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Virgin Blue (Australia) Joining Star Alliance?  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11850 posts, RR: 18
Posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 10506 times:
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Reading an article on the proposed tie up between NZ and DJ and I find this part interesting.....Virgin Blue's CEO John Borghetti made a surprise appearance at the Star Alliance opening ceremony yesterday at the invitation of Air New Zealand.

Star Alliance does not have an Australian carrier among its 27 members.

Borghetti said the alliance had put forward a compelling case.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...2/Decision-soon-on-Air-NZ-alliance

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4773 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 10344 times:

If it happens its about time!
It would be a very tidy fit particularly with NZ. The only objector I can see is SQ due their investment in VS and Tiger brands. Also I guess UA might want DJ to drop their relationship with DL



54 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 10284 times:

I could see how a deal would be good for Star Alliance;what would D6 get out of this? It's not like they are under any pressure to join an alliance. Is there a place for V Australia's routes to the USA within Star?

User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 10215 times:

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 2):
Is there a place for V Australia's routes to the USA within Star?

definitely yes. the only major overlap is SYD-LAX, but everyone is on it so it's not a concern. In fact, it'll help Star secure dominance against QF.

ANZ is a good proxy to cover all of Oceania, but it won't hurt to add DJ (but only if VS goes into Star as well)

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):

Star Alliance does not have an Australian carrier among its 27 members.

You also don't need an airline in every country (e.g. no one else has an alliance member in Canada)

People from Europe can feed via SIN/BKK, and people from NorthAmerica can feed via AKL or UA's own metal from SFO/LAX. QF is too SYD-oriented themselves so it's not like Star is losing a major advantage against oneworld.


User currently offlineKleiner From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 10203 times:

How does this affect VS joining Star?

User currently offlineMPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 986 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 10160 times:

Wouldn't this go against the agreement with DL? I thought they were ready to join ST?

On a personal note: Am I the only one that is sick of Star Alliance gaining every airline everywhere? I saw a pie chart in a meeting a while back and they have almost half of the world market ST and OW are distant 2 and 3.



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlineAusA380 From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 10139 times:

This would add some interesting some dimensions in relation to the planned JV with DL on the US route.

Interestingly DJ is developing 3 major alliances, DL in SkyTeam, NZ in Star and Etihad unaligned.

I acknowledge that QF has arrangement with Star Airlines (such as Asiana in Star) they are not as deep a relationship as DJ are planning with these three airlines.

My personal view is that if DJ wanted to join an alliance as much as I have little knowledge or view on SkyTeam (due to their historically low level coverage into Australia) it might be the best as it would do the following:

1) Cement the relationship with DL
2) Not cause any issues with NZ as that is solely a Trans Tasman Alliance and entering Star might generate some interesting dynamics with UA with the DL JV.
3) No real conflict with Etihad
4) Provide a link into Asia which is the stated direction of DJ via Korean Airlines, China Southern and Vietnam who all fly into Australia.
5) New SkyTeam Asian members flying to Australia in Asia, China Eastern (2011), China Airlines (2011) and Garuda Indonesia (2012) again supporting DJ Asian focus
5) Provide a link to South America via Aerolíneas Argentinas who will join joined SkyTeam in 2012


User currently offlineacey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 9921 times:

Yikes, I hope this doesn't happen, at least any time soon, because I literally just submitted a paper about the advantages DL and DJ antitrust immunity would provide! My professor would have some comments if he got wind of this.  

User currently offlinebigvince76 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 9794 times:

Quoting AusA380 (Reply 6):
On a personal note: Am I the only one that is sick of Star Alliance gaining every airline everywhere? I saw a pie chart in a meeting a while back and they have almost half of the world market ST and OW are distant 2 and 3.

As a Star Alliance gold card holder I say the more the merrier! I never understand the argument that Star is too big, surely it is SkyTeam and Oneworld that are too small! Every airline that joins Star instantly becomes my first choice when looking for flights and I am happy to pay a 10-15% premium over non Star members for the benefits my gold card gives me. Virgin blue would be a great addition to Skyteam or Star, I just hope it is Star! and if the rest of the Virgin stable joins too so much the better.


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5552 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 9741 times:

Quoting acey559 (Reply 7):
My professor would have some comments if he got wind of this.

Acey, some points to consider if you have to reply to your professor:

DJ is a very important point in its development. Because of the Ansett collapse there is room in the Australian aviation market place to grow beyond its original LCC niche. Because of liberalization of international air services there is room to grow into that market as well. BUT both these areas are some what unknown to DJ.

Hence the recruitment of John Borghetti, 30 year veteran of Australian aviation, former EGM (Executive General Manager) of QF Airlines (NOT QF Group). Borghetti is obviously exploring all options for DJ's future. The NZ thing is currently Trans Tasman only and the DL/ST thing is currently Trans Pacific only. As he and his Board (which includes SRB) will have to make the strategic decisions to take the company forward, it is only prudent for him to explore ALL options and opportunities, which is exactly what he is doing. I personally wouldn't put any money on DJ joining *A and not much on them joining ST. IMHO they will follow the AS model, co-operate with everyone that makes them money.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offline9252fly From Canada, joined Sep 2005, 1381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 9715 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 9):
I personally wouldn't put any money on DJ joining *A and not much on them joining ST. IMHO they will follow the AS model, co-operate with everyone that makes them money.

  

You can see that same thing going on at WS in Canada,not forgetting the new CEO came from AS.


User currently offlineacey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 9418 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 9):

I was mostly being facetious, but you make some great points. Maybe I'll type up an addendum and email it to him since I didn't see this until after I submitted. Maybe it'll get me some extra credit.  


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11850 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 9347 times:
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Quoting bigvince76 (Reply 8):

Couldn't agree more. Every Star carrier on any route instantly become my first choice and non member airlines are second. Being Star Gold certainly helps during flight delays


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2782 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 9154 times:

Many also see Star as the loosest alliance grouping, given the extreme overlaps that exsist, and the competitive forces that exist between many members Biggest is not always the best.

I can not see how the DJ/DL JV stacks up in all of this, as they still appear to want to persue that arrangement.

Interesting times ahead at DJ.

[Edited 2010-12-13 22:58:52]

User currently onlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3171 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 9143 times:

Quoting bigvince76 (Reply 8):

As a Star Alliance gold card holder I say the more the merrier! I never understand the argument that Star is too big, surely it is SkyTeam and Oneworld that are too small! Every airline that joins Star instantly becomes my first choice when looking for flights and I am happy to pay a 10-15% premium over non Star members for the benefits my gold card gives me. Virgin blue would be a great addition to Skyteam or Star, I just hope it is Star! and if the rest of the Virgin stable joins too so much the better.

I agree 100% - the other alliances don't seem to have the vision that *A does - and definitely bigger is better in this case. Why would I not want status and privileges in almost any part of the world? I'm glad I chose *A a few years ago and stuck with them (and hopefully they're glad for my loyalty and business).



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User currently offlineyvr1968 From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 704 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 9020 times:

This would be amazing if it happens. I travel so much in Australia and internationally out of Australia. To be able to get * Alliance points in Australia would almost surely solidify me flying DJ as much as possible. Most flights I take are usually 1 -2 hours with the odd "long-haul" to Perth, which is the only time I actually prefer QF J class for the comfort. Not obtaining * Alliance points domestically in Australia is the missing link for me flying * Alliance almost every time. Fingers crossed!

User currently offlineAusA380 From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 8164 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 9):
IMHO they will follow the AS model, co-operate with everyone that makes them money.

Having mounted an argument for SkyTeam earlier, the idea of DJ following an AS model does make a lot of sense.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 7193 times:

Quoting Kleiner (Reply 4):
How does this affect VS joining Star?

When are VS joing Star?


User currently offlineMPDPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 986 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 7023 times:

Quoting Nimish (Reply 14):
I agree 100% - the other alliances don't seem to have the vision that *A does - and definitely bigger is better in this case. Why would I not want status and privileges in almost any part of the world? I'm glad I chose *A a few years ago and stuck with them (and hopefully they're glad for my loyalty and business).

I would actually argue the opposite in that because of their size they were slow to the JV table, though they are there now they surely weren't the leaders in this area. I would also say that everywhere Star has added a member ST and OW have been trying as well, so I wouldn't say Star has more vision. Maybe more than OW but thats a different topic. One might even argue that ST has the vision to get as many Chinese carriers as possible as that is where future growth is going to be.

I do like the idea of the AS model, working with everybody, however wouldn't the JV cause problems?



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlinevhtje From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 6845 times:
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For heaven's sake why doesn't DJ just rename themselves Ansett and be done with it?

Yes, of course I am being facetious, but they seem increasingly to be taking on Ansett's former role.

Albeit better managed and better funded.


User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 6794 times:

Quoting bigvince76 (Reply 8):
As a Star Alliance gold card holder I say the more the merrier! I never understand the argument that Star is too big, surely it is SkyTeam and Oneworld that are too small! Every airline that joins Star instantly becomes my first choice when looking for flights and I am happy to pay a 10-15% premium over non Star members for the benefits my gold card gives me. Virgin blue would be a great addition to Skyteam or Star, I just hope it is Star
Quoting 777ER (Reply 12):
Couldn't agree more. Every Star carrier on any route instantly become my first choice and non member airlines are second. Being Star Gold certainly helps during flight delays

     

One cannot get enough carriers to join Star in my opinion. As long as there is not too large an overlap (There isn't with Virgin Blue) then I think it would be a great additon.


User currently offlinewilld From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 223 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 6316 times:

I think it is important to remember that SQ will have a say in all of this.

As part of the agreement between SQ and VS, in c.2002, a major clause in the contract regarded the use of the "Virgin" name by VS and other Virgin branded airlines and the effect it could have on SQ.

I am clearly not a party to the exact wording (otherwise I couldnt post here) but what I can tell you is that SQ were rather insistent on this clause and have in the past flexed their muscles over it hence we now have V Australia, Pacific Blue etc...DJ would love to have them all branded with the Virgin name but sadly cannot.

So taking the SQ element into play, in particular when looking at VS, you also have to remember that SQ are hardly the "best" Star member, just look at the issue of logo jets and them devaluing their brand etc.

Whilst yes DJ makes a good Star fit (as does the whole Virgin airline brand really...I mean would star say no?!) it might not quite be as s imple as that.


User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 6086 times:

^ many people are aware of this, but you've also not been reading DJ-related threads recently - DJ is about to go through a re-brand, new livery (V Australia livery applied to 737s/EMBs) and new name (Virgin Australia)... even their latest 737 was delivered to them all white...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5045/5242652830_c14c6386ea_b.jpg

I dare say SQ have either given their blessing or a new arrangement has been worked out.


User currently offlineGoblin211 From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5605 times:

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 5):

I know, right? OW should get all Australian airlines and totally diss Star Alliance and Skyteam!



From the airport with love
User currently offlineSolent From Australia, joined Oct 2009, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5452 times:

Interesting Star Alliance Love In. I prefer Oneworld and like the fact that they do not want to have the biggest clubhouse but have good airlines. I like the quality of Airlines they have as members. I am a Lufthansa Miles and More member but some airlines in Star I would not fly for a bet. Skyteam has some great airlines but also have some interesting ones that I would not choose to fly.

25 yvr1968 : I agree that Star Alliance does have its share of duds. Even though I am Star Alliance Gold there are a couple I do try and avoid. BUT, Star does hav
26 willd : Your unclear in your post. By DJ do you mean that Virgin Blue is just renaming to Virgin Australia or that V Australia, Pacific Blue etc will also ad
27 MPDPilot : I don't know if I would go that far as I am a Sky Team flier but I think you get the point. This is an interesting note. I had heard that they were s
28 deltamartin : This exactley is my thoughts aswell.
29 9252fly : It would be great to get some clarity on SQ position in respect to DJ. If Star Alliance made a proposal to DJ at the meeting in ZQN,then one can assum
30 Zkpilot : There were reports that at least 3 CEOs were missing from the meeting for various reasons...not sure if SQ was one of them. Shareholding issues aside
31 kiwiandrew : I believe that membership decisions must be unanimous , so one member can veto .
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