 Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 22378 times:
Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 4): So we are going to do the delays six months at a time as usual.. Cool.
Wouldn't that be 4-5 months this time?
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11):
Am I the only one who thinks a 788 would look gorgeous in KL livery?
No, my friend, you most definitely are not. It would look stunning in the KL livery.
Caryjack From United States of America, joined May 2007, 265 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 22370 times:
This from the 787 Smoke Thread #3:
Quoting tropical (Reply 121): Apologies if this has been reported already.
Boeing officials 'tell Air France 787 first deliveries delayed until July 2011'
Quoting ER757 (Reply 131): Interesting that they told AF since they haven't even ordered the aircraft (unless they are a UFO order already on the books)
There are 18 UFOs on Boeings current O & D site. Are some of these for AF as ER757 reasoned?
Quoting Stitch (Reply 10): They delayed their RFP until they could get a better idea of dates from Boeing on when they could get 787s, so it makes sense they were asking and Boeing was answering.
Or is AF waiting to get firm dates before ordering?
These early delivery dates suggest that AF must have already placed an order, right?
Thanks,
Cary
slcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2456 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 22296 times:
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter): Apparently Boeing told AF in a 777 delivery that the 787 will EIS in June/July 2011.
I wouldn't use boeings estimates for this plane anymore, haven't we learned anything. July is probably as late as they can say without making customers get furious. Saying 2012 in 2010 would be a nightmare they need to wait until its at least 2011 to mention the chance of 2012 even if they know theres no chance. I'm not saying its 2012 but this is exactly what they are gonna say no matter what they really think. Its all estimates anyway no one on this planet really knows the date they gave is probably a best case scenario
nycbjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 447 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 22147 times:
Wow doom and gloom in a 787 thread and more sitch gives up the ghost... am I the last optimist here?
Track Record Pre 787 = Excellent
Track Record Now = Craptastic
However they have been able to resolve most issues within specified windows as of late (side to body join anyone?)
While Boeing screwed the (poor) pouch royally (and I'm not debating that) they have over (75%?) flight testing done, and all we are doing here is designing a "fod catch" and some software (unless I missed something). This all seems rather minor, and in fact 4-5 months seems like they have some additional margin (hah not much but just saying).
There seems to be no major design issues so maybe (just maybe) we can believe them this time (when it becomes official).
I for one am still a "Jet-A is half full" man, they are righting their cock ups as they come up, I am still super excited by this airplane, and anyone remember first flight and the goosebumps they got? I do.. she will be a magnificent bird.
Good night from the east coast.. and remember we are all aviation enthusiast here.... I wish the same good will for Airbus and the A350, and god willing a new narrow body will join us end of decade
Asiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1019 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 22090 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 10): They delayed their RFP until they could get a better idea of dates from Boeing on when they could get 787s, so it makes sense they were asking and Boeing was answering.
Boeing would have given AF a firm date if they asked 2 years ago as well. It would just had been wrong, and who can tell it's correct this time?
Boeing still has the critical production ramp up to deal with, and we have seen how easy that is with the A380.
I think AF is also very interested to hear how the plane has performed during the test flights.
Boeing has at least a fair bit of real test data for the 787, which the A350 has nothing of yet.
tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80 Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 22086 times:
Quoting wingman (Reply 2): Have they specified it's 2011 or will they try to keep that under wraps for now?
They haven't altered their current plan of 2011, so until they say something different even the rumour mill is saying somewhere in 2011, just probably not in Q1. If it's not 2011, I'm really intrigued as to what they heck they'd be doing for the bulk of 2011.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
As I noted in the other thread on this topic, when I see ZA007 lift off heading for NRT/HND, I'll believe it.
Line 7, the first delivery plane, is actually ZA100 (according to NYC777).
BlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1710 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 22077 times:
You're not the only optimist here regarding the 787. I am also eagerly awaiting its EIS - it is an excellent plane and will be for many years to come. I'm silently keeping my fingers crossed for the eventual launch of the 787-10, but since the design change of the -9 I don't have such high hopes for it (hint: the wing).
Which does not justify the piss-poor programme management job Boeing did with it... Had Scott Fancher led the project from the beginning, who knows - maybe it would already be in service?
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 26723 posts, RR: 83 Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 21863 times:
Quoting 328JET (Reply 12): A B787-8 never looks good because it is too short. It is the B787-9 which has more appeal - in KLM colours as well without any doubt!
Well KL had ordered the 787-8, via lease from RBS. So at one time, they did feel it was the right size for them.
Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 18): Boeing would have given AF a firm date if they asked 2 years ago as well. It would just had been wrong, and who can tell it's correct this time?
I know, but AF publically stated they held off on the RFP, which was planned for about now, until next year after the fire aboard ZA002 stopped the flight test program. And they said it was not because of the fire, but because Boeing was expected to announce another EIS delay (which they have).
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 19): Line 7, the first delivery plane, is actually ZA100 (according to NYC777).
It started life as ZA007 before Boeing decided to re-start the numbering of production frames at ZA100, so sometimes I remember the old number.
UAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2225 posts, RR: 13 Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 21845 times:
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11): Am I the only one who thinks a 788 would look gorgeous in KL livery?
Everything looks gorgeous in the KLM livery! I want some 748i in KLM livery!!!
/// UNITED AIRLINES
25 zeke: I would be more interested in what the NTSB had to say, as it will look at the whole system, it would be critical of failure of the FAA, the manufact
26 cuban8: I remember reading a few weeks ago that the delay would be at least 3 month or possibly up to 6 month if no major design flaw was detected. So a 4-5 m
27 scbriml: That depends if you include some civil-based military programs (Italian & Japanese tankers, Australian Wedgetails). The only thing I would be con
28 FlyNWA727: I actually agree with you on something lol. Apparently, I am in the huge minority of people who don't find the 788 appealing at all. Besides the real
29 gasman: I agree entirely - the trick however, is not let this con you into entering the aircraft. There you'll find a Y class seating config that gives a who
30 mdword1959: Guy Norris (AWST) has posted a good summary of yesterday's news along with some additional information about the Laredo incident. See: http://www.avia
31 DAL763ER: Is the 787 going to be at Le Bourget in June?
32 bj87: That was my thought as well. I wonder if people at Boeing are still able to look at a calendar and write down an EIS date without crying, knowing tha
33 parapente: Reply 30.Good link. That is what testing brand new aircraft and engines is all about.It is an "elecrtic" aircraft so good to see these elements tested
34 CHRISBA777ER: As I've said until i'm blue in the face (pardon the pun) - AF/KL will go 789 and A359/10 combo. Might be a few 788s in there as well. BA and LH are p
35 scbriml: Confirmation, of a sort, from Boeing. Although the "at least" part is a little loose. http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=12360639
36 HBGDS: FT link on the full conference: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1af9af16-0...3f-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz17iK0wM5Q
37 bmacleod: LH never flew the 767 which the 787 is a replacement, so they might just go for the A350. BA has a big 767 fleet so the 787 will suit them well.
38 DocLightning: Ouch. Good one, but... that was harsh. I know, right? Even the 737. I think an A320 would be fugly... because the A320 is fugly. NW's "Bowling Shoe"
39 CHRISBA777ER: IIRC the 789 is an ideal A343 replacement, no?
40 A380900: Sorry but is the 787 flying again? And if not, wouldn't we like to see it flying before we discuss any EIS dates? Whatever Boeing says?
41 sspontak: 767 looking great in LH livery. The 787 would also look great in the LH livery. Hopefully LH will someday fly the 787 in much greater number than this
42 TheRedBaron: If I knew this info back in 2006 I would have ordered one, and then collected a juicy penalization for non-delivery in 2010... Maybe there is still ti
43 Stitch: I believe it is. I still think LH is going to stay "all Airbus" (see below) and buy the A350-900 and (later) the A350-1000, but I also think that the
44 ER757: Forgive me if I don't get too excited - as others have said, the little boy has cried wolf too many times. As someone who has had the pleasure of seei
45 BrouAviation: I think 'Boeing Fan' is not doing justice to KL fleet management. They recently ordered more Airbusses, they have flown DC-8, DC-9, Fokkers, Embraers
46 blueflyer: Right now, EIS is more like "date by which another delay will be announced" than anything else...
47 328JET: Not in my eyes. I mostly prefer the sleek look. - Best looking B777 is the B77W - Best looking A340 is the -600. - I prefer a B753 over the B752 - Th
48 yowza: hahahahah. This thread should have been locked after your post because no other will be able to compare! Without sounding disrespectful I have a very
49 pylon101: Guys, As I don't have time to go through 787 testing threads, could anyone be so kind to explain where we are in FAA test schedule. - how many hours/c
50 328JET: To come back to the new EIS of summer 2011. I doubt it. My bet is EIS in one year from now. And i have the feeling that the fire on board is not the o
51 cloudyapple: I've heard Lufty has been "forced" to take B748s as compensation for Connexion being cancelled...
52 petera380: Must be time to drop the "Dream" in Dreamliner?
53 tarheelwings: Care to share what you base this on? Is that "feeling" based on inside information or is it just wishful thinking?
54 keesje: Stitch, KLM ordered 787-9s. In the interview a few weeks ago the KLM CEO mentioned the it twice, "we ordered a number of 787-9s via a leasing company
55 328JET: It is a bad feeling based on the history of the B787 since roll-out and its delays. Wishful thinking? I wish that my company would still operate a ha
56 RedChili: My personal take on this: Boeing does not have an official schedule yet, due to a lot of circumstances. I believe they simply do not know exactly wha
57 kiwiandrew: 2012 ? Is that a Freudian slip or your assessment of a more likely EIS . I wonder what flow on effect this is going to have on the -9 . Don't forget
58 RedChili: Ah! It's too late in the evening for me! Of course I meant 2011. I'll correct the other post.
59 ER757: Then you should go see an eye doctor and get an exam, you need new glasses - LOL Beauty is a subjective thing, isn't it. I agree about the 77W being
60 328JET: Could you please look WHO you quote. I did not write that - it was somebody else...![Edited 2010-12-10 13:50:50]
61 Stitch: I understand that, but RBS' order was for 787-8s and RBS was the lessor KL was going to get their 787s from. So it's likely KL ordered the 787-8 and
62 keesje: I would be surprised. The article mentions they were intended to replace the 10 MD11's. Those seat 285 passengers and do a lot of cargo. If I google
63 LJ: RBS cancelled the order because RBS decided that aircraft leasing wasn't a line of business they wanted to support (as far as I can understand it the
64 LJ: Am I the only one missing the official confirmation from Boeing?? Boeing has said nothing so far. The only thing we have is a report about something B
65 JRadier: Not drop, but adapt. In some circles the 787 is known as the 'keep-on-dreaming-liner"
66 Chiad: I think the B787 will suffer 8 delays in all, thus the B787. My bet is EIS close to April 2012, or about 4 years delayed.
67 Rheinbote: Hardly. Inventory until the end of this year is 30 minus three that have been written off. An Italian union snippet leaked that Boeing has asked Alen
68 Stitch: Maybe KL decided to downsize their MD-11 ops. Anyway, you are correct it has become irrelevant as KL is willing to wait to get deliveries of the 787-
69 PlanesNTrains: You may be right, and we can all fall at your feet as the next CaptainX. I'm curious, though, exactly what makes you choose April over March, May, 20
70 tdscanuck: They don't need to, although they'd certainly want to for customer satisfaction reasons. Some Douglas models have major rain-in-the-plane issues that
71 PM: How can a minority be huge? But, as it happens, its a minority of which I am a member.
72 328JET: Me too. The B787-9 might look better, but the nose still has the shape of a bird which crashed into a wall.
73 PlanesNTrains: Odd description. I am not overly thrilled by the looks of the -8 in pictures, but every time it's flown over my house I think it has looked great. Th
74 astuteman: Presumably assemblies that Aleina ship in November and December of 2011 won't end up in customers hands in that year.... Count me in that number too
75 JoeCanuck: That should happen after scare the hell out of boyfriend with shotgun milestone.
76 Excalibur: I really hope that this bird wont be late anymore ! And I have no doubt that it will be VERY successfull. I have to say that I tend to prefer the stre
77 tootallsd: So basically you're into length. I agree on the 77W. I think the 346 is a step too long and it looks a bit ungainly. The 753 is good, I really like t
78 astuteman: In England old Chap? Perish the thought.... Anyway, he supported my football team, and drank the same beer as me - how bad could he be? Rgds
79 DocLightning: It is predicated on the fact that every single major delay prediction from 2005 until now has been correct... and often worse than expected. Let's no
80 art: Well, the new target for EIS is reported as being June but... http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs...=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest ... so Bo
81 JoeCanuck: No worries at all...selective memory is a wonderful thang....ain't it...? Back on track...I find the silence a bit frustrating even though I understa
82 Rheinbote: Only three quarters of the original flight test program have been completed in 12 months. The original flight test program schedule did not account f
83 kmz: this 'rain' issue keeps popping up and i am trying to understand at what point this would be a specific B787 issue.. If I understand correctly, - it "
84 tdscanuck: Do we actually know for sure if this whole event is under NTSB jurisdiction? If so, that would explain the lack of all details (all that stuff is sup
85 ER757: Absolutely - until you've seen it in person, you don't get a true perspective. Some who have seen it "live" still think it's ugly though, so to each
86 ikramerica: Airbus and ERJ too. I always found it odd that this wasn't considered a problem worthy of fixing. Some people freak out when they get into a plane in
87 pylon101: tdscanunck, thanks for updating me. I appreciate this.
88 Daysleeper: I hate the way she looks in every picture taken post 2003......
89 tdscanuck: FYI, you can track hours/cycles in the table at the top left here: http://787flighttest.com Tom.
90 pylon101: Tom, this is smart I added the link to favorites. As to 787 looking - it looks completely different from various angles. Sometimes it's like 737, some
91 Aesma: Am I the only one to find ironic that every information on the 787 seem to come from France lately ? Every delay so far was the last delay...
92 tsugambler: They should have put the cockpit on the upper deck, like on the 747. Now it looks like it has this huge, sloping, bald forehead... like me. This is N
93 JoeCanuck: I find it interesting that the supposedly feuding A & B are practically the only ones not taking pot shots at the other guys for screwing up. One
94 PM: I've always assumed that there is the greatest mutual respect between Airbus and Boeing. Both have astonishing achievements to be proud of and both m
95 EPA001: Airbus placed the cockpit where it is best suited, just above the floor level of the lower deck. It guarantees the roomiest cockpit there is, fits th
96 Aesma: Baldness is more common (and accepted, I'm bald too) than having a hump, I feel !
97 tdscanuck: Like you said, "There but for the grace of God go I." That's been my experience too. In addition to respect for each other, the aircraft design commu
98 PITingres: As per BoeEngr's posts here on a.net. I don't doubt that Airbus engineers feel the same way, whether they have identified themselves here or not.
99 ER757: I don't know - I miss the winglets of the 744. Goes back to when it was first introduced and the first time I was one come into ORD where I was worki
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