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Canada And Egypt Sign A New Air Agreement  
User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4673 times:

Hey guys , as i posted in another thread , it looks like Egypt and Canada have secretly signed a new Bilateral Air Agreement back in November/2010 , does any one have any details on that agreement ?

EGYPT
1. Date of Agreement

Legal Title: Agreement between the Government of the Arab Republic of Egypt and the Government of Canada on Air Transport

November 10, 2010


Agreement signed (ad referendum), Applied administratively
2. Other Instruments

December 15, 1987


Exchange of Notes (designation of Air Canada)

July 11, 1995


Diplomatic Note - (designation of Egyptair)

December 5, 2006


Letter from the Minister (designation of Egyptair Cargo)
3. Characterization of Bilateral Agreement

A. Grant of Rights:


As specified in the Annex.

B. Designation:


Multiple, Air Canada, Egyptair and Egyptair Cargo.

C. Tariffs:


Double disapproval.

D. Capacity:


Free determination (no unilateral action).
4. Routes and Associated Rights

The routes and associated rights have been agreed ad referendum and remain confidential until definitively entered into force.


The agreement will allegedly give EgyptAir access to Toronto after they pulled out of Montreal last year .

[Edited 2010-12-13 06:49:02]


A346,A343,A342,A332,A333,A310,A300,AB6,A319,A320,A321,B741,B744,B777,B767,B732,B735,B727,B707,B757,MD80,F-70,E-170,B738
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSU184 From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 236 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4640 times:

Quoting MSYYZ (Thread starter):
after they pulled out of Montreal last year .

AFAIK MS didn't pull out of Montreal, its a seasonal summer only schedule.


User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4593 times:

Quoting SU184 (Reply 1):
AFAIK MS didn't pull out of Montreal, its a seasonal summer only schedule

Hi SU184 , MS started YUL service back in January/2001 on a twice weekly basis via JFK using a B772 . Starting , June/1st/2004 , they upgraded the route to a direct Summer only terminator CAI-YUL flight with a mix of B772 and A342 . Sadly the route was discontinued in 2010 .

What i would like to know , will this new Air Agreement allow EgyptAir to access only YYZ or will they be allowed to access Montreal as well ? It would be lovely to have a YYZ year-round service and a Summer only YUL service  Big grin

[Edited 2010-12-13 07:31:06]


A346,A343,A342,A332,A333,A310,A300,AB6,A319,A320,A321,B741,B744,B777,B767,B732,B735,B727,B707,B757,MD80,F-70,E-170,B738
User currently offlinePolaris From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 1143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4425 times:

The agreement was not signed in secret as the original poster suggests. Where would you get that impression?

User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4338 times:

Quoting Polaris (Reply 3):
The agreement was not signed in secret as the original poster suggests. Where would you get that impression?

Maybe he found this agreement on Wikileaks.  


User currently offlineRP TPA From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4329 times:

This agreement will obviously allow Air Canada to add their code on their *A partners to/from Egypt. Or perhaps fly their own planes into CAI, but that probably wont happen until the 787's start arriving, if at all.

User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4261 times:

Quoting Polaris (Reply 3):
The agreement was not signed in secret as the original poster suggests. Where would you get that impression?



Of course they did not sign it secretly .
I used the word "secretly" cause neither part announced it publicly . Ususally when signing a new Bilateral Air Agreements , the news make it somehow to the media . Exactly like what happened when Qatar signed its agreement with Canada just a few weeks ago .

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 5):
This agreement will obviously allow Air Canada to add their code on their *A partners to/from Egypt. Or perhaps fly their own planes into CAI, but that probably wont happen until the 787's start arriving, if at all.

There are quite a few possibilities :
* AC to fly YUL-CAI while MS serves MS flies year-round to YUL
* As You mentioned , AC to code-share with MS on their flights to/from Canada .

[Edited 2010-12-13 13:00:49]


A346,A343,A342,A332,A333,A310,A300,AB6,A319,A320,A321,B741,B744,B777,B767,B732,B735,B727,B707,B757,MD80,F-70,E-170,B738
User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2491 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4239 times:

Be it as it may, i still believe the 77W is too much metal for CAI-YYZ, even on a 3 weekly basis. No way in hell they will fill up 49 business class seats with paying customers! MS should put the A332 on this route, if it wants to make money!

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3000 posts, RR: 27
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4208 times:

Exactly as I predicted a few weeks back in the thread dealing with the Canada-UAE dispute. New/additional rights so far for QR and MS. Watch for TK and AI (and maybe PK) to follow. All of these will eat into EK's YYZ traffic through DXB.


Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4128 times:

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 6):
There are quite a few possibilities :
* AC to fly YUL-CAI while MS serves MS flies year-round to YUL
* As You mentioned , AC to code-share with MS on their flights to/from Canada .

I don't know what is wrong with A.Net !!! Everytime i edit a post , things are messed up , i meant to say :

There are a few possibilities :
* AC to fly YUL-CAI while MS takes on YYZ-CAI
* MS to fly YYZ-CAI year-round and serves YUL on a Summer only basis
* Or as you mentioned , AC to code-share with MS on all their flights between Canada and Egypt .

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 7):
Be it as it may, i still believe the 77W is too much metal for CAI-YYZ, even on a 3 weekly basis. No way in hell they will fill up 49 business class seats with paying customers! MS should put the A332 on this route, if it wants to make money!

I remember when they started YUL back in 2001 , they were using B772 , then they started using a mix of B772 and A342 . Same thing applies to YYZ , where they can deploy the B773 in the busy Summer season and use the A332 during low season .



A346,A343,A342,A332,A333,A310,A300,AB6,A319,A320,A321,B741,B744,B777,B767,B732,B735,B727,B707,B757,MD80,F-70,E-170,B738
User currently offlineYYCowboy From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 147 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4001 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 8):
All of these will eat into EK's YYZ traffic through DXB.

I agree with this policy, alowing home country carriers access to Canadian ports.
The world needs options to EK.



Its hard to soar like an eagle when you're flying with turkeys
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3963 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 8):
Watch for TK and AI

There isn't much that Indian carriers want. They already have rights to fly into Canada 35 times a week of which only 14 weekly are being used (Indian carriers can fly a maximum of 14 weekly flights to YYZ) and neither of the carriers have any plans in the near future to start YVR, YUL et al. So unless Kingfisher Airlines wants to fly to Canada, India -Canada bilaterals will stay as it is.

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 8):
New/additional rights so far for QR

No relation whatsoever, even if EK had a cozy relation with AC/Canada QR would have got 3 weekly rights to YYZ in any case. It would have been a snub had QR got more than 3 weekly access. I suspect the same for MS as well that the EK -Canada dispute has got nothing to do with granting rights to MS.

[Edited 2010-12-13 21:02:43]


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineYYCowboy From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 147 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3955 times:

I realy do think the 787 will be a game changer for Canadian traffic, from many different global points.


Its hard to soar like an eagle when you're flying with turkeys
User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3807 times:

Quoting YYCowboy (Reply 12):
I realy do think the 787 will be a game changer for Canadian traffic, from many different global points.

When are they due now after all the delays ?



A346,A343,A342,A332,A333,A310,A300,AB6,A319,A320,A321,B741,B744,B777,B767,B732,B735,B727,B707,B757,MD80,F-70,E-170,B738
User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2491 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3562 times:

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 13):
When are they due now after all the delays ?

Only the Man above knows. I would put it in 2014, at the earliest.

Quoting ojas (Reply 11):
They already have rights to fly into Canada 35 times a week of which only 14 weekly are being used (Indian carriers can fly a maximum of 14 weekly flights to and neither of the carriers have any plans in the near future to start <acronym title=" vancouver="" international="" cyvr="" canada="" british="" columbia="">YVR, YUL et al. So unless Kingfisher Airlines wants to fly to Canada, India -Canada bilaterals will stay as it is.

Actually, the Canada-India bilateral, as far as YYZ/YUL are concerned, is capacity restricted, not frequency restricted.

http://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/doc.php?did=146&lang=eng

By the looks of it, each airline (limited to AC, AI and 9W) can carry a maximum of 2100 seats/week from YYZ/YUL to India or back.

They can also fly to YVR or YEG from India a maximum of 2x a week.

9W is also restricted in terms of 5th freedom traffic, to a maximum of 50% of the total seats operated from or to BRU.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2010-12-20 18:02:03]


us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineHECA From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3435 times:
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Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 9):
There are a few possibilities :
* AC to fly YUL-CAI while MS takes on YYZ-CAI
* MS to fly YYZ-CAI year-round and serves YUL on a Summer only basis
* Or as you mentioned , AC to code-share with MS on all their flights between Canada and Egypt .



Since the timetable for the CAI-YYZ flight by MS is already loaded in GDS I believe option 2 will commence in S11. Perhaps in the coming months option 3 will happen. Nonetheless, CAI is not mentioned by AC in their recent S11 timetable.

In the mean time, MS increased its plan to YYZ from three to four weekly flights:
http://airlineroute.net/2010/12/21/ms-caiyyz-s11update/

This fourth flight is however not bookable and perhaps still subject to the official release of the new air agreement.


User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2491 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3342 times:

BTW, MS is adding a 4th weekly frequency on CAI-

us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3277 times:

We were saying that a 3 weekly B777/300 is too big for the route , now they are going for 4 weekly flights !! That's good , but i still think that they will either reduce capacity or frequency in the slower winter months .


A346,A343,A342,A332,A333,A310,A300,AB6,A319,A320,A321,B741,B744,B777,B767,B732,B735,B727,B707,B757,MD80,F-70,E-170,B738
User currently offlinedrgmobile From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 640 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3129 times:

Canada reaches an expanded air transport agreement with Egypt

OTTAWA — The Honourable Chuck Strahl, Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, and the Honourable Peter Van Loan, Minister of International Trade, today announced that an expanded air transport agreement has been concluded with Egypt.

“I am pleased to announce that an expanded air agreement has been reached with Egypt, which will benefit both our countries,” said Minister Strahl. “This expanded agreement better responds to the needs of travellers between Canada and Egypt, and puts in place a framework that allows more convenient, direct air services.”

This expanded agreement allows airlines to operate more flights between Canada and Egypt, and provides airlines with the flexibility to adjust their prices for travel between Canada and Egypt according to market forces. Airlines may also choose to offer air services using the flights of other airlines, commonly known as code-sharing services. The air transport agreement contains strong provisions dealing with aviation safety and security, reflecting the importance of these subjects to both countries.

“This new agreement will support Canada’s strong and diverse commercial relationship with Egypt, a regional centre for trade and investment,” said Minister Van Loan. “Our government is committed to facilitating the movement of goods, services and people around the world, and this new agreement will help Canadian companies to do just that.”

The agreement is being applied on an administrative basis, allowing airlines to offer new services immediately. Once ratified, the expanded agreement will replace the 1987 Canada-Egypt bilateral air transport agreement.


User currently offlineMSYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 851 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2913 times:

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 18):

From the wording of the agreement , i would expect AC to code-share on MS flights ex Toronto and Montreal will remain without any service to Cairo .



A346,A343,A342,A332,A333,A310,A300,AB6,A319,A320,A321,B741,B744,B777,B767,B732,B735,B727,B707,B757,MD80,F-70,E-170,B738
User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2491 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2825 times:

Quoting MSYYZ (Reply 19):
Montreal will remain without any service to Cairo .

Doesn't matter. TK will eventually step up to the plate and start YUL-IST, with convenient connections to CAI and the rest of the Middle-East.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
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