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PTV's On 747 Classics  
User currently offline747fan From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1185 posts, RR: 1
Posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8526 times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv0vtoe_hnA
This video taken back in 1993 of a BA 747-100 shows that it was equipped with PTV's (which must've been quite new at the time).
Which brings me to my questions...how many carriers back in the 1990's retrofitted their 747 classics with PTV's? Other than BA, I know Virgin Atlantic (was it only their -200's or did the VS 741's also have them?) did it but can't think of any others off the top of my head. Also was BA the only airline to install PTV's on 747-100's?
Needless to say I was quite surprised when the video panned around the cabin and a 741 that must've been 22-23 years old at the time had PTV's.
*Side note: I know the title of the video says its a 747-200 but the engine sound is undoubtedly that of Pratt & Whitney JT9D's, which only their -100's had (video has awesome sound by the way!).

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineHOONS90 From Malaysia, joined Aug 2001, 3001 posts, RR: 53
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8489 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Cathay Pacific had them on their 747-200s and 300s, I believe. This was in the late 90's.


The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlineje89_w From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 2360 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8484 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Cool video! Qantas also had PTVs in their B743s.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Glenn White



Apparently a few other airlines had them as well, on B743s.

http://www.airliners.net/search/phot..._id+desc&page_limit=15&thumbnails=


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8408 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8391 times:

NW put a PTV system into some old 747 classics in the 90s. I remember playing Streetfighter II on one. You had to swipe a credit card, but there were no charges as it was experimental (and apparently did not go into the full fleet). I think they kept it around for some years. Note that today, in 2010, DL's 744s do not have PTVs   Arguably, their IFE was better 16-17 years ago.

User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6445 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8371 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 3):
Note that today, in 2010, DL's 744s do not have PTVs

This will soon change, however a,s DL will be installing the Panasonic eX2 with Eco 9i Integrated Smart Monitors in Y.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20394 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 8251 times:

Quoting 747fan (Thread starter):
Needless to say I was quite surprised when the video panned around the cabin and a 741 that must've been 22-23 years old at the time had PTV's.

I'm surprised as well. I flew BA LAX-LHR on a 741 within about a year prior, and don't recall PTVs at all. Heck, the airshow on the overhead monitors on KLM I flew around the same time seemed so futuristic.

I counted the take-off in that video at about 55 seconds. I still remember a guy sitting behind me on our return on a then brand-new 744 saying "fly, baby, fly!" at about that long into our take-off roll.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinebananaboy From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 1574 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8106 times:

Virgin Atlantic still boast that they were the first airline to offer all passengers, regardless of cabin choice, a TV of their own to watch.

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/tridi...ages/factsheet_ife_tcm5-426058.pdf

Mark



All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3037 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 8088 times:

We must remember that yes, these are PTVs, but these cannot compare to the PTVs of today. They probably had few channels, no games, etc..and you definitely could not stop, FF , and rewind.


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6445 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 8050 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 7):
We must remember that yes, these are PTVs, but these cannot compare to the PTVs of today. They probably had few channels, no games, etc..and you definitely could not stop, FF , and rewind.

I wonder, who made the first personal entertainment system on airliners? I believe that the first AVOD system was the P@ssport system by Sony Transcom (now part of Rockwell Collins), however, I don't know who made the first non-AVOD PTV system.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offline747fan From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1185 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 8048 times:

Thanks for the feedback so far! Yes, those PTV's definitely are primitive to many in use today.

Quoting bananaboy (Reply 6):
Virgin Atlantic still boast that they were the first airline to offer all passengers, regardless of cabin choice, a TV of their own to watch.

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/tridi...ages/factsheet_ife_tcm5-426058.pdf

Interesting...so if their claim is true looks like the first PTV's were introduced in 1991 with 6 channels.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
I counted the take-off in that video at about 55 seconds. I still remember a guy sitting behind me on our return on a then brand-new 744 saying "fly, baby, fly!" at about that long into our take-off roll.

Gotta love the long takeoff roll (partly due to their high 165-170kt. takeoff speed) of a heavily-loaded 747, no matter if a -100 or -400. But a 741 would have a 9-10,000 ft. run even on a "short" 7-8 hour hop across the Atlantic. And then their sluggish climbout, which this video depicts fairly well.


User currently offlineN747PA From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7887 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 8):
however, I don't know who made the first non-AVOD PTV system.

Air Vision?

http://apex.aero/AboutAPEX/Awards/Ou...wardWinners/tabid/183/Default.aspx


User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1900 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7855 times:

Very interesting catch there! I'm sure it was a very basic system and the screens looked very small. I guess it shouldn't be too surprising though, the PTV technology has been around since '88-'89ish. It seemed specifically BA were early users of the technology in their premium cabin, they used to have a large selection of those mini-cassettes you could put in and watch. I know Delta used that system too and Delta even installed PTV's in the premium cabins of their L-1011's! Very interesting though, I'm not sure who could lay claim to installing the first PTV's throughout economy, though a lot of airlines experimented. I even read an article once that talked about a system that AA used in the late 60's or 70's where they installed TV screens in the consol/arm rest area facing backwards between their first class seats so the two seats behind would have their own screen. The same movie was played on all screens though but apparently they couldn't get the sound and video to sync on all the screens so they scrapped it, but it was an interesting read none-the-less.

User currently offlineSR 103 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1740 posts, RR: 39
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7851 times:

From experience, I can list the following:

Swissair had them in F/J on the 743 and 743 Combi
Cathay Pacific had them in F/J on the 742
Singapore Airlines had them in F/J on the 742 and 743
British Airways had them in F/J on the 742
Virgin Atlantic had them in J/Y+/Y on the 742
KLM had them in J on the 742SUD
Northwest had them in J on the 742
QANTAS had them on the 743 in J/Y


User currently offlineEdina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 743 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7683 times:

Emirates also had a PTV system fitted to all new delivery A310-300's & A300-600's.......I remember the in charge cabin crew saying to me on a LGW-DXB flight that they deemed a 25% failure rate to be acceptable!


Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 7429 times:
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The video is definitely a 747-100, BA had PTVs in all their -100/-200s but only in Club World and First Class. The WT cabin had the old projector screens to the end of their lives... including quite a few non-viewing seats where the screens were not visible and crew had to do manual demos alongside the safety vide for the people in these seats.

The seats in the video are from the late 1980s before the Club World cradle seat was introduced in (I think) 1993.

You can see these seats in this training mockup;
http://www.filmlocations-uk.com/AI3/DSCN3929.JPG


User currently offlineCoal From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1994 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7352 times:

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 15):
The seats in the video are from the late 1980s before the Club World cradle seat was introduced in (I think) 1993.

You can see these seats in this training mockup;

How come it's got the 777 bins?

Cheers
Coal



Nxt Flts: VA SYD-CBR-SYD | VA SYD-OOL-SYD | JQ SYD-MEL | VA MEL-CBR-SYD | DL SYD-LAX-ATL-MIA | B6 FLL-DCA-BOS | DL BOS-L
User currently offlinebigvince76 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7330 times:

I flew with VS in April 1992 LHR-NYC-LHR. We had PTVs both ways. They had very small screens with blue control buttons on the right hand side and the films were on a loop and there were I think six channels. This was a school exchange trip and I remember my mate Dom was very successful at removing his non-working screen from its housing to see if he could re-connect it, he failed!

I always recall this trip when I am sitting on-board a UA 744 18 years on, funny that.


User currently offlinenycbjr From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7184 times:

Quoting Coal (Reply 15):

Wow great catch! Must have been for a film or some kind of fit check? odd none-the-less!


User currently offlineTR1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 265 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7150 times:

At NWA the system was called WorldLink and was installed in a number of 747-100/200s around 1992. I don't recall if any of the 747-400s had them. WorldLink was supposed to be interactive, with movies, games, shopping etc, similar to what's on the A330 today (except for the shopping part). The monitors were the small, first generation ones. The system wasn't very reliable and we spent a good deal of the flight trying to reset customer seat monitors and offering apologies. It was one of the few times that I've had the usual quiet Japanese customer yell at me! After a year or so the WorldLink was removed and the aircraft reverted back to the traditional mainscreen IFE system.

I still have my WorldLink access card which as a Flight Attendant I had to swipe on the central control unit prior to each flight.


User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 7003 times:

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 14):

The video is definitely a 747-100, BA had PTVs in all their -100/-200s but only in Club World and First Class. The WT cabin had the old projector screens to the end of their lives... including quite a few non-viewing seats where the screens were not visible and crew had to do manual demos alongside the safety vide for the people in these seats

I remember being one of the non viewing seats on a 747 classic but we didn't get a demo, you had to lean into the aisle to watch the safety video on the big screen, same with the film. This may have been partly due to the fact that a passenger had sat in the FA jumpseat and she was trying to get him into his proper seat!

Virgin also tried going down the same route as Northwest with early interactive credit card PTVs when they first got their A340s and 744s in 93/94 but had so much trouble with with the system they deactivated the interactive side and just kept the screens for movies, I think they had games as well at that time

[Edited 2010-12-13 12:03:14]

User currently offlinewilld From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6918 times:

VS was most definitely one of the first carriers to offer PTV's throughout- in fact they ran a huge advertising campagin around this- I can still remember being in London c.1991 and seeing an advert for VS on the side of a bus advertising this.

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 19):
Virgin also tried going down the same route as Northwest with early interactive credit card PTVs when they first got their A340s and 744s in 93/94 but had some much trouble with with the system they deactivated the interactive side and just kept the screens for movies, I think they had games as well at that time

I am not so sure. VS have not replaced hte IFE on the 343s since they were delivered and G-VAST/XLG/TOP are flying around with the original system they had installed also. There is a credit card system for the skyphone which is located on the reverese of the remote control. Everything else has been free- there are interactive games and having flown on G-VTOP last week can tell you that they are very old school (think Pacman!)....although the games came be played in two player mode against other pax- which c.1994 must have been rather advanced!


User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6789 times:

G-VTOP/VAST/VXLG were delivered with Odyssey IFE which was not what the first 744s had or the first A340s


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Virgi...d=23107f2a8510e38e16ac845cfc4e7d95

G-VFAB and her original PTVs, now replaced with V:Port, with I think a credit card slot on the PTV and wall mounted phones

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Virgi...d=3a83df3950435bc71690e416e2a3ee7d

G-VTOP and the Odyssey PTVs that she was delivered with with in seat phones.

Bear in mind that these planes were delivered only two years apart yet have quite very different IFE systems and PTVs, makes you realise how much of an innovater VS was back in the 1990s!


User currently offlinewilld From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6400 times:

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 21):
G-VTOP/VAST/VXLG were delivered with Odyssey IFE which was not what the first 744s had or the first A340s


http://www.airliners.net/photo/Virgi...d=23107f2a8510e38e16ac845cfc4e7d95

G-VFAB and her original PTVs, now replaced with V:Port, with I think a credit card slot on the PTV and wall mounted phones

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Virgi...d=3a83df3950435bc71690e416e2a3ee7d

G-VTOP and the Odyssey PTVs that she was delivered with with in seat phones.

Bear in mind that these planes were delivered only two years apart yet have quite very different IFE systems and PTVs, makes you realise how much of an innovater VS was back in the 1990s!

I stand corrected although the 343s were only delivered with Odyssey per TOP/VAST/XLG.

Interesting as I thought that all LHR based planes had Odyseey before V:Port.

[Edited 2010-12-13 12:53:44]

User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4844 times:

BA's 747 classics lasted into the 2000s and at the end were equipped with the original flat beds in F and the cradle seats in J. That was the last round of upgrades that these aircraft got, and were the same as across all of BA's long-haul fleet, including early delivery 777s. These products were fairly modern and certainly included PTVs (albeit primitive ones). Y did retain fairly old-fashioned interiors, though not especially more dated than a 744 or 763 (but very different from a 772). I didn't realize the previous-generation F and Y had PTVs too, though, making BA a very early adopter. Presumably this means most (all?) 744s were delivered with PTVs.

On another note, compare the J configuration with what you get today in W. The soft product may have been very different but still....

Quoting Coal (Reply 15):
How come it's got the 777 bins?

It's a training mock-up, i.e., made up of whatever bits and pieces are around. It doesn't have to look like the actual cabin of any particular aircraft, it's just a stand-in for a generic BA aircraft cabin.



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 665 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4778 times:

I never flew on one, but I believe Qantas had issues with the PTV's on the 747-300's right up until retirement.

25 AeroWesty : Not the one I flew in 1992 LHR-LAX, at least in Y.
26 1stfl94 : BA 744s were delivered with PTVs in First and I think in Club as well but World Traveller didn't get PTVs until the end of 1990s
27 BOACCunard : I meant in F and J. Definitely no PTVs in Y until the 772.
28 N747PA : I recall seeing a working PTV mockup at Rockwell Collins for the BA TES system around 1998. Nothing like seeing 100's of PTV monitors (they all had t
29 1337Delta764 : Wasn't BA's original PTV system made by GEC-Marconi?
30 Post contains links and images N747PA : I don't know, but this is definitely TES: View Large View MediumPhoto © Peter Duckworth AKA the Hughes Avicom APAX-150
31 747fan : Thanks again for all the good feedback! I'm glad I started this thread as up until now I haven't done much research on here regarding IFE & PTV's.
32 Post contains images Vasu : Managed to find this system of a trial(?) - NWA aircraft.
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