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AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets  
User currently offlineBoeing747-400 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3565 times:

All of these are major American airlines. It looks like they have very organized fleet plans ahead of them to me.

AA:

737-800
757-200
767-200
767-300 (ER)
777-200

The A300 and 727 will be retired soon I think.

DL:

737-300
737-800
757-200
767-200
767-300 (ER)
777-200 (ER)

Exact same as AA, MD-11s being replaced with 777s, 727s and 732s, also L1011s gone soon.

UA:

A319
A320
757-200
767-200
767-300 (ER)
777-200 (ER)
777-300 (a possibility, but unlikely)
747-400

The 727s and 737s will be replaced with A320s in the next years to come.

CO:

737-300
737-600 (?? I think CO ordered this, not sure though)
737-700
737-800
737-900
757-200
757-300
767-200ER
767-400ER
777-200

The 727s and DC-10s should be gone in awhile.

NW:

DC-9 (when will they go?)
A318
A320
757-200
757-300
A330-200 (or was it the -300 they ordered?)
747-400
747-400LR (possible when they replace 742s)

The DC-10s, 727s, 742s, and some 752s will leave the fleet in the future.


So, what do you think these airlines future fleets will look like?


22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8912 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3457 times:

CO, DL, and AA will have the same fleets:

737NG (cockpit commonality, use different planes for different capacities)
757/767 - Cockpit commonailty
777
Sonic Cruiser

Jeff


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3435 times:

CO has the 735, not the 736. AA will probably order the 73G in a few years as their MD-82's start to age. Also, DL has the 764 along with the other variants.

User currently offlineJuul From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3432 times:

AA A300s are not going anywhere anytime soon, they're still pretty young, and no plans have been announced on replacing them

CO 737-600: I too thought I had seen an order for these by CO, but they probably converted them to the -700 and -800, 'cause there aren't any on the order books...

NW: It was the A330-300 they ordered.

Other than that, you're probably pretty close to the truth...

Greetings Big grin


User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3396 times:

If AA likes their A300s, what is the possibility of them going for some GE CF6 powered A330s instead of the 767-400ER if Airbus gives them a great deal to replace their A300s in a few years?

User currently offlineTan flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3382 times:

NO chance I can see of AA going to any additional Airbus products. The 35 AB6's will be around a while as most were acquired in the late 80's-early 90's. Long years of service a head for them.

With the economy slowing business travel, I bet that AA will also accelerate the retirement of the 727's and streamline the hubs with aircraft already on hand or on order. Next big order will come when they start to exercise options to begin the MD-80 replacement program....my guess, that starts in 4 yrs or so and with the most recent fresh arrivals of almost new MD-80s from TWA, you can expect MD-80s to around aa for at least another 20 yers..that would give them about a 40 year run at AA..almost the same as the 727.


As for the others listed in your post, I think you have most of it dialed in. I sincerely thought that the 777 was a better fit for NW that the A330...but its not my money.


User currently offlineBoeing747-400 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3383 times:

Tedski,

Not a big possibility at all. The 764ER would suit AA perfectly for commonality with the 777s and 767s in AA's fleet. AA is trying to get an organized common fleet, so the A330 would mess it all up, there is no space for the A330 with the amount of 767s and 777s AA has. A330 doesn't have any commonality with the A300.

Juul,

Ok, sory about that. I'll add the A300.

I can't believe I forgot the Continental 735 and Delta 764.  Sad


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3379 times:

AA recently ordered 15 additional 767-300s to replace TWA's pratt 767s and to pull A-300s off of trans-Atlantic flights.

The A-300s will go back to a two class high density configuration for use in the Carribean and Latin America out of SJU,MIA,and JFK.

There's a good possibility that AA will sell their A-300s to a cargo/package comapny (Fed Ex,UPS) and replace them with 757-300s for high density flights to the carribean and Latin America. The 757-300 is much more efficient for that type of short-medium range high density travel, the A-300s aren't a good fit for airlines because of it's limited range compared to a 767 however it's cargo capacity makes it valuable to Fed Ex,UPS etc..



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineA330/B777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3368 times:

While the 757-300 is an amazing aircraft in terms of efficiency, it just can't haul cargo as well as the A300 can. This is a huge issue for AA because cargo is a huge part of thier business to the islands of the Carribean and Latin America.

User currently offlineBoeing747-400 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3358 times:

A330/B777,

You're right, the 753 can't haul cargo as well, but the 767-300 can. So the 767-300ER will be the likely replacement of the A300s when the time comes.


User currently offlineA330/B777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3348 times:

I agree, B744, although the B764 might be a good replacement too, since the A300-600s seat over 260 pax in AA's 2-class layout.

User currently offlineBoeing747-400 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3342 times:

You're correct, the 764 is also a possible replacement.

User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3339 times:

Just to clear things up about CO, they never placed an order for the 736, and I doubt that they will. The 735's cover this market well, and they are still very young.

AA will probably order the 764 and have it two configurations, one for intl. flights, and one for high density short to medium haul flights. I wouldn't rule out the 753 though.


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3331 times:

The long term fleet plans for each of these carriers is pretty clear.

AA : AA's fleet seems to be set for a while, especially after the TWA integration. The volume of relatively new MD80s acquired serves as a fleet replenishment plan in itself for the Super 80 fleet. The 738 is obviously featuring bigtime in their plans, and look for an expansion of that fleet along with the possibility of some 73Gs for other flying (possibly a low cost subsidiary? maybe we will have Crandall's B-scale type program again?) The A300 is a major oddball in the fleet and don't expect to see them around too much longer. The older 767s will replace them in the Carribean as more 777s take over the FlAAgship services. A nice balance of widebodies and narrowbodies gives them a very balanced fleet plan in terms of capacity and costs.

CO : They are already phasing out the MD80s and replacing them with 737NGs. The 733s and 735s will be next to go, replaced with 73Gs. Everything upto the 120 seat capacity will be handled by Express. Remember, the IACP contract has no scope clause so there is no problem with this. There are no plans to acquire the 736 right now, but all the 73G orders are convertible to other variants. The domestic fleet will consist of 737s and 757s (both -200 and -300 series) while the international fleet will be 762, 764 and 777. Gordon is in complete command of everything here, except possibly his pilots who are threatening to bring in ALPA. Guys, JUST SAY NO!

DL : The L1011s are gone in a few weeks. MD-11s are an oddball, but will be around as long as the 777 line is backed up. The 764s are never going to be utilized as efficiently as Continentals will be, so learn to live with it. DL intends to essentially let the commuters handle almost all short-medium haul flying as the MD80s go out and more CRJs (the -700s especially) come in. Mainline flies the premium transcons and expanded international routes (with the occasional long thin route or high density shorthaul using the 757s and 738s), but the marginal routes get the lower-cost-structure subsidiaries. That is why Delta fought tooth and nail to get "scope clause" concessions from the mainline pilots in the contract dispute. And it also explains why ComAir held so firm in their dispute. They HAVE TO keep their costs down to fit in with DL's long term strategic plan.

NW : At last someone with question marks over them. The biggest question mark is the DC9 replacement. So far, there doesnt appear to be any contender to the 717 in this field (don't even suggest the A318 till Airbus proves it will even get off the ground) which explains why NW will probably not be keen on acquiring it just yet. They have traditionally been very conservative in this respect and will wait till a design proves itself before committing to it. The A330s will replace the DC-10-30s internationally, the 753s will replace the DC-10-40s domestically and the Airbuses are replacing the 727s. What about the transpac 742s? Good question again. If ETOPS 207 becomes a reality, we can expect the possibility of 777 variant in NW's future - but my gut instinct says that Anderson's conservative nature will stay within the 747 family instead.

UA : What an unenviable mess. Not since the creation of Allegis has UA seen such a glut of good stuff causing bad results. UA suffers from the classic problem of trying to be too much to everybody. An ideal standardization plan would be towards Airbus narrowbodies (319, 320) and Boeing widebodies (747, 767, 777). Dump the 737s double quick (spin off Shuttle? Dick Ferris, please pick up the white courtesy phone!) and find a niche for those 757s in long thin routes. Its gonna be messy, and Jimmy Goodwin has a job thats fast deteriorating into "nightmare" classification.


User currently offlineImkeww From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3308 times:

B747-437B:

Unfortunately, you are far too right in your assessment of UA's problem of being too much to too many...

One only needs to take a look at the multitude of cabin configurations to see this... even before UA finished other reconfigs, they decided to reconfig again. There is a horrible inconsistency of planes out there floating around with 6 or so different interior decors (although the newer decors are very rare), some 74's STILL without First Suite, mutiple crew rest configs on the triple, the list never ends. UAL can't seem to decide what standard configs it wants on the inside.

The United fleet standardization plan was established more than 5 years ago under Greenwald, and it is exactly what is hapeening right now; albeit, the A32X have been merely trickling in.

It's hard to dump the 157 strong workhorses in the 737 classic fleet when most aren't even 15 years old-- hell, younger than a lot of MD-80s. The widebody fleet has consisted of more than 150 modern 747-400, 767, and 777 aircraft; it's the largest and one of the most modern long range/widebody fleets in the world. I don't see a problem with the way UA is deplying 75's, for it is utilizing them just like all the other majors.

As it stands right now, the only white elephants in the fleet are the 24 737-200s... The 727s are fast going and should be gone before two years' passing. 35 should be retired in 2001.

In conclusion, I think UA's fleet strategy is a mess interior-wise, but very soundly arranged type-wise. United will have 6 standard fleet types in less than two years: B747-400, B777, B767/757, A32X, B737Classic, and the token 737-200. The natural progression will be more A32X series orders, with a faster delivery shedule.

At least it's not like AA, with 7in the forseeable future: B777, B767/757, 737NG, MD8X, B717, F100, A300R. Hell, DL is standardizing to 8: B777, B767/757, MD-11, MD-90, MD-80, 737Classic, 737-200, 737NG. No retirement plans have been made regarding the MD-80, MD-90, and 737-200, except for the possibility of 737-700s replacing the latter for express.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3278 times:

A couple of quick clarifications, the IACP voted about two months ago to join ALPA , it's already happened.

Second there is a clause regarding RJs at COEX, the limit is either 65 or 68 seats for jet aircraft. If they want COEX to fly 100 seater turbo props there's no problem but Jet aircraft above 65 or 68 seats have to be flown by mainline CAL pilots. If they could have ordered a 70-100 RJ for their COEX pilots to fly they would have ordered it years ago.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3269 times:

NW

DC-9 (when will they go?)
A318
A320
757-200
757-300
A330-200 (or was it the -300 they ordered?)
747-400
747-400LR (possible when they replace 742s)


Uhhhh, where is the A319???



User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9191 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3266 times:

UAL is quite unlikely to get any B 737NGs. However, the B 757-200 is serving UAL VERY well since this is a very reliable plane, they may go for more in the future. UAL is moving towards an all Airbus Fleet for aircraft that are smaller than the B 757 and an all Boeing Fleet for aircraft that are larger than the B 757.

When it comes to a point that UAL's B 762s need to be replaced, they may order a mixture of B 767-300ERs as well as a few B 767-400ERs. The B 767-400ER fits in perfectly into UAL's fleet, since they have so many B 767s.

It is quite odd that AA will replace their A 300s with B 764ERs.

Just my thoughts.  Smile


User currently offlineBoeing747-400 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3260 times:

hlywdCatft,

Well excuse me for making a little mistake. You can forget things after typing that much. Nobody's perfect.


User currently offlineBaec777 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1231 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3245 times:

What is NWA replacing their 757s with....??

Could it be B737-900s or A321s ...??

Baec777  Smokin cool


User currently offlineMikeymike From United States of America, joined May 2000, 406 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3245 times:

On par with what someone said about DL's MD-11's, they're not going anywhere anytime soon. DL does not have enough 777's on order to afford losing the MD-11s. ALso the MD-88's aren't going anywhere anytime soon either.

User currently offlineDeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1662 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3235 times:

Actually Continental did order 737-600s back in 97. The Wall Street Journal did a HUGE piece on it and there was no mistaken that they had 737-600s as orders. Very shortly after they converted the 600s to 500s, 700s and 800/900s. They did it so fast after their initial announcement of the 600s that it is just generally assumed they never ordered them at all.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 22, posted (13 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3227 times:

The A300s are staying for the long-haul. AA will mainly use them on Caribbean routes and high-capacity short/medium Latin routes that don't generate as heavy premium traffic, such as MIA-LPB-VVI and MIA-LIM. They already use them on MIA-MEX, MIA-MBJ, MIA-KIN, and MIA-SJU. You will see the A300s out of trans-Atlantic services by the end of 2002.


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