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Aeroflot: LOI For 16 777s  
User currently offlinen1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 559 posts, RR: 17
Posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16555 times:

Bloomberg reported and Aeroflot has confirmed the signing of an "agreement of intent" (LOI??) for 8 777-200ERs and 8 777-300ERs.

And they are also looking at ordering 4 787s.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-1...raft-for-as-much-as-5-billion.html

65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6882 posts, RR: 63
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16520 times:

Wow. A new customer for the 777-200ER! I thought we'd seen the last of those. Actually rather nice to see.  

User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2679 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16476 times:

Great news!!!
They will look great in Aeroflot livery!!!



אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1508 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16411 times:

ERs? Really?
Hopefully they will fare better than the last 777s Aeroflot operated.


User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8524 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16364 times:
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Interesting news, especially since SU have large orders for 787 & A350 models too.


111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2679 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16336 times:

Quoting Delimit (Reply 3):
ERs? Really?
Hopefully they will fare better than the last 777s Aeroflot operated.

Maybe it's a typo: they may be 777-200LRs and not 777-200ERs, but who knows?



אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlinebrightcedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1288 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16294 times:

I find this strange seeing they seem to have their requirements covered by the existing orders for B787's and A350's.

Aren't we instead talking about SU getting a swap compensation deal with Boeing? Reducing the B787 order drastically and perhaps planning on adding more of those frames much later in time with a fresh order?



I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1508 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16226 times:

Well, availability seems to be a big factor. The article claims this is being driven by the 2014 Olympics, so the 350 won't help there, and depending on their eventual delivery, neither may the 787s.

Still, I am surprised they aren't LRs, although ERs are probably a good bit less expensive.

[Edited 2010-12-16 02:12:59]

User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4395 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16208 times:

Economy is going up steep in Europe and Asia, Olympics means big planes needed soon. Good news are good news.

User currently offlinejupiter2 From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 890 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16139 times:

Quoting brightcedars (Reply 6):
I find this strange seeing they seem to have their requirements covered by the existing orders for B787's and A350's.

Aren't we instead talking about SU getting a swap compensation deal with Boeing? Reducing the B787 order drastically and perhaps planning on adding more of those frames much later in time with a fresh order?

Can I go out on a limb here and say that if this article had said the proposed order was for 330's, then this would be a wise decision by SU and that it is a good choice before they get their 350's ?

As the article says, they want the capacity before 2014 for the Olympics, I am surprised that Boeing can do it, I would be as surprised if Airbus could as well. Personally I would say that there is a fair chance that these could be obtained on leases, as isn't the 777 line pretty well full up ?

Quoting Delimit (Reply 3):
Hopefully they will fare better than the last 777s Aeroflot operated.

I thought that SU liked the 777, just at the time they didn't have the routes that needed the capacity and the small fleet (2) just didn't make keeping them viable. That was quite a few years ago now, SU has grown substantially, as has Russian aviation .

RL


User currently offlineGarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16049 times:

I didn't expect this.
I always thought SU didn't see any case for the 777, hence they ditch the ones they had.

I'd wager the Olympics have something to do with this.



arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16009 times:

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 9):
Quoting Delimit (Reply 3):
Hopefully they will fare better than the last 777s Aeroflot operated.

I thought that SU liked the 777, just at the time they didn't have the routes that needed the capacity and the small fleet (2) just didn't make keeping them viable. That was quite a few years ago now, SU has grown substantially, as has Russian aviation .

That would be my feeling as well.

Absolutely delighted with this thought - always thought SU needed something bigger than an A333. No question the 77W will be an absolute smash hit on the Moscow - JFK and NRT runs.

I dont get that excited about potential livery/airframe combos these days i guess because of the amount of Eurowhite floating around, but Lordy, those 77Ws are going to look STUNNING.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlinepylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1503 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 15980 times:

Aeroflot has 22 A350 and 22 B787 on order.
A-330 are all on lease and considered interim.

From what I read I can't figure if SU makes change/swap in B787 order.
Are they going to buy or lease?

Sure SU needs a larger aircraft than A-330.
And rather not due to Olympics - but due to competition.
In Russia they compete with Transaero fleet of 747-400 and 777-200.

On most lucrative domestic and international routes SU compete with larger planes of other carriers.
772ER is the right choice for Aeroflot. Su doesn't have routes that long to use 772LR.

As to previous experience. The general understanding was that it's a complete financial disaster to have 2 aircraft in fleet.
10 years ago Aeroflot was not in a position to "swallow" more.
Not they can have a right number of Boeing-772/773 and Airbus-332/333 to maintain sound balance.

Wow. Triple Seven in SU livery is going to stunning.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6882 posts, RR: 63
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 15870 times:

Quoting pylon101 (Reply 12):
A-330 are all on lease and considered interim.

Nope. The first ten were leased but the order they placed with Airbus in July for 11 A330s is a direct purchase.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 15844 times:

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 9):
Can I go out on a limb here and say that if this article had said the proposed order was for 330's, then this would be a wise decision by SU and that it is a good choice before they get their 350's ?

Can I ask you explain better what you mean though as I personally didn't see the 'necessity' for such a comment? No-one has suggested that the announced LOI is not a "wise decision", or questioned it in any way.


User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1583 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 15750 times:

Quoting brightcedars (Reply 6):
I find this strange seeing they seem to have their requirements covered by the existing orders for B787's and A350's.

Well, they need it before the 2014 winter olympics, so forget about A350's and it's a gamble counting on 787's... Don't forget SU was rather late ordering A350's and 787's, so early slots were taken up already.

Quoting brightcedars (Reply 6):
Aren't we instead talking about SU getting a swap compensation deal with Boeing? Reducing the B787 order drastically and perhaps planning on adding more of those frames much later in time with a fresh order?

According to the article, they're looking for 4 787's as well. So it looks like expansion to me...

But without doubt, a good deal of compensation for the delayed 787's will be incorporated into this deal. Good news for Boeing and SU.



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 15680 times:

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 15):
Quoting brightcedars (Reply 6):
I find this strange seeing they seem to have their requirements covered by the existing orders for B787's and A350's.

Well, they need it before the 2014 winter olympics, so forget about A350's and it's a gamble counting on 787's... Don't forget SU was rather late ordering A350's and 787's, so early slots were taken up already.

Makes me wonder whether they've taken on someone else's slots, I have to say.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlinepylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1503 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 15629 times:

Quoting PM (Reply 13):
Nope. The first ten were leased but the order they placed with Airbus in July for 11 A330s is a direct purchase.

Thanks for reminding.
Well, it just confirms that 22A + 22B order has significatly evolved.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11):
No question the 77W will be an absolute smash hit on the Moscow - JFK and NRT runs.

I actually don't think it's about US routes or Tokyo - if only pax traffic - not cargo payload is considered.
US bound routes market is balanced by SU/DL/UA/UN direct flights. And endless number of routtes via EU.

It's all about Asian routes and leisure routes and domestic routes.
Bangkok - TG uses 773, UN flies 747 and 777 (sometimes 2 daily).
Phuket - UN 747
Hoshimin - VN and UN - 777
Bali - UN - 747
And the list goes on and on.
On most routes SU has smaller 332/333 vs. larger aircraft.


User currently offlinejupiter2 From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 890 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 15572 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 14):
Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 9):
Can I go out on a limb here and say that if this article had said the proposed order was for 330's, then this would be a wise decision by SU and that it is a good choice before they get their 350's ?

Can I ask you explain better what you mean though as I personally didn't see the 'necessity' for such a comment? No-one has suggested that the announced LOI is not a "wise decision", or questioned it in any way.

Well, it's typical A vs B banter that we normally cop on these forums.

Personally, I don't give a stuff if it comes out of Toulouse/Hamburg or Seattle, or anywhere else that build aircraft, but as usual, on this and most of similar forums, someone has to pump up their fave manufacturer.

Maybe I am wrong, but brightcedars comments seemed to be taking a swipe at the 787 and the never ending precession of delays associated with it, ie, claiming that this maybe a swap/compensation deal because of the delays with this program, maybe I am wrong, if that is the case, I apologise to brightcedar. However, his comments to me seemed to indicate just that, ie : this is a get out of the 787 contract because we are tired of the delays, but if we have to buy something of yours (Boeing) we will buy the 777's, we know they work at least !!

Mostly these comments are, unfortunately, flag based (and quite often from people who would appear to have great knowledge, contacts and I enjoy reading their comments, but get suckered in because their personal favourite is being criticised, either rightly or wrongly), as has been mentioned previously in other threads, I like to think I am neutral to that. Personally I tire very quickly of the crap that is spread from both sides of the Atlantic, usually I sit here and bite my tongue, tonight I bit, oh well.........sue me.

So generally, to all you A bashers and B bashers, grow up, if you can't say something nice, or congragulate your oppenent, keep your mouth shut.

That will conclude my rant for this evening.

RL


User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1508 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 15284 times:

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 18):
However, his comments to me seemed to indicate just that, ie : this is a get out of the 787 contract because we are tired of the delays, but if we have to buy something of yours (Boeing) we will buy the 777's, we know they work at least !!

To be fair, there may very well be 787 compensation involved with this. Not so much as a way of getting out of the deal; rather, this could be Boeing offering better terms or availability on the 777s rather than paying SU dollars.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 15190 times:

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 18):
So generally, to all you A bashers and B bashers, grow up, if you can't say something nice, or congragulate your oppenent, keep your mouth shut.

Interesting rant. Personally, everyone in aviation knows of the massive 787 delays and that Boeing are having to offer aircraft as part of compensation deals......thus Brightcedars stated nothing whatever that is not common knowledge and which was clearly not stated as any 'swipe'. Thus, it was a perfectly valid question to ask and funny no-one else took it 'wrong' whatsoever. So it's indeed interesting that for someone who claims they don't care either way to seemingly want to start an A v's B flamewar for absolutely no reason.


User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7482 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 15098 times:

If they are only needed for the 2014 Olympics,why buy? Short term leases,like the Hajj??


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineDelimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1508 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 15019 times:

And LOI with Boeing a purchase, not a lease.

User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1402 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 14929 times:

Let me tell you, this is not for the Olympics, as pylon pointed out these are for growth and maybe some of the oldest 767s may be replaced (as 4 of them >20 years old). Let's see how things develop, as this is 'only' a LOI.


Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently onlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 14889 times:

If half of the frames are -200ERs... are they necessarily new planes? Boeing could be helping to place used aircraft.

Boeing is apparently selling -200LRs for not much more than new -200ERs, and SU has enough long routes (particularly to the Americas) that they could use the payload range.

If the aircraft are all new aircraft, it seems like ordering -200LRs and -300ERs together would be a no-brainer.

[Edited 2010-12-16 06:01:35]

25 Aesma : Aren't the Olympics supposed to bring sustained growth ? So it's not about having the planes for a month or two, but having them years before and afte
26 Lufthansa : excuse me but 8 77W's and you're all wetting your pants? Seriously? How many does Emirates operate again? This is a small fleet. A very small fleet. a
27 brightcedars : I honestly don't have a clue what I could have said that made you think so. I'm happy about any airline ordering anything. I do express some surprise
28 Larshjort : its 16 new aircraft of 2 different types new to SU, whcih already have orders for the 787 and the A350. I don't think anyone saw this one coming. /La
29 KPDX : Oh my goodness. A 77W in Aeroflot paint. *faints*
30 abibus : Great new for the industry and Boeing and Aeroflot!!! Are they getting a new Business Class product? what happens with all the 330 they just bought ??
31 CFBFrame : Maybe the 787 has begun to help its own internal programs? We've seen the 330 sales, so NOW an ER order? Seriously? A re-read of the article might ad
32 Post contains links A320boy : http://www.cardatabase.net/modifieda...earch/photo_search.php?id=00012637 Very nice!
33 MPDPilot : AF and DL are both sky team, I don't know how much of this is competition based with them at least more with Transero, who operates larger aircraft t
34 Goblin211 : it always seems aeroflot is late to the game. it seems like yesterday they got the a320s. or were they the last customers to get them for the 1st time
35 Aeroflot777 : Nope. Yep. Not smart to have only two aircraft in a fleet. Money/Logistics/Crew nightmare. What on Earth are you talking about?
36 Post contains links Aeroflot777 : http://www.aeroflot.ru/cms/new/8675 Aeroflot's official press release. The memorandum for this order was signed back in September. Aeroflot is looking
37 sofianec : It does indeed say in the PR that the versions to be ordered are -200ER and -300ER. While I commend Aeroflot for the latter why the -200ER since -200
38 Delimit : Are the 200ER and LR that closely priced? I would think the engines would be a big differentiator, as GE 90-110s ain't cheap.
39 sxf24 : No, they are not similarly priced. There is about a $30M difference in list price.
40 sofianec : But then again we're talking "list prices". I am sure price negotiations will eat that 30M difference due to at least a few factors: - new 777 operat
41 Post contains links BMI727 : Actually that depends on where you are flying. Aeroflot doesn't really have to worry that much about high temps or high elevations so we can toss tha
42 Post contains images PM : Plus, they can get RR engines on the ER!
43 CFBFrame : They will buy GE for both. Why would you buy an ER with a different engine than the 77W?
44 BMI727 : The GE engines on the 77W and 77L (the GE90-110/115b) are significantly different than those on the 777-200/-200ER. These significant differences, or
45 pylon101 : The longest SU routes at the moment are SVO-LAX and SVO-HAV. Which are long but not that long, and perfectly match both -200ER and -300ER. As to ULR i
46 LY777 : Which a/c type to they usually use on CDG flights? What about peak seasons? Do they sometimes send 763s?
47 pylon101 : There are used to be 2 SU flights and 2 AF flight a day. Most A-320/321. Sometimes AF and SU send 1 aircraft serving 2 flights. But in peak days it ma
48 sofianec : Aeroflot is pretty weak to Latin America with the exception of Cuba and since most carriers focus on opening important Brasil services due to its boom
49 pylon101 : I am not quite sure. We should wait until the winter season is over. I am talking about leisure traffic. Tour operators have been promoting Rio and C
50 YYZALA : Congratz to SU! Their livery is in my top 3 favourites and will look amazing on the mighty 777. While I understand the reason for getting the 77W (cap
51 AirGabon : Not right. Between SVO and CDG there are 4 SU flights and 4 AF flights per day, all in code-share = 8 flights per day: AF SVO 07.10 / 09.10 CDG SU SV
52 pylon101 : Really? 8 flights a day? Well, I have not been to Paris for a long time, I guess.
53 The777Man : Nice with LOI for 777s from Aeroflot but it would be even better with a firm order. The777Man
54 sofianec : Let's hope air travel improves even more in Russia. Who knows - some day we might see an A380 in Aeroflot's colors. ---
55 Flyingsottsman : Yes it will, its a stunning livery, compared to its old Soviet style, I wounder what an IL-62 would have look like in its present livery?
56 JerseyFlyer : Maybe they will wait for their A358s for this
57 wedgetail737 : With some A330's coming on line and the new pending 777 order, I hope to see SU reintroduce some US-Russia routes that had been dropped in the past li
58 EddieDude : Guys, I dunno you, but I'd love to see MEX-SVO launched by SU!
59 pylon101 : For some years - but not for long - SU did extention HAV-MEX. And it was nothing less than IL-86. Unfortunately we don't have a picture of IL-86 at ME
60 Post contains images EddieDude : It was a rather long flight, wasn't it? I mean, it stopped in HAV and then maybe in SNN, didn't it? I wonder if the 77E can do MEX-SVO nonstop with f
61 pylon101 : O, even more adventurous: MEX-HAV-GANDER-SHANNON- SVO. Quite a flight! Direct flight SVO-HAV can last up to 14 hours, depending on winds. But it's the
62 YYZALA : Well for the 77E full payload comes to around 5800nm, not including wind. SVO-MEX is 5800nm, but factor in the winds and the hot and high MEX, it bec
63 sofianec : That's exactly what I meant too earlier. Why pick 77E since 77L is more versatile especially if they go for opening/re-opening Latin America and I be
64 BMI727 : That comes out to about 5300NM, which would be borderline as far as LR vs. ER goes considering winds. But since that is the longest route, the -200ER
65 pylon101 : 15,500 reasons per plane make big difference, I would say. South America plans depend on too many factors. The present LOI hardly took those into cons
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