Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
What's Up W/ BDL's Super Wide Runway (6/24)?  
User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2505 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10823 times:

Just got back from a trip to BDL for the umpteeth time and finally remembered to post a thread about its super-wide 6/24 runway. Our landing was fine but for whatever reason the individual in control apparently got lazy with the pedals and was swerving to and fro. Fortunately, we had just landed on runway 6 which measures an awesome 200' wide, giving our 733 plenty of room to play.

I know that BDL used to play host to a number of widebodies "back in the day" but can't figure out why they'd need a strip so fat - anyone have insight into BDL history?

777fan


DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedvincent From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1745 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10594 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

BDL is an alternate diversion airport for many other nearby airports (BOS, JFK, etc) and also is home to the CT ANG. Being the largest airport in the state of Connecticut means needing the most capable runway in times of emergency or other reasons. As long as 747s or other fat aircraft are going into the Northeast, BDL will have a nice, wide and long swath of pavement for a primary.

Now, if you want a really wide runway, head just 20 miles north up to Westover ARB, where you can find a 300 foot wide strip of asphalt for your landing pleasure...



From the Mind of Minolta
User currently offlinecloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10537 times:

Isn't 60m (200ft) the standard width for a Code F runway? What super wide?


A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineCairnterriAIR From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10361 times:

The weather up here this past week was a bit nasty.....lots of wind, and today...serious wind and downpours. So chances are the original poster may have experienced a nasty crosswind on landing at BDL. (It was hard enough driving on I-91 today with the weather the way it was.)

BDL's runway is comparable to any of the other large airports up here. Big aircraft such as A300's, AN-124's, and 767's are regular visitors, along with large airliners both scheduled and diversions. Plus with harsh New England weather playing a part in operations....the long and wide runways help keep traffic moving.

[Edited 2010-12-12 22:27:53 by ManuCH]

User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2505 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10053 times:

Quoting CairnterriAIR (Reply 3):
The weather up here this past week was a bit nasty.....lots of wind, and today...serious wind and downpours. So chances are the original poster may have experienced a nasty crosswind on landing at BDL. (It was hard enough driving on I-91 today with the weather the way it was.)

Nah, I actually arrived on Saturday; partly cloudy, high overcast, temp about 40 and almost no wind.

Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 2):
Isn't 60m (200ft) the standard width for a Code F runway? What super wide?
Quoting CairnterriAIR (Reply 3):
Big aircraft such as A300's, AN-124's, and 767's are regular visitors,

Yes, for Code F (Group V) but doesn't the 744 and everything smaller than it in Group IV? Granted, the runway's construction probably predated the An-124, but when was the last time BDL hosted a C-5 or other Code F/Group V aircraft?

Quoting dvincent (Reply 1):
Now, if you want a really wide runway, head just 20 miles north up to Westover ARB, where you can find a 300 foot wide strip of asphalt for your landing pleasure...

Almost allows for landing in any direction!

777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3147 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9879 times:

Quoting dvincent (Reply 1):
Now, if you want a really wide runway, head just 20 miles north up to Westover ARB, where you can find a 300 foot wide strip of asphalt for your landing pleasure...

Didn't someone once demonstrate a STOL takeoff along the width of one of these runways? That would have been funny to see!

-Rampart


User currently offlinerl757pvd From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4692 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 9671 times:

Quoting CairnterriAIR (Reply 3):
BDL's runway is comparable to any of the other large airports up here. Big aircraft such as A300's, AN-124's, and 767's are regular visitors,
Quoting 777fan (Reply 4):
Yes, for Code F (Group V) but doesn't the 744 and everything smaller than it in Group IV?

The Design standard for a Boeing 747-400 and anything smaller is 150 ft wide (Group V)

Many airports in the northeast used to have 200 ft wide runways (PVD's was 200 ft up until 2000 or so), chances are that when the runway comes up for rehabilitation the FAA will evaluate the cost for 150 vs 200 (will be in the millions) and I wouldnt be shocked to see it go down to 150, esp since the A380 can still use 150 if need be. Or also the CT ANG may fork over the cost difference if they want to keep it at 200.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21677 posts, RR: 55
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9623 times:

Quoting 777fan (Thread starter):
Our landing was fine but for whatever reason the individual in control apparently got lazy with the pedals and was swerving to and fro.

Considering you had no idea what was going on in the cockpit, that's a rather unduly harsh comment, isn't it?

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3045 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9577 times:

Quoting 777fan (Reply 4):
but when was the last time BDL hosted a C-5 or other Code F/Group V aircraft?

They had an AN-124 up there just after Thanksgiving as I recall.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 4):
Yes, for Code F (Group V) but doesn't the 744 and everything smaller than it in Group IV?

No. According to Boeing, the 744 is a Group V type, but is Code E. The 748 is a Group VI type and Code F.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/faqs/aircraftdesigngroup.pdf

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
Considering you had no idea what was going on in the cockpit, that's a rather unduly harsh comment, isn't it?

I was thinking the same thing...


User currently offlinedvincent From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1745 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9486 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting rl757pvd (Reply 6):
Many airports in the northeast used to have 200 ft wide runways (PVD's was 200 ft up until 2000 or so), chances are that when the runway comes up for rehabilitation the FAA will evaluate the cost for 150 vs 200 (will be in the millions) and I wouldnt be shocked to see it go down to 150, esp since the A380 can still use 150 if need be. Or also the CT ANG may fork over the cost difference if they want to keep it at 200.

Runway 6/24 was completely rebuilt in mid-2009 and still retains its 200 foot width.



From the Mind of Minolta
User currently offlinerl757pvd From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4692 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 9370 times:

Quoting dvincent (Reply 9):
Runway 6/24 was completely rebuilt in mid-2009 and still retains its 200 foot width

The case can be made for it from a system perspective... the funding was probably lined up in 2007/2008 before the FAA really started cracking down.

If the A380 operators demand the extra 50 ft then they can pay for the extra $10 million in costs... that money could be going to projects at other airports with more "real" demand (considering the A380 can use 150 in a bind).



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6811 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 9351 times:

Quote:
Quoting 777fan (Reply 4):
but when was the last time BDL hosted a C-5 or other Code F/Group V aircraft?

They had an AN-124 up there just after Thanksgiving as I recall.

and there was an AF A380 in September.

AF A380 At BDL (by sectflyer Sep 12 2010 in Civil Aviation)



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineCanadi>n From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9212 times:

This thread reminds me of an old sketch on "Royal Canadian Air Farce" which took place in the cockpit of an Air Canada (who else?) plane. The crew brings the plane in for a landing and a screeching halt, the pilot and co-pilot overexaggerating the quick stop and heavy braking necessary. The pilot says, "Wow! Is this like the shortest runway we've ever landed on?" Then the co-pilot looks wa-aaay off to the left and then wa-aaay off to the right and says, "Yeah! But is it EVER WIDE!"


Orange is Beautiful
User currently offlineVmcavmcg From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9178 times:

IIRC, Bradley was also a satellite base for Westover AFB and an alternate recovery base for B-52s in case the "balloon went up" The 200' wide runway enabled the aircraft to land without any problems.

This is going back quite a while and I am sure it's still being funded for that in mind. Although the BUFF left Westover ages ago, the dispersal facilities are still being funded.


User currently offlinedvincent From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1745 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 8174 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

It was only a scant few years ago when BDL had regularly scheduled 747 cargo ops in addition to the occasional An-124. 200 foot wide runways are not unusual things, so it shouldn't be all that exciting or notable that BDL has one. Given that BDL is the primary diversion airport for New York and Boston, it will always be a little "overbuilt" relative its usual demand.


From the Mind of Minolta
User currently offlineseven3seven From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 318 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 8174 times:

Yes I think its completely arrogant and naive of a person to say they were "lazy on the rudders".

You have no clue what is going on up there. Maybe you should have asked.



My views are mine alone and are not that of any of my fellow employees, officers, or directors at my company
User currently offlineindolikaa From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7754 times:

Quoting seven3seven (Reply 15):

Wow.


A completely relevant post in full compliance with the spirit and the law of the forums rules, too. Because all you can say after reading that exchange is...wow.

I'll be extremely careful making any comment whatsoever that might infringe on the belief that my right-seater was picture perfect on his last touchdown. God forbid if he's a poster here and I don't know it. Apparently expressing an opinion on the performance of other is expressly prohibited unless the facts are fully briefed prior.


He missed the centerline by at least 30 feet...

[Edited 2010-12-13 12:56:49]


Vote for Pedro
User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3147 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7710 times:

Quoting seven3seven (Reply 15):
Yes I think its completely arrogant and naive of a person to say they were "lazy on the rudders".

You have no clue what is going on up there. Maybe you should have asked.



I'm no pilot, but I don't think the statement was meant to be derogatory, or at least in a mean spirit. Pilots themselves quip about "any landing you can walk away from is a good one...", but nobody else can crack a joke?

-Rampart


User currently offlineCairnterriAIR From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7286 times:

seven3seven....you seriously need to relax. His comment won't bring the world to a crashing halt. Get over it and don't be so thin-skinned.

User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3045 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7195 times:

Quoting CairnterriAIR (Reply 18):
seven3seven....you seriously need to relax. His comment won't bring the world to a crashing halt. Get over it and don't be so thin-skinned.

Neither will the comments of those that disagree.  

Semi-related to the OP, what do we have to do to get BDL to replace that horrendously tattered and torn American flag on the old terminal? Either replace it or remove it. It looks awful.


User currently offlinedvincent From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1745 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7177 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting catiii (Reply 19):
Semi-related to the OP, what do we have to do to get BDL to replace that horrendously tattered and torn American flag on the old terminal? Either replace it or remove it. It looks awful.

The flag was removed when Terminal B was closed earlier this year. It no longer hangs below the old control tower. Perhaps I'll have to take a post-closing terminal B shot for posterity...



From the Mind of Minolta
User currently offlineseven3seven From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 318 posts, RR: 23
Reply 21, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7159 times:

I dont think I was being derogatory either. The words I used were adjectives to describe the poster and seem relevant.

Arrogant meaning thinking one knows so much about the subject they can easily label the pilot as being lazy.

Naive meaning they think thats all there was to it.

Why not ask about the landing so he can learn from it instead of armchair quarterbacking on here?



My views are mine alone and are not that of any of my fellow employees, officers, or directors at my company
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3045 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7159 times:

Quoting dvincent (Reply 20):
The flag was removed when Terminal B was closed earlier this year. It no longer hangs below the old control tower. Perhaps I'll have to take a post-closing terminal B shot for posterity...

Parts of it were still up on Thanksgiving Day. It looked shredded. My little girl even commented on it.


User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3211 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7033 times:

737s have a few degrees of play in their main gear shimmy dampers which allows some castering. This may explain the slight lateral movement of the aircraft as it goes down the runway. I've noticed the same as the OP when riding in the back of 737s. The further aft you sit in the cabin, the more noticeable it is. More here:

http://www.b737.org.uk/landinggear.htm

Question For 737 Mechanics. (by Musang Jan 2 2004 in Tech Ops)?threadid=76457&searchid=76478&s=737+landing+gear+caster#ID76478

As far as the runway being 200' wide; that's nothing unusual at all. However, 150' wide runways are more common in the US. But most of the 150' wide runways at air carrier airports have 25' shoulders on each side. The shoulders are not load bearing, they are meant to provide a paved surface under the outboard engines on 4 engine jets to reduce the potential for FOD ingestion.

[Edited 2010-12-13 14:17:43]


FLYi
User currently offlinedvincent From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1745 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6921 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting catiii (Reply 22):
Parts of it were still up on Thanksgiving Day. It looked shredded. My little girl even commented on it.

I was there a few weeks ago and didn't see any remains of it left, though admittedly I wasn't looking too closely at it.



From the Mind of Minolta
25 rampart : I still think he was cracking a joke, not being arrogant, not being naive, not wanting a flight lesson. I could be wrong. -Rampart
26 Viscount724 : Most major commercial airport runways in Canada (even at many smaller airports) are 200 ft. wide, while 150 ft. is more common in the US and Europe,
27 RJLover : Up here in YYJ, our main runway (09/27) is 7000' x 200'.....[Edited 2010-12-13 22:41:29]
28 777fan : Regarding the OP, my comment about the "laziness" on the pedals was most definitely not meant to be an insult and I'm not about to offer an apology f
29 Post contains images catiii : Looks like you offered an apology
30 Revelation : Having grown up in the State of Connecticut, I'd bet the "other reasons" are that a paving contractor was "good friends" with the Governor.
31 MikeCT : Are there any other 300 foot wide runways at airports open to the public?
32 Post contains links rampart : Here's one that's 1000' wide, but you'll need floats. http://www.airnav.com/airport/S60 Must be some side grass strips out there, too. Swerve around
33 Post contains images MikeCT : Haha... 3000' X 1000'. That's about as close to a square runway as you're going to get!
34 Post contains images 777fan : Nah, me thinks there's a difference in apologizing for actually making the comment (active) and apologizing for the message recipients' response to t
35 Grid : Pot meet kettle. How do you know the 777fan didn't know what was going on? It's funny to accuse someone of not knowing the situation when it appears
36 Post contains links ADent : From: Longest/widest Runway? (by PolAir Oct 26 2001 in Civil Aviation) Shuttle Landing Strip at KSC (KTTS) is 15,000 x 300 - as are several military
37 Mir : That would still be an insult. Because he wasn't in the cockpit. I have no idea what was going on either, but I'm not the one making claims against t
38 Post contains images PITrules : Perhaps the widest paved runway in the world was RAF Manston. In this photo the current marked runway is 200' wide. Looks like the original WWII era l
39 777fan : I think there's a big difference between labeling the crew "lazy" (which I didn't) and describing their use of the pedals as "lazy" which implies tha
40 Grid : Pilots are a protected class on airliners.net. I avert my eyes at the airport when I see one and on this forum when I suspect a poster is a pilot.
41 Post contains links Viscount724 : Runway 02/20 at Ulyanovsk Vostochny airport (ULY) in Russia (about 400 nm east of Moscow) is quoted as 16,405 x 344 ft. (5,000 x 105 m.) Several sour
42 Post contains links catiii : Fair point, but I think it can be easily interpreted both ways: the way you explain, and a questioning of the PIC's skill and competence based on how
43 Mir : If that's what you meant to say, fine, but I hope you realize that when you say "the pilot got lazy", it reads very differently. -Mir
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
What's Up With CLE Terminal A posted Wed Apr 28 2010 17:13:33 by WROORD
What's Up With This 9E CRJ-900? posted Wed Apr 28 2010 14:39:57 by skoker
LHR Webcam - What's Up With It? posted Mon Apr 12 2010 10:02:17 by virginblue4
What's Up With Delta.com? posted Sat Mar 13 2010 16:07:23 by JBAirwaysFan
What's Up With N589NW? posted Sat Feb 20 2010 20:55:50 by ElBandGeek
What's Up With Virgin America These Days? posted Sat Feb 6 2010 00:12:33 by SurfandSnow
What's Up At JFK Tonight 12/1 posted Tue Dec 1 2009 16:33:14 by Corey07850
BAA Buys Up Houses For Third Runway... posted Wed Oct 21 2009 08:38:35 by Fcogafa
What's Up With EI's Website? posted Tue Oct 13 2009 13:55:00 by SK736
What's Up With Spanair's New Livery? posted Tue Oct 13 2009 12:55:49 by Vasu