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CZ To Start AKL Service From April 2011  
User currently offlineplanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1675 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7854 times:
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China Southern Airlines will run three flights between Auckland and Guangzhou (via Melbourne) each week, offering 88,000 more seats annually than are currently available.

The service is due to start by April 30, 2011.

Source: http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/4450389/New-service-gives-tourism-boost

This wraps up quite a stellar year for New Zealand, having secured many new long-haul flights including:

JQ (AKL-SIN)
CO (AKL-HOU)
CI (AKL-BNE-TPE)
D7 (CHC-KUL)

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2921 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7715 times:

Interesting choice of stop over point (MEL). Certainly seems to show that they are not overly confident about filling seats straight off on China-NZ. and want to provide some added demand via Australia.

Im guessing this could be the start of their planned upgrade of MEL to double daily frequencies (currently daily).


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6408 posts, RR: 38
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7671 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 1):
Interesting choice of stop over point (MEL). Certainly seems to show that they are not overly confident about filling seats straight off on China-NZ. and want to provide some added demand via Australia.

I think the latter point is the one which is more important. NZ has apparently been thinking about AKL-CAN - something I believe would be done by them direct. But of course, it's best to test out a route first.. Those wanting the flexibility will continue to go via SIN or HKG.. But now it gives Skyteam a trans Tasman flight!



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineplanemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1675 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7556 times:
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Quoting NZ107 (Reply 2):
But now it gives Skyteam a trans Tasman flight!

Actually, once AR joins Skyteam, customers will have the option of MEL-AKL on CZ or SYD-AKL on AR.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 2):
NZ has apparently been thinking about AKL-CAN

But yet again, just like HOU, they were too late and missed out on a lucrative opportunity. What a shame. NZ management need to start being more aggressive.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 1):
Interesting choice of stop over point (MEL).

It certainly is. Originally the flight was supposed to stop in BNE.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7538 times:

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 3):
Actually, once AR joins Skyteam, customers will have the option of MEL-AKL on CZ or SYD-AKL on AR.

And CI via BNE....


User currently offlinegardermoen From Australia, joined Jul 1999, 1520 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7176 times:

Judging by the flight times (source airlineroute.net), I get the feeling that MEL capacity is not increasing, because the existing daily timings in/out of MEL are only different by an hour.

CZ305 CAN2300 – 1030+1MEL1200+1 – 1735+1AKL 333 257
CZ306 AKL1905 – 2020MEL2150 – 0625+1CAN 333 146


I have always thought that given their existing timings they can easily squeeze in a New Zealand turnaround, as the aricraft is otherwise sitting in MEL for some 11 hours.


User currently offlinecanyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4892 times:

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 3):
But yet again, just like HOU



While we would love to begin offering Southwest Airlines connections to Auckland through HOU (Houston Hobby Airport), I assume you meant IAH, Continental/United hub at George Bush Houston Intercontinental Airport.


User currently offlineac033 From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2008, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4760 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 2):
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 2):
NZ has apparently been thinking about AKL-CAN - something I believe would be done by them direct.
Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 3):
Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 3):
But yet again, just like HOU, they were too late and missed out on a lucrative opportunity. What a shame. NZ management need to start being more aggressive.

NZ had a long talk with the local government about starting to CAN, but local government refused to offer slot in order to give CZ opportunities to fly this route. It had nothing to with their late decision.


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2921 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4723 times:

Quoting ac033 (Reply 7):
NZ had a long talk with the local government about starting to CAN, but local government refused to offer slot in order to give CZ opportunities to fly this route. It had nothing to with their late decision.

Proof?

NZ struggles to make far larger markets work, in PEK and PVG , let alone CAN. I think its more to do with the fact NZ had no chance of making it work than a refusal by local authorities. Bi-lateral agreements would have the final say on what was, and wasnt allowed, especially based on your comments regarding competitive favouritism reasons. I just do not buy it.


User currently offlineac033 From Hong Kong, joined Jun 2008, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4693 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 8):

This is one of the fellow that is working CAAC that told me that.
And this is not the first time things happened in CAN, Singapore airline ask for double daily slot on SIN-CAN-SIN instead giving it to SQ i believe CZ got it.

Correct me if i am wrong

AC33


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2921 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4666 times:

Quoting ac033 (Reply 9):
Correct me if i am wrong

Not saying your wrong but without definative proof, its not really creditable, and goes down in the rumour column 

If true, its certainly very anti-productive for CAN as a destination, but as I have no idea of the workings of business, or life for that matter, in communist China. I can only go off the usual system employeed by other countries, following the implementation process of bi-lateral aviation agreements, which would usually state what was or what was not allowed, it would seem hard to justify not allowing a route based on competitive grounds, especially given the diplomatic protests that may occur.

As said before though, I hardly see how NZ thinks it will get CAN to work, with PEK and PVG not exactly stellar performers. Stranger things have happened though  


User currently offlinezkojh From China, joined Sep 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4364 times:

Another airline across the tasman , now more of a ''bloodbath'' considering that the china market is doing ok for NZ and they want to increase there flights to PEK and PVG - which are both direct.. think they are doing something right.. just LACK of aircraft. but if they go to CAN this would put presure on HKG to break.

and as for CO/UA thats given NZ some breather space because the new service is delayed because of the 787's cockups..



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4351 times:

Quoting zkojh (Reply 11):
Another airline across the tasman , now more of a ''bloodbath'' considering that the china market is doing ok for NZ and they want to increase there flights to PEK and PVG - which are both direct.. think they are doing something right.. just LACK of aircraft. but if they go to CAN this would put presure on HKG to break.

The "break" only applies to bottom feeders

CX/KA already offers excellent connections to all major markets in China from NZ. KA alone serves 18 destinations in mainland China (exc HKG). Anyone loyal to Star can access the bulk of China via PEK, ICN, NRT, BKK, and SIN.

The service quality of both NZ and CX are far above that of CZ. The only ones who want this route are (1) the ones who are actually bound for CAN, thus making the nonstop meaningful, (2) price hawks, and (3) SkyTeam loyalites


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4164 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 12):
The only ones who want this route are (1) the ones who are actually bound for CAN, thus making the nonstop meaningful

This is a one-stop flight via MEL. Do holders of a PRC passport need a transit visa for Australia?


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3323 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4161 times:

Quoting gardermoen (Reply 5):
Judging by the flight times (source airlineroute.net), I get the feeling that MEL capacity is not increasing, because the existing daily timings in/out of MEL are only different by an hour.

CZ305 CAN2300 – 1030+1MEL1200+1 – 1735+1AKL 333 257
CZ306 AKL1905 – 2020MEL2150 – 0625+1CAN 333 146


I have always thought that given their existing timings they can easily squeeze in a New Zealand turnaround, as the aricraft is otherwise sitting in MEL for some 11 hours.

I think you are spot on.
MEL capacity is unchanged, but what the schedules do cater for is overnight flight between CAN and MEL, which then open up all the connections over the CAN hub. It also means CZ is the first chinese airline to get it's foot in the door.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4807 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4147 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 13):
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 12):
The only ones who want this route are (1) the ones who are actually bound for CAN, thus making the nonstop meaningful

This is a one-stop flight via MEL. Do holders of a PRC passport need a transit visa for Australia?

yes



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4147 times:

Quoting ac033 (Reply 7):
NZ had a long talk with the local government about starting to CAN, but local government refused to offer slot in order to give CZ opportunities to fly this route. It had nothing to with their late decision.

I thought NZ only had 7 weekly flights to Mainland China. I find that hard to believe when neither PVG nor PEK is daily yet.

Quoting cchan (Reply 13):
This is a one-stop flight via MEL. Do holders of a PRC passport need a transit visa for Australia?

Other than extending the SkyTeam network here I don't see how this routing would work given all Chinese passport holders will need to apply for an Australian transit visa. As a standalone sector, the Tasman is competitive enough.


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2921 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4115 times:

The transit visa requirement will be a hard one to overcome I would suspect. All that hassle of applying for 2 visas, one into Australia and one into NZ.

What does it say about the MEL route though, as they have upgraded frequency recently but are already adjusting times to accomodate a NZ service in those added flights. Wont that see a net decline in available seats dedicated to MEL service? Interesting move.


User currently offlinezkojh From China, joined Sep 2004, 1663 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4089 times:

''I thought NZ only had 7 weekly flights to Mainland China. I find that hard to believe when neither PVG nor PEK is daily yet.

at the moment PVG is 3 a week and PEK is 2 a week to do any more increase into the china market which they would lke to do would require at least one more 772 which they haven't got yet. most of NZ longhaul routes are anywhere between 6-14 hrs long which puts preesure on the current fleet.



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlinegardermoen From Australia, joined Jul 1999, 1520 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3932 times:

Quoting cchan
This is a one-stop flight via MEL. Do holders of a PRC passport need a transit visa for Australia?

I don't think they will need visas for just being on transit in a sterile area of the airport, unlike the USA.

What about Emirates who fly en route to NZ from MEL/SYD/BNE - I highly doubt all nationalities will require an Australian visa just because their aircraft stops here for an hour or so.


User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3772 times:

Quoting gardermoen (Reply 19):
I don't think they will need visas for just being on transit in a sterile area of the airport, unlike the USA.

What about Emirates who fly en route to NZ from MEL/SYD/BNE - I highly doubt all nationalities will require an Australian visa just because their aircraft stops here for an hour or so.

You would think but unfortunately at embarkation port check-in agents will need to check they have a transit visa in their passport before a boarding pass can be issued. Australia authority does not check it again in Australia though. A lot of hassle althought the visa is free.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4807 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3753 times:

Quoting gardermoen (Reply 19):
Quoting cchan
This is a one-stop flight via MEL. Do holders of a PRC passport need a transit visa for Australia?

I don't think they will need visas for just being on transit in a sterile area of the airport, unlike the USA.

What about Emirates who fly en route to NZ from MEL/SYD/BNE - I highly doubt all nationalities will require an Australian visa just because their aircraft stops here for an hour or so.

For Australia the answer is yes. Now there are visas and there are visas.... Certain nationalities (mostly Western Countries) have relaxed needs when going to Oz... These can usually be done easily online and an ETA is issued. Other nationalities need the whole shebang of a paper visa stuck in their passport. Most of the pax on EK transiting Oz are NZers (only nationality to not need to apply for a visa/authorisation).



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3627 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 21):
Most of the pax on EK transiting Oz are NZers (only nationality to not need to apply for a visa/authorisation).

I would imagine in the case of CZ, most transit passengers will be PRC passport holders.


User currently offlineluftaom From Australia, joined May 1999, 426 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3593 times:

Do they really need a visa for transitting at SYD/MEL? It's not like they have to go through passport control - just a security check to get back onto the airside departures level.

User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3585 times:
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Quoting luftaom (Reply 23):
Do they really need a visa for transitting at SYD/MEL?

Many nationalities require a transit visa for Australia , even for a same-aircraft through service , it is a complete absurdity but it has been that way for a long long time .



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