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Former Airlines And Their 747s  
User currently offlineGoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12856 times:

What happened to CO's 747s? Also, America West, you'd think they'd have gone to US Air. PanAm? AA? I can't think of others I'm sure various airlines acquired them all but which airline took which? I'm including the SPs. thanks.

There might've been a topic on this already or info somewhere but i don't have the time to look it up.


From the airport with love
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWhappeh From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 12864 times:

America West got rid of their 747s in the mid 90s, if not earlier... WAY before the talk with US Airways even was a remote possibility.


-Travel now, journey infinitely.
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 12824 times:

Quoting Whappeh (Reply 1):
America West got rid of their 747s in the mid 90s, if not earlier... WAY before the talk with US Airways even was a remote possibility.

IIRC, they were retired during their CH. 11 bankruptcy in the early 90s.

N531AW:

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User currently offlinehomsar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 12751 times:

Speaking of Continental 747s, I was watching Jurassic Park the other day, and during the scene towards the beginning where they're having lunch discussing the park's potential, there is a slide show going on in the background. For a very brief second, you can see a 747-400 in Continental Airlines colors. Obviously an artist's rendering, but I'm assuming that CO must have at least been looking at the 744 for such a drawing to have been made.


I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlineCargoLex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1277 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 12722 times:

I would guess that many of these older aircraft went first to second-tier operators and then filtered into the cargo world, and finally the desert or the scrapper.

CO never had any 747 built after 1972, and those planes are almost certainly all retired or scrapped by now.

Virtually all of AA's 747s were -100's, so they probably also went to second pax operators and then filtered down through cargo or second-tier carriers, ultimately into the desert. However, one of AA's 741's is with NASA as the shuttle carrier, and one of it's SP's, acquired used and described to me by a former AA executive as "real beaters" is still around as P4-FSH, with Earnest Angley Ministries.

I believe several of Pan-Am's SP's still exist. I think UA picked up all of them in one fell swoop in 1986, then after that they went their separate ways. The SP's uniqueness has probably helped keep those frames alive. At least one is with NASA as the SOFIA mobile observatory.

Most of PA's other frames were -100s and -200s, almost all gone by now, I'm sure.

Just picking one at random reveals a trail of second-tier* operators:

N770PA, msn: 19660, a -100 delivered to PA on May 31, 1970. After that it was with Cargolux for a couple of months beginning in 1988. They probably planned to convert it but didn't. They did re-register it as LX-GCV. Then it was leased to Lionair (not the Indonesian carrier), Air France, and again to Lionair (probably seasonal), then to Corsair on a French reg for a couple of years, then to Air Afrique in 1994. They returned it to Corsair in 1998 and then it went for a short lease to Air Mediteranee in 2000 for a short lease before finally heading to the desert, where it no doubt will never leave.

*I wouldn't call AF or CV second-tier operators, but then, they were among the earliest to use or manage this frame after it left a long career at PA.

[Edited 2010-12-12 11:54:54]

User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12456 times:

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 4):
I believe several of Pan-Am's SP's still exist.

The former N540PA went to UA (N149UA) then to Tajik Airbefore becoming a private a/c (Sultan Of Brunei and Bahrain Imiri Fli and currently part of the Las Vegas Sands fleet:

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User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25838 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12408 times:

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 4):
CO never had any 747 built after 1972, and those planes are almost certainly all retired or scrapped by now.

A few of the 13 747s (6-100s and 7-200s) operated by CO had 3 or 4 operators before being acquired by CO.


User currently offlineCargoLex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1277 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12345 times:

Yeah, I believe they were brought in mainly as a result of the People Express buyout (they had eight 747s).

Despite being one of the launch customers for it, CO decided they'd rather use the DC-10 as their main wide-body shortly after the 747 came into wide use and I think they ditched their new-build 741s by 1975.

Most of the People Express 747s were ex-Alitalia or Qantas, but most of them had seen many operators before going to CO. At least one of them had at least 11 previous operators before CO.

[Edited 2010-12-12 14:22:27]

User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2460 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12290 times:

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 7):

Despite being one of the launch customers for it, CO decided they'd rather use the DC-10 as their main wide-body shortly after the 747 came into wide use and I think they ditched their new-build 741s by 1975.

The 1973 oil crisis was the death knell for CO's richly-configured 747-124s.


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4564 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 12111 times:

National Airlines (the original) N77773 a 747-135

To NW as N620US


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[Edited 2010-12-12 16:20:33]

User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5200 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 12042 times:

Quoting homsar (Reply 3):
Speaking of Continental 747s, I was watching Jurassic Park the other day, and during the scene towards the beginning where they're having lunch discussing the park's potential, there is a slide show going on in the background. For a very brief second, you can see a 747-400 in Continental Airlines colors. Obviously an artist's rendering, but I'm assuming that CO must have at least been looking at the 744 for such a drawing to have been made.

No. That was a pic of a CO A300 and CO 747-100/200 not 744.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2964 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11452 times:
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Who took Varig's 747's? Weren't some of them built for RG? Even the 744, which I think they just had one.


The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20782 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11320 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 11):
Who took Varig's 747's? Weren't some of them built for RG? Even the 744, which I think they just had one.

NZ ended up with PP-VPI as ZK-SUH, still flying for them, I believe.


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User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11320 times:

I just finshed cutting up TWA 747-100 and AerLingus airframe components for scrap last month. N133TW, N93104, EI-BED and another TWA 747 whose reg escapes me. Rudders, Ailerons, Flaps, Landing gears, Nose cowls, cargo doors...all gone now...sad
TWA N93104's rudder
EIBED rudder


User currently offlinehomsar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 10657 times:

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 10):

No. That was a pic of a CO A300 and CO 747-100/200 not 744.

The plane certainly had a stretched upper deck (I did a freeze frame). Couldn't tell if it had winglets or not, as the image wasn't that clear.



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10519 times:

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 4):
Virtually all of AA's 747s were -100's, so they probably also went to second pax operators and then filtered down through cargo or second-tier carriers, ultimately into the desert. However, one of AA's 741's is with NASA as the shuttle carrier, and one of it's SP's, acquired used and described to me by a former AA executive as "real beaters" is still around as P4-FSH, with Earnest Angley Ministries.

With the exception of the two 747SP's that AA acquired from TWA in the mid 1980's, ALL of their 747's were the -100 series. During their time many of the AA 747's seemed to have been converted by AA to cargo and continued flying with AA up unitl 1984-1985 I believe. After that they moved on to UPS. I may be wrong but I believe UPS ended up with most if not all of the ex AA 741's and kept them up until they retired them.

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 4):
CO never had any 747 built after 1972, and those planes are almost certainly all retired or scrapped by now.

I can't believe that ALL of the 741's and 742's acquired by CO in the People Express merger were built before 1972.

Quoting Goblin211 (Thread starter):
Also, America West, you'd think they'd have gone to US Air.

HP retired the 747 in 1991/92 and the merger was 13 years later in 2005.

FX1816


User currently offlineKGRB From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 721 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8668 times:

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 15):
I may be wrong but I believe UPS ended up with most if not all of the ex AA 741's and kept them up until they retired them.

I'm not sure, but I do know that one of the ex-AA 741's ended up with NASA for the Space Shuttle program.

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User currently offlineEI747SYDNEY From Ireland, joined Oct 2005, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7779 times:

Man it makes me sad thinking of the history those 747s had in their life with Aer Lingus now being cut up. We had 3 of them and one was used on the Papal visit of Pope John Paul to Ireland in 1979 (EI-ASI) St Patrick. They were also used on the transatlantic route to the US. Many Irish emigrants left the country in the 1980s on them for a better life.

There is a photo on the database of one of them being cut up in the desert  

Sidenote: I would love to see an Aer Lingus A380  



''Live life on the edge, Live each and every day like it's your last, Hell you only live once''
User currently offlineCharlieNoble From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7771 times:

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 13):
I just finshed cutting up TWA 747-100 and AerLingus airframe components for scrap last month. N133TW, N93104, EI-BED and another TWA 747 whose reg escapes me. Rudders, Ailerons, Flaps, Landing gears, Nose cowls, cargo doors...all gone now...sad

Memories...EI-BED was the first airliner I ever flew on, in the summer of 1987!

I still have some grainy photographs (taken with one of those "110" cameras) of the "ED" by the cockpit windows...


User currently offlineEI747SYDNEY From Ireland, joined Oct 2005, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7689 times:

Quoting CharlieNoble (Reply 18):
I still have some grainy photographs (taken with one of those "110" cameras) of the "ED" by the cockpit windows...

Stick them up if you get the chance. Would be great to see them.

I also flew one of the Shamrock 747s back in the 80's. I was in the cubs and we took a one way to Shannon fronm Dublin and bused it back. Those were the days!!!!  



''Live life on the edge, Live each and every day like it's your last, Hell you only live once''
User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6062 times:

Quoting KGRB (Reply 16):
Quoting FX1816 (Reply 15):
I may be wrong but I believe UPS ended up with most if not all of the ex AA 741's and kept them up until they retired them.


I'm not sure, but I do know that one of the ex-AA 741's ended up with NASA for the Space Shuttle program.

Oh I totally forgot about that one, thanks!!   How could I have forgotten about the one AA 741 that went to NASA, though, I see it daily.

FX1816


User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2690 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5966 times:

My guess is that they may have been either too big for some of CO's routes, they were considered to be too fuel thirsty, or the routes they were on weren't profitable. I never figured out why CO quit going to Australia myself. CO seemed to view the 747s as too big for their routes in the 1970s and replaced them with DC-10s. It seemed like they favored the DC-10 more.


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlineCargoLex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1277 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5766 times:

Quote:
I can't believe that ALL of the 741's and 742's acquired by CO in the People Express merger were built before 1972.

Actually upon checking in more detail, one was built in 1973 (for Qantas). The rest were 1970-1972 builds.

PE did have one newer 742, built in 1979 for Braniff (1) and later leased to PE after Braniff's demise, but that went to Northwest in 1984.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25838 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4907 times:

Quoting FX1816 (Reply 15):
I may be wrong but I believe UPS ended up with most if not all of the ex AA 741's and kept them up until they retired them.

I believe only 6 of AA's 16 741s were later operated by UPS. UA wound up with 5 ex-AA 741s. Photos below (registered N153UA through N157UA).


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VS also operated one ex-AA 741 during the 1990s. The "NO WAY BA/AA" decal was slightly ironic considering the original operator.


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User currently offlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4858 times:

Both Ansett Australia 744s leased from SQ are now flying for Air Pacific though still ultimately owned by SQ. These were SQ's original 744s. I believe the 5 743s were returned to SQ and all except one have since been scrapped.


717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,310,320/1,332/3,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,SF3,AT
25 American 767 : TWA had 3 747 SP-31s, delivered in the late 70s and in service with the airline till the mid 80s. I know two of them went to American (1987-1992) and
26 soon7x7 : Lets see the pix...I was able to save many artifacts from EI-BED...including the name, "St. Kieran" and some of the Shamrock V/fin panels...rudder ri
27 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : The third one went to the Dubai Air Wing where it spent over 20 years. It's now with the Las Vegas Sands hotel/casino group. View Large View MediumPh
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