USXguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 830 posts, RR: 6 Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10207 times:
dang, i just saw the seat map on Seat guru.. 17" wide seats in coach now?!? OUCH. those are just as small as CRJ seats!
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 9876 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting FlySSC (Thread starter): Its also Air France's 61st B777 and its 36th B77W. 12 additonal aircraft are on order.
3 more will be delivered between January and April 2011.
Seems that two of them will be deployed on CDG-GIG replacing 2 B744.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
N593HA From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 152 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 9565 times:
Congratulations to AF & Boeing.
And just out of curiosity and sorry for my ignorance, how many Airbus aircraft (all models) have been delivered so far in total to AF?
(Also despite my question, please do not turn this thread into another Boeing vs. Airbus thread! - there have been already too many of those here on a.net!)
AZA330 From Italy, joined Feb 2004, 287 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7306 times:
Quoting USXguy (Reply 2): dang, i just saw the seat map on Seat guru.. 17" wide seats in coach now?!? OUCH. those are just as small as CRJ seats!
Ha... funny thing is that, according to seatguru.com, the seats on AirFrance Embraer fleet are 17.3 vs. the 17.0 of the 777... 3-4-3 configuration on a 777 seems very crowded to me...
ChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1605 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 6683 times:
Quoting N593HA (Reply 5): And just out of curiosity and sorry for my ignorance, how many Airbus aircraft (all models) have been delivered so far in total to AF?
cactus1549 From France, joined Jun 2010, 14 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5555 times:
Quoting N593HA (Reply 5): And just out of curiosity and sorry for my ignorance, how many Airbus aircraft (all models) have been delivered so far in total to AF?
Air France Airbus fleet consisted of 18 A318, 45 A319, 58 A320, 24 A321, 15 A332, 18 A343 and 4 A380.
But some of those were not bought as AF birds (Air Inter for example), that 200 number for Boeing seems to be new planes from the factory only, because with the same link there are more than 200 Boeing (starting with 99 747 !). Also, AF had 707s and 727s but they're not there.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
FlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7312 posts, RR: 61 Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3773 times:
Quoting Aesma (Reply 11): But some of those were not bought as AF birds (Air Inter for example), that 200 number for Boeing seems to be new planes from the factory only, because with the same link there are more than 200 Boeing (starting with 99 747 !). Also, AF had 707s and 727s but they're not there.
Actually if you count all the B707, B727, B737, B767, B747-100/200/300/400, B777 AF has operated, you'll find much more than 200 boeing, and in any case, more Boeing than Airbuses ...
I guess that "200" is the number of Boeings bought new directly from Boeing.
kl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 4977 posts, RR: 14 Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3256 times:
Quoting USXguy (Reply 2): dang, i just saw the seat map on Seat guru.. 17" wide seats in coach now?!? OUCH. those are just as small as CRJ seats!
Quoting AZA330 (Reply 6): Ha... funny thing is that, according to seatguru.com, the seats on AirFrance Embraer fleet are 17.3 vs. the 17.0 of the 777... 3-4-3 configuration on a 777 seems very crowded to me...
I don't care about width, but legroom. How much is that, 32'' ?
" The European consumer would crawl naked over broken glass to get low fares." Michael O'Leary
FlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7312 posts, RR: 61 Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3192 times:
Quoting USXguy (Reply 2): dang, i just saw the seat map on Seat guru.. 17" wide seats in coach now?!? OUCH.
Quoting AZA330 (Reply 6): Ha... funny thing is that, according to seatguru.com, the seats on AirFrance Embraer fleet are 17.3 vs. the 17.0 of the 777... 3-4-3 configuration on a 777 seems very crowded to me...
Quoting kl911 (Reply 14): I don't care about width, but legroom. How much is that, 32'' ?
AF has 17" width and 32" in Y in the B77W.
EK has 17" and 34" pitch in its B777
LH has 17" nad 31" pitch in the A346
EI has 17" and 31" pitch in its A333
IB has 17" and 32" pitch in its A346
US has 17" and 31" pitch in its A333
AZ has 17" and 32" pitch in its B777
SA has 17" and 33" pitch in its A346
RJ has 17" and 33" pitch in its A342
EY has 17" and 31,5" pitch in its B77W
NZ has 17,1" and 31 to 33" pitch in its B777
QF has 17,2" and 31" pitch in its B744
AA has 17,2" and 30" pitch in is B763
klkla From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 803 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2997 times:
ATWOnline reports that this latest AF 777-300ER is the first with the new lie-flat business seats. Are there any pictures of new seats out yet?
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21464 posts, RR: 24 Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2938 times:
Quoting Aesma (Reply 11): Also, AF had 707s and 727s but they're not there.
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 13): Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
But some of those were not bought as AF birds (Air Inter for example), that 200 number for Boeing seems to be new planes from the factory only, because with the same link there are more than 200 Boeing (starting with 99 747 !). Also, AF had 707s and 727s but they're not there.
Actually if you count all the B707, B727, B737, B767, B747-100/200/300/400, B777 AF has operated, you'll find much more than 200 boeing, and in any case, more Boeing than Airbuses ...
I guess that "200" is the number of Boeings bought new directly from Boeing.
Boeing's orders and deliveries data shows the following AF deliveries (with 77W total increased by one to cover the most recent 200th delivery which isn't in the Boeing summary yet). This doesn't include any aircraft acquired through mergers (e.g. UTA) or those that may have been leased from other sources.
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 15): Quoting USXguy (Reply 2):
dang, i just saw the seat map on Seat guru.. 17" wide seats in coach now?!? OUCH.
Quoting AZA330 (Reply 6):
Ha... funny thing is that, according to seatguru.com, the seats on AirFrance Embraer fleet are 17.3 vs. the 17.0 of the 777... 3-4-3 configuration on a 777 seems very crowded to me...
Quoting kl911 (Reply 14):
I don't care about width, but legroom. How much is that, 32'' ?
AF has 17" width and 32" in Y in the B77W.
EK has 17" and 34" pitch in its B777
LH has 17" nad 31" pitch in the A346
EI has 17" and 31" pitch in its A333
IB has 17" and 32" pitch in its A346
US has 17" and 31" pitch in its A333
AZ has 17" and 32" pitch in its B777
SA has 17" and 33" pitch in its A346
RJ has 17" and 33" pitch in its A342
EY has 17" and 31,5" pitch in its B77W
NZ has 17,1" and 31 to 33" pitch in its B777
QF has 17,2" and 31" pitch in its B744
AA has 17,2" and 30" pitch in is B763
etc ...
So what's the point with AF ?
The point is that 10-abreast 777s are just more cramped and uncomfortable than 9-abreast 777s (and 10-abreast 747s). You also can't compare seat widths in sources like SeatGuru as there's no standard measurement for seat width. Does it include the gap betwen the seat cushions? Does it include the armrests? Why anyone would choose a 10-abreast 777 when the majority of 777 operators (including all 777 operators based in North America) offer much more civilized 9-abreast seating is beyond me. I like flying AF (and just flew on 2 AF A321s yesterday LHR-CDG-GVA) but I refuse to fly on any 10-abreast 777s, regardless of carrier, unless there are absolutely no other alternatives.
PacificClipper From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 311 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2897 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17): Why anyone would choose a 10-abreast 777 when the majority of 777 operators (including all 777 operators based in North America) offer much more civilized 9-abreast seating is beyond me.
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17): I refuse to fly on any 10-abreast 777s, regardless of carrier, unless there are absolutely no other alternatives.
Spot on. When you have to fly in economy, every single inch of personal space is precious, both width wise and pitch wise. Of course the average flyer may not make their airline selection based on this criteria but savy travelers or road warriors surely do.
FlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7312 posts, RR: 61 Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2857 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17): The point is that 10-abreast 777s are just more cramped and uncomfortable than 9-abreast 777s (and 10-abreast 747s). You also can't compare seat widths in sources like SeatGuru as there's no standard measurement for seat width. Does it include the gap betwen the seat cushions? Does it include the armrests? Why anyone would choose a 10-abreast 777 when the majority of 777 operators (including all 777 operators based in North America) offer much more civilized 9-abreast seating is beyond me. I like flying AF (and just flew on 2 AF A321s yesterday LHR-CDG-GVA) but I refuse to fly on any 10-abreast 777s, regardless of carrier, unless there are absolutely no other alternatives.
I fully agree with that.
Any Y class is uncomfortable anyway, on any airline and hat's why I never travel in coach.
My question was why is this subject "Oh-those-cramped-17"-seats-in-Y-on-AF" coming back over and over in any post concerning AF while I never read anything about the same "cramped 17" Y seats" on LH, AZ, or EY ...
Oh, well ...
FlySSC From France, joined Aug 2003, 7312 posts, RR: 61 Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2819 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17): This doesn't include any aircraft acquired through mergers (e.g. UTA) or those that may have been leased from other sources.
This confirms what I said above that AF has operated much more than 200 Boeings and probably more Boeings than Airbuses if you add the leased and/or UTA aircraft (B742, B743, B733, B762ER, B744, B772ER, B77W)
TGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 868 posts, RR: 23 Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2780 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17):
The point is that 10-abreast 777s are just more cramped and uncomfortable than 9-abreast 777s (and 10-abreast 747s). You also can't compare seat widths in sources like SeatGuru as there's no standard measurement for seat width. Does it include the gap betwen the seat cushions? Does it include the armrests? Why anyone would choose a 10-abreast 777 when the majority of 777 operators (including all 777 operators based in North America) offer much more civilized 9-abreast seating is beyond me. I like flying AF (and just flew on 2 AF A321s yesterday LHR-CDG-GVA) but I refuse to fly on any 10-abreast 777s, regardless of carrier, unless there are absolutely no other alternatives.
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 19): I fully agree with that.
Any Y class is uncomfortable anyway, on any airline and hat's why I never travel in coach.
My question was why is this subject "Oh-those-cramped-17"-seats-in-Y-on-AF" coming back over and over in any post concerning AF while I never read anything about the same "cramped 17" Y seats" on LH, AZ, or EY ...
Oh, well ...
I fully agree with Viscount724, what counts is not the cushion width itself, but the complete width including armrests, and with 10 abreast 777 you have paper thin armrests leading you to be in permanent contact with your neighbours.
Plus, if you are in a window seat, you also touch the wall with your shoulder on the wall side.
Thi may be the reason why AF always comes back on this subject, because it is really more unconfortable than other configs with identical seat widths, but more global width for each passenger.
Now I disagree with FlySSC regarding “Any Y class is uncomfortable anyway, on any airline”.
At least this is not the case for Y onboard the SQ 380 (I tested only the upperdeck seats, but lower deck seems also comfortable).
Not tried other airlines 380 yet I guess it is probably be the same.
Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
Icarus75 From France, joined Oct 2003, 767 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2707 times:
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 19): Any Y class is uncomfortable anyway, on any airline and hat's why I never travel in coach.
But 10 abreast on a 777 seems really more cramped and you feel more incomfortable!
Having flown AF 777 in Y on LAX-CDG, i've made my choice : no more AF on this route!!!!!
On a side note : you're lucky if you can afford to travel in Y+ or business : it's not the case for everyone!
AABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 448 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2443 times:
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 15): AF has 17" width and 32" in Y in the B77W.
EK has 17" and 34" pitch in its B777
LH has 17" nad 31" pitch in the A346
EI has 17" and 31" pitch in its A333
IB has 17" and 32" pitch in its A346
US has 17" and 31" pitch in its A333
AZ has 17" and 32" pitch in its B777
SA has 17" and 33" pitch in its A346
RJ has 17" and 33" pitch in its A342
EY has 17" and 31,5" pitch in its B77W
NZ has 17,1" and 31 to 33" pitch in its B777
QF has 17,2" and 31" pitch in its B744
AA has 17,2" and 30" pitch in is B763
QR with 9 abreast has 18.9" and 34" pitch in its Boeing 777s.
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