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9W To Resume BOM - PVG & Start ICN, NRT, TPE, CDG  
User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2988 posts, RR: 25
Posted (4 years 1 week ago) and read 9767 times:

From 1st April 2011, 9W will add flights to ICN, TPE, NRT, PVG, CDG. PVG will be flown from BOM with an A332 by mid next year. CDG would also be from BOM while the rest would be from DEL I guess.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-1...ervice-amid-very-good-growth-.html


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 week ago) and read 9741 times:

All SkyTeam hubs...it does make one think.

User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 week ago) and read 9643 times:

And just a week ago 9W's COO Mr Sudheer Raghavan also said “Rome is definitely an option and we will fly there too. It is just a question of time"

JetAir will link more European destinations
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...stinations/articleshow/7050351.cms

Considering they have just begun DEL-MXP in codeshare with Alitalia, that they are looking to add BOM-PVG, BOM-FCO, BOM-CDG, DEL-ICN, DEL-TPE, DEL-NRT, seems like SkyTeam could become their new home.


User currently offlineManekS From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9586 times:

Talk about aggressive expansion! Good for 9W. I hope their next step is to expand in North America and also offer international connectivity from cities like BLR (which is being ignored by IT as well .. weird considering they call it their main hub). Good luck Jet Airways  

User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2988 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (4 years 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9565 times:

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 2):
DEL-ICN, DEL-TPE, DEL-NRT, seems like SkyTeam could become their new home.

Are you sure it will be started from DEL?



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlinesq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1643 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (4 years 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9315 times:

Quoting Delimit (Reply 1):
All SkyTeam hubs...it does make one think.

   Wow I didn't even notice! Looks like the beggining of something here...



Keep Discovering
User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1569 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (4 years 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9161 times:

Very interesting indeed. Wouldn't TPE make more sense from South India-BLR perhaps? The business traffic definitely would help, and the connections to the West Coast with CI would also work well...


The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7691 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (4 years 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8889 times:

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 5):
Quoting Delimit (Reply 1):
All SkyTeam hubs...it does make one think.

Wow I didn't even notice! Looks like the beggining of something here...

Do they already fly to AMS?


User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1513 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (4 years 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8781 times:

They don't. London, Brussels and Milan right now according to the map on their site.

User currently offline9W748Capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 626 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7730 times:

I wonder how exactly 9W would fit into skyteam if indeed that's the direction they're going. If they start flights to CDG, MXP, and AMS (pure speculation), that's 3 skyteam hubs - then would they continue flying their own metal to the USA - and furthermore would they maintain their scissors hub at BRU? Correct me if I'm wrong but it would seem as though in a way they'd be competing with the AF, KL, and DL (assuming they shift their US-Europe flights to a skyteam hub) on the US-Europe sectors if they fly their own metal (IIRC they do have 5th freedom rights on those routes). Or would they "narrow" their focus onto connecting the feed from skyteam hubs onto India?

User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2988 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (4 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7690 times:

Quoting 9W748Capt (Reply 9):
If they start flights to CDG, MXP,

They already have flights to MXP

Quoting 9W748Capt (Reply 9):
and furthermore would they maintain their scissors hub at BRU?

The scissors hub at BRU is something to be worked out. A faction of 9W says BRU hub will be maintained, some say it will be replaced at MXP or AMS and some say 9W will now simply fly non stop to the USA and get rid of a Europe hub altogether. Time will tell what strategy they will adopt.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1867 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (4 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7657 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 10):
and some say 9W will now simply fly non stop to the USA and get rid of a Europe hub altogether. Time will tell what strategy they will adopt.

Wouldn't that basically be duplicating AI's strategy, if they do it from DEL? While I don't doubt 9W could execute a strategy with more competence than AI, is that the best way forwards?


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 12, posted (4 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7648 times:

Quoting 9W748Capt (Reply 9):
I wonder how exactly 9W would fit into skyteam if indeed that's the direction they're going.

Interesting question. I don't see them dismantling the BRU hub anytime soon. It's possible for them to maintain BRU(and perhaps expand a bit), and connect to additional NA destinations on codeshare flights from CDG and AMS.


User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2988 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (4 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7534 times:

Quoting tharanga (Reply 11):
if they do it from DEL? While I don't doubt 9W could execute a strategy with more competence than AI, is that the best way forwards?

Getting head on with 9W won't do any good to either of them. 9W would want to go non stop BOM - EWR; DEL - YYZ and DEL - JFK. Govt of India has refused them to fly DEL - JFK and most likely DEL - ORD too will not be allowed by the govt. So basically they have limited options like BOM - EWR/JFK; DEL - YYZ/EWR.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 12):
I don't see them dismantling the BRU hub anytime soon. It's possible for them to maintain BRU(and perhaps expand a bit),

What expansion have you seen at BRU ever since its operation of BOM, DEL, MAA via BRU to N. America that you are expecting some expansion now?



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineVIDP From India, joined Feb 2010, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7427 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 4):
Are you sure it will be started from DEL?

And what makes you so sure thats its going to be BOM ?? We all are speculating here on basis of press statements
released to the media by the airline isnt it eventually we all will come to know from where these flights would start operating.


User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2988 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (4 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7359 times:

Quoting VIDP (Reply 14):
And what makes you so sure thats its going to be BOM ??

And where did I imply that they are starting from BOM? PVG is starting from BOM is clear from the press release and DEL - CDG has been rejected by the govt. earlier which automatically means it will start from BOM.

Quoting VIDP (Reply 14):
We all are speculating here on basis of press statements
released to the media by the airline isnt it eventually we all will come to know from where these flights would start operating.

Just in case if you have not read my opening post I used the phrase "I guess", which clearly implies I'm speculating as much as everyone else is doing.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3284 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (4 years 6 days ago) and read 6229 times:

Excellent to hear about these new routes being planned by 9W. Now I do hope that they finalize the routes/ schedules and start selling tickets ASAP, no point being like AI and offering seats only in the last few weeks only to then complain about low loads!


Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 17, posted (4 years 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6073 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 13):
What expansion have you seen at BRU ever since its operation of BOM, DEL, MAA via BRU to N. America that you are expecting some expansion now?

Wasn't there a flight from BLR to BRU which connected to BRU-NA flights?

Quoting ojas (Reply 10):
A faction of 9W says BRU hub will be maintained, some say it will be replaced at MXP or AMS and some say 9W will now simply fly non stop to the USA and get rid of a Europe hub altogether. Time will tell what strategy they will adopt.

High(and rising) fuel prices need to be accounted for before they consider the non-stop to NA strategy from BOM and DEL. Why not try BOM-ORD and see if the numbers work out.


User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2988 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (4 years 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5957 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 17):
Wasn't there a flight from BLR to BRU which connected to BRU-NA flights?

That isn't such a great expansion; a route that lasted for not more than 4 months. All had made such tall claims that it will be a 7 X 7 scissors hub and all that whereas the truth is even MAA - BRU will be pulled out, according to insiders.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 17):
Why not try BOM-ORD and see if the numbers work out.

They do not have the aircraft for that. A B77W does not make sense on BOM - ORD.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineConti764 From Belgium, joined Dec 2007, 234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5941 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 10):
A faction of 9W says BRU hub will be maintained

Without a partner airline at BRU? Okay, you have several ST-airlines flying to BRU as well, but KL is very small at BRU and so is AF, if they still fly to BRU, that is.

And wouldn't that conflict with that other main user of the airport? When SN was alone in the dark   and BRU was a heavily underutilized facility, 9W practically called the shots at the airport. But now SN is in Star Alliance, LH might fully acquire them in a few months and both SN and Star Alliance are constantly growing at BRU so I can't imagine BRU being both a hub to Star Alliance and Jet Airways (in Skyteam).

AMS or CDG would be the logical alternative, but they are already heavily used by respectively KL and AF. Leaves them with MXP but AZ recently dropped the airport (no partner) and imho it is too far south.


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 20, posted (4 years 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5911 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 18):
That isn't such a great expansion; a route that lasted for not more than 4 months.

You were implying that there was no expansion. Perhaps not a great expansion.

Quoting ojas (Reply 18):
They do not have the aircraft for that. A B77W does not make sense on BOM - ORD.

Not true.

77W has still air range of 7,930nm. BOM-ORD is 6,999nm on GC. There is enough gap to make this route work on a 77W.
CO's 77E have a range of 7,725nm, and EWR-BOM is 6,784nm on GC. CO is able to make its route work, with some payload penalty.


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 21, posted (4 years 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5873 times:

Quoting Conti764 (Reply 19):
AMS or CDG would be the logical alternative, but they are already heavily used by respectively KL and AF. Leaves them with MXP but AZ recently dropped the airport (no partner) and imho it is too far south.

I think as part of entry to Skyteam, Jet would have to negotiate access to either CDG or AMS.


User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2988 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (4 years 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5728 times:

Quoting Conti764 (Reply 19):
Without a partner airline at BRU? Okay, you have several ST-airlines flying to BRU as well, but KL is very small at BRU and so is AF, if they still fly to BRU, that is.

I too think 9W should call it a day at BRU, rather focus on non stops to the US. Till they had only BRU, LHR in Europe it made sense to transfer all passengers through different points in Europe. Now with more European destinations coming online and that Skyteam alliance looking obvious, 9W might as well take the Indo - europe traffic via CDG, MXP etc.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 20):
77W has still air range of 7,930nm. BOM-ORD is 6,999nm on GC. There is enough gap to make this route work on a 77W.

Take a look at the BOM - EWR route on GC map and check the actual routings on flightaware, flightradar24.com etc. There is a marginal difference there. So it is incorrect to assume that BOM-ORD will chart the exact same flight path as the GC map.

Secondly, every airline has its aircraft configured in a certain way thus the restrictions vary from airline to airline. Jet Airways already has a heavy aircraft and add to the fact a restricted payload. It will turn out to be a bad idea.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 20):
CO's 77E have a range of 7,725nm, and EWR-BOM is 6,784nm on GC. CO is able to make its route work, with some payload penalty.

As I mentioned earlier, the charted route and GC route are not identical.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 23, posted (4 years 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5679 times:

Quoting ojas (Reply 22):
As I mentioned earlier, the charted route and GC route are not identical.

I know that, and I think everyone else does too. I was using the GC distance to make a point.

EK makes DXB-SFO(at 7,041 nm) work with a 77W. EK's 77W has 358 seats(12F, 42J, 304Y), and Jet's 77W has 312 seats(8F, 30J, 274Y)

Don't tell me that EK's 77W is lighter than Jet's 77W. Not sure if EK uses 77W on DXB-SFO, but CX does use 77W on HKG-JFK--a distance of 7014nm, which is less than BOM-ORD.

Quoting ojas (Reply 22):
I too think 9W should call it a day at BRU, rather focus on non stops to the US.

With what aircraft and from where? On one hand you claim that 77W is not an ideal aircraft for BOM-ORD, and on the other suggesting that they drop BRU as a hub. 9W has 788 on order which is likely to have has less of a range than the 77W.

[Edited 2010-12-15 12:29:56]

User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (4 years 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5634 times:

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
ICN, TPE, NRT, PVG, CDG.

They may be SkyTeam hubs, but those are also huge gaps in their route network that only makes sense to fill. HKG is their only current east Asian destination - of course they need to expand into the largest cities in Korea, Taiwan, Japan, and China.

From Wiki : Jet Airways has codeshare agreements with the following airlines[17]:

* Air Canada
* Alitalia [18]
* All Nippon Airways
* American Airlines
* Brussels Airlines
* Etihad Airways
* Gulf Air
* JetLite
* Kenya Airways
* Malaysia Airlines
* Qantas
* United Airlines

9W code-shares with AC, ANA, Brussels Airlines, and UA, plus scissor hubs in BRU. And their product is premium, esp their beautiful F suites. Makes sense for them to take StarAlliance over SkyTeam.


25 ojas : Please read what I have posted. We are discussing the 9W B77W over here and no one else's B77W. And I will be stupid enough to say the B77W is not an
26 9W748Capt : Good lord - I didn't know that the GoI is still being protectionist morons over their little stepchild airline. What the hell - that's really disappo
27 LAXDESI : I can not locate any source which suggests that EK's 77W have additional fuel tank. Do you have a source? Again, EK has nearly 50 more seats than 9W
28 AirIndia : 20 of EK's 77Ws are certified for 2 tonnes extra for a 351.5T MTOW. A6-ECC/D/E/F, A6-ECJ-X plus A6-EGA The capacity to SFO is 8F, 42J, 295Y
29 LAXDESI : Thanks for the info. Is that a tech insert that other operators can also get?
30 SN-MD11 : It's only a matter of weeks before 9W will be invited to join ST and therefore will leave BRU. MXP will really make sense as a future scissor hub in E
31 LAXDESI : I hope its not true. Star makes more sense for NA market as most of Indian population centres are STAR hubs. How are the facilities at MXP?
32 Delimit : Assuming 9W joins SkyTeam, AMS would be a far better choice.
33 Post contains images 9W748Capt : Would 9W have any trouble acquiring slots for the preferred times? I'm not sure if AMS is slot restricted or not... And then I wonder if DL/KL would
34 Conti764 : Why? It is too far South and there is no local partner to feed/disperse 9W-pax. Unless AZ will expand at MXP again... The most logical choice would b
35 Nimish : That would be awesome - and would help 9W a whole bunch - assuming they actually do some serious integration - with the likes of AF/ KL/ DL etc.
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